Importance of Cabinet Resonance?

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Okay, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of Cabinet Resonance when I looked at the review of the RBH T-30LSE (AH's Reference speakers).

Home Theater Magazine and Sound & Vision don't mention this Cabinet Resonance spec either.

So just how important is this Cabinet Resonance anyway?
 
Rickster71

Rickster71

Audioholic Spartan
Okay, maybe I missed it, but I didn't see any mention of Cabinet Resonance when I looked at the review of the RBH T-30LSE (AH's Reference speakers).

So just how important is this Cabinet Resonance anyway?
Great question!
I've often wondered the same thing, along with how much of it is really audible.
 
no. 5

no. 5

Audioholic Field Marshall
So just how important is this Cabinet Resonance anyway?
If it's audible, very. :D

Resonances (be it from the cabinet or something else) add coloration to the sound, it is another thing that, to paraphrase Floyd Toole, editorializes the sound you hear, and has a negative effect on persevered sound quality. Furthermore, the ear's threshold for detecting resonances is significantly lowered in environments that are not acoustically 'dead' (i.e. a listening room).

By the way, Stereophile measures cabinet resonance in the tests the perform.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
...has a negative effect on persevered sound quality...
Does it have an adverse effect on the measured frequency response?

For example, the Revel Salon2 has a very flat frequency response (28 Hz - 18 kHz +/- 1 dB - Sound & Vision Magazine). Yet, it has cabinet resonance (Stereophile measurement).

So does the cabinet resonance affect only the perceived sound quality?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Resonances, both from the driver and the cabinet, have been shown to be detrimental to perceived sound quality in numerous perceptual studies. There is one study in specific which summarizes a majority of the previous work as well as repeating these studies and expanding on them:

Toole, E. Floyd.The Modification of Timbre by Resonances: Perception and Measurement. JAES Volume 36 Issue 3 pp. 122-142; March 1988.

As far as audibility is concerned this has been shown to be related to a few factors:

Q of the resonance - High Q resonance is less audible than low Q resonance.

Frequency resonance occurs - Hearing sensitivity varies with frequency. Due to this there are some frequencies where, in certain situations, resonance can be heard even if it is attenuated [relative to playback level] by about 20dB in other cases the resonance can be above the playback level and still be inaudible.

Source material - Different types of recordings or test tones are more or less revealing of resonances. For example, typical pop music will be far less revealing of resonances than a piano solo.

Acoustic environment - Reflections have been shown to increase audibility of resonances [both from the speaker, bad, and the source, good]. So listening to headphones will be less revealing of resonance than listening to a pair of loudspeakers in a typical room.

The article I mentioned goes into specific circumstances for audibility of each of these issues.

So, why is resonance still such a problem and why does its coloration not show up in typical frequency response graphs?

Typical bracing techniques do not attenuate resonance such that it is no longer audible, but at the same time, common measurement techniques do not capture the coloration due to resonances. To properly measure resonance one would have to take multiple far field impulse response measurements at varying angles in an anechoic chamber then using these plots derive a waterfall that would actually show resonances. Now, this is fairly unreasonable to do, so a more simple, less accurate method, would be using an accelerometer attached to the speakers cabinet at various points to at least get an idea of what resonance it does have.

Take, for example, the Primus 360 an all around superb speaker, but it uses typical bracing techniques and has a fairly large radiating surface area [cabinet]:

Please note that Stereophile does not take into account loudspeaker sensitivity when measuring resonance. So, if comparing a loudspeaker with sensitivity 93dB 2.83v/m such as the 360 to a loudspeaker with sensitivity of 90dB 2.83v/m as the 802D the resonance plot of the Primus 360 would need to be dropped 3dB to be compatible to the 802D. Because of this I will note all compared sensitivities above the graph.

[93dB 2.83v/m]



These resonances are not just audible, but would be extremely detrimental to sound quality for nearly all types of source material

The Revel Studio2 [88dB 2.83v/m]:



Not only does this unit is far more extensive bracing than typical, it also uses thicker walls [fairly inefficient, but better than nothing]. As seen, these resonances are far lower than is common in most loudspeakers, but will occasionally be audibly with the right source material.

B&W 802D [90dB 2.83v/m]:



This unit uses an extremely complex bracing matrix as well as a specialized mid range enclosure that is absolutely inert. No audible resonances would be observed. Please note that there must have been some other vibration creating the peak centered at about 50Hz as it is not physically possible for this unit to resonant at this frequency with its internal structure.

Also, while the measurements Stereophile provides are useful, there analysis of them is plainly put, a joke. There is no actual correlation of the resonances to perceptual research, as far as I can tell, but rather if it looks 'good enough', it is or isn't audible depending on the situation.

In the end, with current technology it simply is not feasible for large scale production of inert cabinets to be made while retaining a low market price.
 
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J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
If one adds bracing inside of an existing cabinet, will the volume of air displaced by the bracing material negatively impact the sound?
If not, wouldn't simply adding a few braces to an existing cabinet be a really cost-effective way to get better sound (especially for relatively cheap speakers)?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
If one adds bracing inside of an existing cabinet, will the volume of air displaced by the bracing material negatively impact the sound?
This depends. Ideally it would be ideal to measure the effects of using this volume in some way. Since this is rarely an option I can say that the most common effect of such an action is that the loudspeaker's F3 will be raised minimizing bass response. This is why proper integration of stereo subwoofers is essential - yet it is almost always overlooked.

If not, wouldn't simply adding a few braces to an existing cabinet be a really cost-effective way to get better sound (especially for relatively cheap speakers)?
While addition of bracing can attenuate resonance, it alone is an inefficient method of resonance reduction. Rather, adding a viscoelastic damping agent to the walls and if possible going the extra step in adding a constrain layer to that would greatly decrease resonance. Along side this using a high grade acoustically absorbent material such as OC705/8lb mineral board would minimize another type of resonance [driver back waves] again at the cost of low frequency response. It should also be noted that proper use of such acoustic material can effectively make the driver act as if it is in an infinite baffle situation causing the cabinet to loose its ability to resonate [different than cabinet resonance] as its intended alignment. If this occurs equalization can be a solution or use of less damping material can be an option.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
Excellent response Andrew. Thanks.

I had always thought that cabinet resonance would show up in distortion measurements. While this would not tell you specifically how cabinet resonance might affect sound, it would still show up indirectly. Is this incorrect?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
Excellent response Andrew. Thanks.

I had always thought that cabinet resonance would show up in distortion measurements. While this would not tell you specifically how cabinet resonance might affect sound, it would still show up indirectly. Is this incorrect?
Cabinet resonance and something like THD are separate issues that need to be measured differently.

As far as what resonance sounds like it is typically perceived as a 'smearing' of sound that reduces clarity.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I wonder why Audioholics, Home Theater Magazine, and Sound & Vision Magazine don't even bother to measure cabinet resonance?
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
I think its a little esoteric for most people. Heck, I bet room interactions have a much greater effect on sound than cabinet resonance for well constricted mass market speakers and thats beyond what many people want to know about.
 
J

Joe Schmoe

Audioholic Ninja
It seems logical that the audible effect of cabinet resonance would increase with loudness, reaching a maximum when the speakers are driven near their limits. Is this correct?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
It seems logical that the audible effect of cabinet resonance would increase with loudness, reaching a maximum when the speakers are driven near their limits. Is this correct?
As the playback level of the loudspeaker is increased the resonance of the loudspeaker increases in the same fashion. This means that resonance will be audible at all playback levels. A simplified example: if a loudspeaker resonates at -10dB from the primary signal at frequency XHz it will resonate at -10dB if the primary signal is 70dB, 90dB or 100dB at this frequency X. All such cases will be equally audible.

For this reason resonance audibility thresholds have been determined with relation to the main signal. Such that if playback is XdB the threshold will be -YdB. This method effectively eliminates varying loudness issues.
 
D

D.R. Payne

Audioholic
Fascinating thread guys. A couple of observations/questions:

1) Freq response is typically measured by the manufacturers in an anechoic chamber. Only the resonance that is on axis is likely to hit the measurement mic since all other directions lead off into wedges that will completely absorb frequencies down to {whatever the chamber absorbs using 1/4 wavelength 7 lenght of the wedges}. In your room that energy is probably not being absorbed and gets out into the room? Which leads to #2:

2) Does anyone know if research has been done on the Phase of the sound created by these vibrations? Is it just audible as distortion or could it also potentially have a constructive/destructive affect on direct sound? Since even the flimsiest cabinet is not nearly as flexible as driver material, I'm assuming there are limited frequency ranges the cabinet could resonate at?
 
avaserfi

avaserfi

Audioholic Ninja
1) Freq response is typically measured by the manufacturers in an anechoic chamber. Only the resonance that is on axis is likely to hit the measurement mic since all other directions lead off into wedges that will completely absorb frequencies down to {whatever the chamber absorbs using 1/4 wavelength 7 lenght of the wedges}. In your room that energy is probably not being absorbed and gets out into the room?
Simply measuring the on axis response in an anechoic chamber will not reveal any cabinet resonances - methods for measuring cabinet resonance are outlined in post #5. Also, as previously mentioned in this same post, resonance audibility is increased in reverberant environments, so yes a listening room would yield more audible resonances than an anechoic chamber.

Does anyone know if research has been done on the Phase of the sound created by these vibrations? Is it just audible as distortion or could it also potentially have a constructive/destructive affect on direct sound? Since even the flimsiest cabinet is not nearly as flexible as driver material, I'm assuming there are limited frequency ranges the cabinet could resonate at?
While I am not aware of any research that is focuses on the phase of these resonances, I expect this so because this would be a non-issue. This is due to the dispersion pattern of resonances, their magnitude and their general nature. As far as resonance goes, it does have a large negative effect on perceived sound quality regardless of listening environment, as previously mentioned.

The most common frequencies for which loudspeakers resonant seem to be from 150Hz - 1000Hz, but there are, of course, outliers.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
This is a very interesting thread. Thanks for your fine contributions, Andrew.

This is an example of cabinetry that was built to be as resonance free as possible...from Aerial Acoustics. You can see from the cut-away picture the lengths to which they went to fight this form of distortion. Two inch MDF walls, isolation chambers, rigid bracing, etc. have provided an almost inert cabinet setup.


And here is the result of AA's effort. This is from Stereophile. Examining the panels' vibrational behavior of an Aerial model 7B (front right in above picture) with a simple plastic-tape accelerometer revealed some resonance modes, but these were pushed high in frequency by the bracing. The figure below is a waterfall plot calculated from the accelerometer's output when it was fastened to the cabinet sidewall 12" from the floor. A single mode can be seen at 563Hz, and could be found on all surfaces. However, the fact that it is both high in frequency and low in level means that its subjective effect will be minimal.

This kind of over-built construction design is one reason why some of the better speakers also cost more.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai


This kind of over-built construction design is one reason why some of the better speakers also cost more.
Wow those are heavily braced cabinets. I see that even the Model 5B which is their cheapest speaker has very extensive bracing and uncommon for a speaker in it's price range.

How are you liking your 7B's? I have been reading your posts on AVS and it seems that you are not as happy with them as you had hoped you would be. You thinking of going for a pair of Salk speakers now?
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Wow those are heavily braced cabinets. I see that even the Model 5B which is their cheapest speaker has very extensive bracing and uncommon for a speaker in it's price range.

How are you liking your 7B's? I have been reading your posts on AVS and it seems that you are not as happy with them as you had hoped you would be. You thinking of going for a pair of Salk speakers now?
Ah, Gus. I see you've been practicing mind reading, again! ;) Those Aerials are built robustly, aren't they?

Yep, I am intrigued by the Salk HT3's. Very. Of course it doesn't help that I haven't heard them. My only complaint with the Aerials is that they are just a tad laid back. I prefer a bit more sizzle in the top end. But that's my personal taste talking. (I don't like blondes so much, either, lol.) Overall, I really like the Aerials for their dynamics, clarity, and (dare I say it???? :eek:) accuracy. I also could be experiencing some under-powering of the 7B's using only my Yammie RX-V2500. They're quite nice speakers. And they'd better be, because it will be a couple of hundred years before I can afford some new HT3's to try out.

Just to keep this post a bit on topic...I'll say that I believe I can clearly hear cabinet resonance in a number of loudspeakers I've auditioned. Some of them are a bit pricey, too. It's the primary distraction that I experience in speaker performance...and one that turned me toward the Aerials in the first place (when I was ready to put the cash down on some Par....cough...cough...). :)
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Ah, Gus. I see you've been practicing mind reading, again! ;) Those Aerials are built robustly, aren't they?

Yep, I am intrigued by the Salk HT3's. Very. Of course it doesn't help that I haven't heard them. My only complaint with the Aerials is that they are just a tad laid back. I prefer a bit more sizzle in the top end. But that's my personal taste talking. (I don't like blondes so much, either, lol.) Overall, I really like the Aerials for their dynamics, clarity, and (dare I say it???? :eek:) accuracy. I also could be experiencing some under-powering of the 7B's using only my Yammie RX-V2500. They're quite nice speakers. And they'd better be, because it will be a couple of hundred years before I can afford some new HT3's to try out.

Just to keep this post a bit on topic...I'll say that I believe I can clearly hear cabinet resonance in a number of loudspeakers I've auditioned. Some of them are a bit pricey, too. It's the primary distraction that I experience in speaker performance...and one that turned me toward the Aerials in the first place (when I was ready to put the cash down on some Par....cough...cough...). :)
I say try out an external amp before switching speakers. I have encountered speakers before that completely opened up in the midrange when pushing a lot of power through them. I used to have a pair of Epos ELS-3 that exhibited exactly what you are describing. The more power you put through them the more the midrange opened up and imaging increased.

From Aerial's specs you can see that their drivers are very dynamic in power rating so they can take some juice. Maybe try out the Yamaha P3500S if you don't want to break the bank to see if the midrange opens up.
 
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