Holy crap!! What awesome posts!
Ok, I got the main differences about the ability to play down to 20 and the output levels. Let me ask a few more questions from a different angle. The fact that I'm asking such questions what show my ignorance, but that's OK.
Forget total output levels as the key comparison criteria for a moment. Which sub is going to give me clear definition and separation of the bass line and bass drum when played simultaneously? Which sub is going to keep in time with the wobble bass in dubstep? Which sub can keep up Squarepusher's inhumanly fast bass guitar skills? Not to forget movies-which sub is going make explosions feel like they are actually happening? Which sub is going to make the cool sound effects in Transformer movies a new experience?
Which sun will actually make a recorded Taiko drum sound authentic?
By the way, as I not only listen to dubstep but produce it as a hobby, the DSP protection of the SVS is very appealing.
hoo-boy! Well, I gotta tell ya, now you're really talking my language! But you're also getting into a tricky bit of territory. When you're talking about really wanting to clearly delineate and separate the bass line from the bass drum. When you're talking about super fast bass guitar and authentic sounding Taiko drums. I feel that I have to warn you, you're not talking about easy stuff there! You ARE talking about the kind of stuff that I personally listen for in bass. The stuff that I LOVE and that I crave. Unfortunately, it's also the stuff that forces me to look past that $1000-ish price point
Believe me, if there were a way to get it all for a lower price, I'd be ALL OVER it! I'm in no rush to increase the price tag of stuff and in no rush to go telling people to spend considerably more money unless it's absolutely necessary! But the kind of detail and depth, realism and quality of bass that you're describing - it genuinely is not easy to reproduce, and I suspect you already sort of know that
If you're in a SMALL room - and I'm talking like a mixing studio here, not even a normal living room, let alone a dubbing stage - then a really high quality sealed sub in the vein of one of Rythmik's sealed subs or SVSound's SB13-Plus DSP or HSU's ULS-15 (all of which come in at or over $1000 by the way) is in order. If you've got the funds and can step up to a JL Audio Fathom, then that's the sort of thing you'd be after.
When you get to a larger room size though - especially if you have openings to other rooms - you run into that problem of sealed subs starting their more shallow roll-off up around 40Hz. It's just so much about the interaction between the sub(s) and the room. But when you see the decay measurements, and you get those great, super fast response times where there's just no ringing and no stored energy coming from the sub - regardless of the frequency - then you sort of start wishing that you were designing your room around your sub, rather than trying to fit a sub into your room
The thing is, when you really "want it all" - the way that you're describing - well, that's when I just keep coming back to the SVSound PB/PC13-Ultra. The thing is just SO darn clean. And in a smaller room, you even have the option to plug all of its ports and run it as a sealed sub. You lose considerable output all the way up its frequency response, but if you're in a small room that doesn't need all of that output, it's a very viable option. You can see from
Audioholics' measurements that the group delay and decay of energy when the signal stops is very low no matter how you run the PB13-Ultra DSP. But when you put it in sealed mode, the delay just becomes vanishingly low.
It's a case where you've just got a magnificent driver and amp. It's sort of that simple. It's just fantastic control over the movement of the driver that ultimately creates the best transient response. And it's the transient response that creates the delineation and separation between instruments and notes. You combine that with ridiculously low distortion and you have what you're looking for! It's just that it costs $1700 for the cylinder or $2000 for the box. What folks
should realize is just how inexpensive that is for this kind of performance. It's, like, crazy cheap for what you're getting (and includes shipping no less
) But it is NOT cheap just in a general sense. It's $2000. But man-oh-man, you honestly do get your money's worth if you're the sort of person who can appreciate nuance and detail in bass.
Personally, I just find it difficult to come down from there. To be perfectly honest, when you spend less on a Plus model or a Rythmik FV15HP (which performance wise is really neck-and-neck with the SVSound ported Plus subs) you barely give up anything - but you do give up just a little
something It's so hard to say that the Ultra is worth hundreds of dollars more when it really is so close. But it's just that last, tiny bit, you know? It's that nth degree. And when you're coming at it from the other direction, you start saying to yourself, "well, it's only a few hundred more", y'know?
The PC13-Ultra DSP cylinder makes it especially difficult to "settle" for even just a tiny bit less. At $1700, you start thinking "it's only $400 more than the PC12-Plus, only $350 more than the PB12-Plus, only $380 more than the Rythmik FV15HP once you include shipping".
The key though is your room. Because if your room + subwoofer combo is right, a great sealed subwoofer can give you what you're after for a lower price.
So here's my advice - get on the phone and talk with the folks at SVSound, Rythmik and HSU. You'll find helpful people at all three of those companies and folks who really know their stuff. They'll talk with you about your room, your setup, your tastes in music, what you're going to be using this sub for and which of their subs is going to get you to where you want to be with your bass!
But I've gotta warn you, I don't think you're going to find quite what you're looking for for under $1000.
If you've got some way of getting to $1700 for a PC13-Ultra DSP cylinder, then you can certainly get yourself reference level 110+ dB output at and below 20Hz with 5% or lower distortion and minimal group delay - and nothing under $1700 is going to equal that - plain and simple. But if your room and setup allows, a great sealed sub could definitely work for you. Give those companies a call. Then come back here to talk about what they said! But hopefully understand that nobody can perform magic. It does legitimately take more expensive parts and better design to get the kind of performance that you're describing. So if SVSound, Rythmik and HSU are pointing you towards $1000+ subs, they're not lying just to try to get you to spend more money with them. It genuinely does cost more sometimes to get what you really want. And what you're describing? It's the sort of bass that I want too! And for me, I just find it hard to "accept" anything less than an SVS Ultra these days
