If 2 subs are good, and 4 even better, what do you call 9?

KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
What was your criteria for selecting these models for review?
 
gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
What was your criteria for selecting these models for review?
Yes i'd like to know how you go about selecting the brands/models. One thing I would like is that you review/demo the usual brands like HSU, SVS, and compare to the less well known brands that you normally review like the Rumba 12 which looks like a great subwoofer but how does it compare to the other $500-650 subwoofers? Epik Legend, SVS SB12 NSD, HSU VTF 2, Axiom EP175 ect... I think majority of people research by price more so than sealed only or ported only. So I think they are all in competition with each other even though they use different designs.

It would also be useful if you had a bench mark sub to judge those others against. One for sealed and one for ported to get some kind of idea of performance and where you opinion comes from. It doesn't have to be uber expensive or dirt cheap but something that hits the sweet spot for price performance in your opinion and judge the others off that.
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
Here's where we stand as of now...

Front Row (left to right)
1: RSL SpeedWoofer 10
2: Simply Sound Audio Rumba 12
3:
4: Atlantic Technology 444SB
5: Source Loudspeaker HVS 10

Back Row (left to right)
1:
2:
3: SpeakerCraft V12
4: PowerSound Audio XS15

The AH guys have gotten more of them then any other forum! Only three left now. Any other ideas?
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
Yes i'd like to know how you go about selecting the brands/models. One thing I would like is that you review/demo the usual brands like HSU, SVS, and compare to the less well known brands that you normally review like the Rumba 12 which looks like a great subwoofer but how does it compare to the other $500-650 subwoofers? Epik Legend, SVS SB12 NSD, HSU VTF 2, Axiom EP175 ect... I think majority of people research by price more so than sealed only or ported only. So I think they are all in competition with each other even though they use different designs.
Actually, not reviewing the usual suspects is by design.

Ask a question on the forum about virtually any SVS, HSU, Rythmik, etc. sub and you'll get 50 owners responding. You can find a multitude of reviews on just about all of them as well. I didn't feel there was anything I could contribute to that situation -- they were all well known commodities -- so when I set out on this journey I asked myself "where can I provide value"? The answer? Unknown, or little known, companies.

When I started down this path it was as an independent nobody (which really hasn't changed, to be quite honest). What established company wants to send a subwoofer to get reviewed by someone like that? None of them, as it turns out, so I bought the first few units myself, did the reviews and then sold them. Cost me a couple of bucks but there was a method to my madness; now I had something "published" that I could point to when asking a company for a review unit. That got my foot in the door, so to speak, and gave me some momentum. At least enough for the obscure companies, who couldn't get anyone to even consider doing a review of their subwoofers. Then a funny thing happened because of that momentum; it seems I unwittingly tapped into a need that the industry wasn't fulfilling, and things started to pick up at a breakneck pace (which goes a long way towards explaining how I ended up with so many subwoofers waiting to be reviewed ;)).

There's a whole lot more to my story, but cutting to the chase... now I actually get review units from some of the mainstream players in the industry. Companies like Atlantic Technology and PSA are more then happy to let me do a review for them. Did you know I was the first person to get a PSA XS15 to evaluate? I suspect this will come across as egomaniacal, but I'm pretty d@mn proud of that. A year ago was when I published my first review, now I have units lined up and companies asking me to do reviews. And you should see some of the others I'm working on! There are a few pretty darn impressive achievements in amongst them, assuming I can pull it off of course.

BTW... Axiom is among the companies that told me "thanks, but no thanks". Others who told me the same thing, or simply never responded to my requests, include Fluance, Home Theater Direct, Sonance, Phil Jones Pure Sound and James Loudspeaker (among others).



It would also be useful if you had a bench mark sub to judge those others against. One for sealed and one for ported to get some kind of idea of performance and where you opinion comes from. It doesn't have to be uber expensive or dirt cheap but something that hits the sweet spot for price performance in your opinion and judge the others off that.
That's not a bad idea, but the trouble is I simply haven't found the "holy grail" of subwoofers yet. At least not by my interpretation.

For me, clarity, dynamics and precision are absolutely paramount. Meaning more then likely it will have to be acoustic suspension. Relatively small is mandatory as well -- say, 18" squared. It must have exquisite build quality, and be able to hit 20Hz solidly. SPL's are not a factor for me, because I don't listen very loud. It needs to have good output capability, but 110dB @ 20Hz is just not vital for me.

An example would be something like the James Loudspeaker EMB1200, which seems ideal for me. I almost secured one for review, but alas it fell through. Initially the person I was dealing with showed great enthusiasm for me doing a review, but that waned as time went on. Soon he almost completely stopped repling to my emails, and when he did it was only terse responses, so I backed off.

However, not having a reference sub yet doesn't necessarily mean I don't have a reference point. All of my reviews -- every single one -- has been done with the price of the unit in mind. What I would consider excellent response from a $400 sub would simply be mediocre if I got the same from an $800 unit. Price is somewhat relative of course, but at this point I think I have a fairly good understanding of what someone's subwoofer dollar should buy, so all of my reviews are weighted accordingly. Not an exact science, but at least it's somewhat of a benchmark for me to go by.

Hopefully I will have a reference subwoofer to use as a comparison, but sadly I have yet to find it. Someday perhaps...
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
How about a hint to get you going?

I may have already reviewed one of the remaining unidentified units. ;)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Neat project!
So, how about a link to the reviews you have done. I think it is kosher to put it in your sig.
I seriously believe you need a reference point (or more than 1). Say you complete the reviews for what you currently have by Christmas, will you really remember what a sub you heard in September sounded like if you haven't heard it in 3 months? Retaining the "best" sub for a price point will allow you to competently say if and when another sub out-performs it (or not).
Do you have a means to get measurements?
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
So, how about a link to the reviews you have done. I think it is kosher to put it in your sig.
Unfortunately, because of the 10K post size limit on AH -- along with only being able to upload 1 meg of pic's -- most of the reviews aren't here. You can find the majority of what I've done in the past year at this link. I use the same screen name their.
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Actually, not reviewing the usual suspects is by design.

Ask a question on the forum about virtually any SVS, HSU, Rythmik, etc. sub and you'll get 50 owners responding. You can find a multitude of reviews on just about all of them as well. I didn't feel there was anything I could contribute to that situation -- they were all well known commodities -- so when I set out on this journey I asked myself "where can I provide value"? The answer? Unknown, or little known, companies.

When I started down this path it was as an independent nobody (which really hasn't changed, to be quite honest). What established company wants to send a subwoofer to get reviewed by someone like that? None of them, as it turns out, so I bought the first few units myself, did the reviews and then sold them. Cost me a couple of bucks but there was a method to my madness; now I had something "published" that I could point to when asking a company for a review unit. That got my foot in the door, so to speak, and gave me some momentum. At least enough for the obscure companies, who couldn't get anyone to even consider doing a review of their subwoofers. Then a funny thing happened because of that momentum; it seems I unwittingly tapped into a need that the industry wasn't fulfilling, and things started to pick up at a breakneck pace (which goes a long way towards explaining how I ended up with so many subwoofers waiting to be reviewed ;)).

There's a whole lot more to my story, but cutting to the chase... now I actually get review units from some of the mainstream players in the industry. Companies like Atlantic Technology and PSA are more then happy to let me do a review for them. Did you know I was the first person to get a PSA XS15 to evaluate? I suspect this will come across as egomaniacal, but I'm pretty d@mn proud of that. A year ago was when I published my first review, now I have units lined up and companies asking me to do reviews. And you should see some of the others I'm working on! There are a few pretty darn impressive achievements in amongst them, assuming I can pull it off of course.

BTW... Axiom is among the companies that told me "thanks, but no thanks". Others who told me the same thing, or simply never responded to my requests, include Fluance, Home Theater Direct, Sonance, Phil Jones Pure Sound and James Loudspeaker (among others).





That's not a bad idea, but the trouble is I simply haven't found the "holy grail" of subwoofers yet. At least not by my interpretation.

For me, clarity, dynamics and precision are absolutely paramount. Meaning more then likely it will have to be acoustic suspension. Relatively small is mandatory as well -- say, 18" squared. It must have exquisite build quality, and be able to hit 20Hz solidly. SPL's are not a factor for me, because I don't listen very loud. It needs to have good output capability, but 110dB @ 20Hz is just not vital for me.

An example would be something like the James Loudspeaker EMB1200, which seems ideal for me. I almost secured one for review, but alas it fell through. Initially the person I was dealing with showed great enthusiasm for me doing a review, but that waned as time went on. Soon he almost completely stopped repling to my emails, and when he did it was only terse responses, so I backed off.

However, not having a reference sub yet doesn't necessarily mean I don't have a reference point. All of my reviews -- every single one -- has been done with the price of the unit in mind. What I would consider excellent response from a $400 sub would simply be mediocre if I got the same from an $800 unit. Price is somewhat relative of course, but at this point I think I have a fairly good understanding of what someone's subwoofer dollar should buy, so all of my reviews are weighted accordingly. Not an exact science, but at least it's somewhat of a benchmark for me to go by.

Hopefully I will have a reference subwoofer to use as a comparison, but sadly I have yet to find it. Someday perhaps...
You got to be good at what you're doing to get a sub from Source Technologies that is unusual. I've got to hand it to you. What you see on his website is nothing, he makes some very custom high end speaker systems, 100k and up, has a very special clientele. Ask him to send you a pair of these, they might just be the holy grail you're looking for. BTW how many nailed that sub on your other forums.
 
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gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
Actually, not reviewing the usual suspects is by design.

Ask a question on the forum about virtually any SVS, HSU, Rythmik, etc. sub and you'll get 50 owners responding. You can find a multitude of reviews on just about all of them as well. I didn't feel there was anything I could contribute to that situation -- they were all well known commodities -- so when I set out on this journey I asked myself "where can I provide value"? The answer? Unknown, or little known, companies.
My thinking was that you review the mainstream models so when someone asks "Hey how does that Rumba 12 compare to the Epik Legend or Rythmik F12 or SVS SB12 NSD." You could give a comparison alittle better.

BTW... Axiom is among the companies that told me "thanks, but no thanks".
That doesn't surprise me at all. I think the hate any kind of review that would not read as a marketing advertisment. I don't think they have much confidence in there subwoofers compared to the new revised products that have been released the last several years.
 
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gtpsuper24

gtpsuper24

Full Audioholic
You got to be good at what you're doing to get a sub from Source Technologies that is unusual. I've got to hand it to you. What you see on his website is nothing, he makes some very custom high end speaker systems, 100k and up, has a very special clientele. Ask him to send you a pair of these, they might just be the holy grail you're looking for. BTW how many nailed that sub on your other forums.
How are those Source Tech subs? Judging by the specs and the price they don't seem like they are worth anywhere near the asking price.
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
You got to be good at what you're doing to get a sub from Source Technologies that is unusual. I've got to hand it to you.
Thanks. I'm not necessarily sure I was all that "good" in order to get something from Source, but I certainly needed to be tenacious. Let's just say that John and timelines are not always on speaking terms. :p

I actually wanted to get some of the 1.5's and the as-yet-unreleased CC1 center for myself, but the wait for the CC1 became perpetual; it was originally supposed to be released in April, and after several missed deadlines the new date is now the end of September. Unfortunately, I grew frustrated waiting so I bought something else.


Ask him to send you a pair of these, they might just be the holy grail you're looking for. BTW how many nailed that sub on your other forums.
That sub is too tall for my liking, but the one you have with the PR looks awfully intriguing. What are the spec's (driver size, amp, dimensions, etc) on it?
 
walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks. I'm not necessarily sure I was all that "good" in order to get something from Source, but I certainly needed to be tenacious. Let's just say that John and timelines are not always on speaking terms. :p

I actually wanted to get some of the 1.5's and the as-yet-unreleased CC1 center for myself, but the wait for the CC1 became perpetual; it was originally supposed to be released in April, and after several missed deadlines the new date is now the end of September. Unfortunately, I grew frustrated waiting so I bought something else.




That sub is too tall for my liking, but the one you have with the PR looks awfully intriguing. What are the spec's (driver size, amp, dimensions, etc) on it?
Size is 15" high-16" wide and 15" deep. On the specs, since I can't find the sheet all I know it goes down to 18. Driver size is 12"
passive radiator is a Peerlees 12" and amp is the Keiga 1000 watts. HIFI-ALTERNATIVE.COM Keiga KGND52100 (1000 Watt) Digital Plate Amplifier
Handmade in US and it cost me 1k about 8+ some years ago. I think it's a great sub. I have been very happy with it.
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
Size is 15" high-16" wide and 15" deep. On the specs, since I can't find the sheet all I know it goes down to 18. Driver size is 12". passive radiator is a Peerlees 12" and amp is the Keiga 1000 watts. Handmade in US and it cost me 1k about 8+ some years ago. I think it's a great sub. I have been very happy with it.
That driver looks killer! It certainly appears to be something that might have been good for my reference system; small, powerful and can play deep.
 
theJman

theJman

Audioholic Chief
Since it appears as though the guesses have ceased, perhaps it's time I disclose what the 9 subwoofers are. So, here they are...

Front Row (left to right)
1: RSL SpeedWoofer 10
2: Simply Sound Audio Rumba 12
3: Phase Technology WL-12
4: Atlantic Technology 444SB
5: Source Loudspeaker HVS 10

Back Row (left to right)
1: XTZ W12.16
2: EbenLee Audio ELA-4
3: SpeakerCraft V12
4: PowerSound Audio XS15
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Is the Rumba staying or going? I actually bought a Pierce Audio driver based on the review of that sub. Hopefully mine performs as well as the rumba.
 
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