I have a speaker cable length question.

[Daniel Durack]

I've decide to go with Kimber Kable 8PR or 8VS. Because of the room constraints, I will need an 10 foot piece and a 20 foot piece. The guy at Kimber felt that this would not be an issue. The guy at AudioAdvisor informed me that I will ruin my sound stage and cause something that he called "wave ring". (I've been unable to find a definition for this term). I'm willing to buy 2-20' cables, but certainly not if it's unnecessary.
I have a 25W tube amplifier from Decware. My speakers are Decware Transmission line speakers at 4 ohms impedance and 94db efficiency.

Quality sound within human hearing range is important to me.

What's real and what's not?

Dan

 

[ParadigmDawg]

The length isn't going to matter at all and don't spend that much money on speaker wire.

 

[slipperybidness]

Wow, just WOW!!!

1) You are wasting $ on Kimber. If you want audio luxury jewelry, then go for it. If you want better sound, then spend the $ somewhere that will be an improvement, and not the snake oil that you are headed towards.

2) The difference in length will not make a difference to the sound, assuming that the AWG is sufficient for the power that it needs to transmit.

3) The guy at Audio Advisor was an idiot.

4) Your tube amp has high levels of THD (as compared to any solid state amp). In the big picture, it's pretty silly to be worried about some possible,maybe, not really, improvement due to speaker wires!

5) If you want a true improvement, buy a modern solid state amp, add a subwoofer, or add room acoustic treatments.

 

[Daniel Durack]

Interesting point, thank you.
I did settle on Kimber Kable due to the strong recommendation of the audio engineers who run, (I assume) this site. It is possible that I've misinterpreted the data on there cable tests. It would not be the first time for me.
The debate over solid state verses tube type is an old one of which I'm familiar. Both have their merits. I have owned both. At the end of the day, I went with what sounded best to my ears. I very much enjoy the sound of music reproduced with tubes over solid state.

Do you have a recommendation for an alternative cable?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I recommend lamp cord from local home improvement store. it's 12 AWG and I will match vs Kimber or AudioQuest or any other Audiophoolery brand any day.

As for tube amp - tube amp does in fact changes audio significantly, but some do in fact like this effect.
As me I agree with slippery, I would rather have accurate solid amplification and if "warm" of tubes sound added in DSP if I would ever wanted to do such thing.

It's your Speakers (including sub) and room treatments which will make biggest difference. Not the amp and certainly not cables.

As for measuring speaker cables - even the crappiest 12awg will do just fine for runs under about 100ft. 10awg for longer runs. Oxygen free copper - is purely nonsense. Skin effect does exist but it's effect for high level signal as in speaker cable is insignificant

 

[markw]

I gotta say, I'm quote disappointed in the response you got from Audio Advisor. Previously, I had a lot of respect for them.

Shame on you, Audio Advisor.

 

[slipperybidness]

I gotta say, I'm quote disappointed in the response you got from Audio Advisor. Previously, I had a lot of respect for them.

Shame on you, Audio Advisor.

If you can't impress them with your knowledge, then confuse them with your BS!

Yeah, I like AA. Perhaps this was a one off idiot.

 

[tyhjaarpa]

No point to pay hundreds for cables when you can get your cables for dozen. Any basic cable will do just as fine as long as it is thick enough. And not much to worry with those lengths.

 

[Swerd]

To directly answer the OP's original question, the different lengths of the speakers cables will have no audible effect at all on a speaker's sound. This would be true for any amp and speaker.

A simple comparison of the speed of an electronic signal in a wire, roughly half the speed of light in a vacuum, and the speed of sound through air should convince anyone that nothing audible could happen with different wire lengths. Not until the wire lengths differ by several thousand miles.

I've never heard the term "wave ring", and I doubt if anyone else has. It is probably nonsense. Shame on AudioAdvisor.

If you are interested in sound quality, please don't waste money on high-priced copper speaker wires, such as Kimber.

 

[Daniel Durack]

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate your interest. Overwhelmingly, I get the impression that 12 Ga. zip cord is the way to go.

I'm very interested in your impressions of the following link to a review and test that was conducted by this website's audio engineers.

I'm a huge fan of making evidence based decisions. Does anyone have a link or know of a study that supports the 12Ga zip cord conclusion?

The conclusion of the following review is what sent me on this path.

(It seems that I'm too new here to post links. It can be found under gadget reviews of this site.)

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm

 

[ParadigmDawg]

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/debunking-the-myth-of-speaker-cable-resonance

And I am a sucker for giant jumper-cable looking speaker cable.

But I paid like $34 for it.

 

[gene]

This is the review you're likely referring to:
http://www.audioholics.com/gadget-reviews/kimber-kable-8pr

I vaguely remember your email but I don't recall ever stating you would experience better fidelity from this cable over regular 10/12AWG cables. I recall saying go for it if you want something that measures better than standard zip cord, will do no harm to the signal, and will dress up your system.

Also regarding cable length differences:
See: http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-length-differences-do-they-matter

 

[Daniel Durack]

Thank you for the links! I am familiar with the roger-russell link. I found it to be very interesting and informative.

The myth of resonance link is new to me. I'll be spending some time with it tonight.

P.S. Nice lookin cables.

 

[mtrycrafts]

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/debunking-the-myth-of-speaker-cable-resonance

And I am a sucker for giant jumper-cable looking speaker cable.

But I paid like $34 for it.

Well, we all have our weaknesses, don't we.

 

[Daniel Durack]

Hi Gene!

I didn't expect to run into you. I've not emailed you before. This is my first experience on this site. In the previous post I was referring to my interpretation of your review of Kimber Kable.
So I should hear no difference between Kimber or Blue Jeans and 12Ga. zip cord?

The Utube video and written reviews led be to believe that better speaker cable will make a difference.

 

[gene]

Hi Gene!

I didn't expect to run into you. I've not emailed you before. This is my first experience on this site. In the previous post I was referring to my interpretation of your review of Kimber Kable.
So I should hear no difference between Kimber or Blue Jeans and 12Ga. zip cord?

The Utube video and written reviews led be to believe that better speaker cable will make a difference.

Audible differences are hard to snuff out in controlled listening tests. It's very easy to measure a difference but not so much to hear a difference when dealing with cables.

Focus first on building a quality system with proper speaker placement and setup. Then work on the room acoustics. Only when all of that is settled, consider playing with cables if you want to dress up your system.

I like low-mid priced kimber products b/c they measure well, built well and look nice. But they won't likely make the midrange more chocolatey than standard 10 AWG cable despite what anyone says.

Please also read our Speaker Cable Gauge Guideline:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-cable-gauge

 

[Daniel Durack]

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. And, thank you Gene for clarifying this for me. But most of all I must thank the dude at Audio Advisor for making up the term "wave ring". That sent me on a quest to better educate myself. If it wasn't for him, and of course the good people here, I would have dropped some serious cash on speaker cable.

I'd post a picture of my system but you'll make fun of my tubes. ;-P

Dan

 

[gene]

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. And, thank you Gene for clarifying this for me. But most of all I must thank the dude at Audio Advisor for making up the term "wave ring". That sent me on a quest to better educate myself. If it wasn't for him, and of course the good people here, I would have dropped some serious cash on speaker cable.

I'd post a picture of my system but you'll make fun of my tubes. ;-P

Dan

"Wave ring" is a new one to me

Please post your gear. WE have a special Pros/Joe's area to show off your stuff.

Also we have over 42k active subscribers on our FB page that are two-channel audioholics and love vintage stuff. See: www.facebook.com/audioholics

 

[slipperybidness]

Thank you everyone for your input and advice. And, thank you Gene for clarifying this for me. But most of all I must thank the dude at Audio Advisor for making up the term "wave ring". That sent me on a quest to better educate myself. If it wasn't for him, and of course the good people here, I would have dropped some serious cash on speaker cable.

I'd post a picture of my system but you'll make fun of my tubes. ;-P

Dan

Hey now, I might have ripped on your tubes and said go SS......but I also have a Dynaco ST-70 Clone that I built!

I was simply pointing out how silly it is to go with the inferior tubes and then fret over what wires to get. If you step back and think about it, I think you will see my point!

I just want to be sure that any tube person understands that tubes are inferior to SS in every metric. If you understand that and still want tubes or prefer tubes, go for it!

I see no reason that SS and Tubes can't coexist in this hobby, just realize that SS is the better choice from any technical standpoint!