How to make a 7.1.4 set up work in a small room?

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Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
at least erins data seems good to me:

what exactly would be the benfit of the q350c for my use case when i dont really need the dynasmic range or output? i want to leran :)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
at least erins data seems good to me:

what exactly would be the benfit of the q350c for my use case when i dont really need the dynasmic range or output? i want to leran :)
Well basically future proofing. In the event you move the system, you may be restricted by the smaller speaker. I’m a fan of larger more sensitive speakers, but my towers, for example with 12” woofers wouldn’t work in your space. I guess I just don’t like the lowest, or smallest, or bare minimum. The 350’s aren’t super capable in dynamics either, but for a smaller scale system would be great.
 
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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
thanks a lot for your advice. sounds very reasonable and considerate to me.

i am located in germany. i am getting used to the thought to rather prioritize quality over quantity and as you say buy quality gear step by step. the kef q150 seem very appealing to me. can you recommend any other decent coaxial speakers other than the kef?

i think i would rather prefer to stay with the slimmer, less expensive q150.
The main place to upgrade your Speaker choice is the Mains, or L/R channel. Center can also be quite demanding. These are where you want to focus your budget.
KEF is highly respected and while the Q series hasn't seen an upgrade in a bit, I listened to the Flagship Q950 many years ago and was reasonably impressed. Obviously, that is a large floor standing design vs a bookshelf, but the basic qualities are there throughout the lineup.

I'm not going to be much help recommending options to you in the European market. Other than being familiar with some of the brands, there is a big difference in what might be available internationally vs a smaller company producing for the local market.
Here in the US, there are many Internet Direct options that you likely wouldn't consider due to cost of shipping to you. The Hsu CCB-8 is a great example! ;)

Of the European designers I'm aware of... Canton, Wharfdale, Monitor Audio, KEF, ELAC, Dali, Sonos Faber, XTZ... I can't say that any will really compete against KEF in a small bookshelf design.
You may find somebody offering decent on-wall Speakers similar to what I suggested as a potential option from Monolith, or the earlier mentioned Triads (another smaller US designer).

Regardless, going back to the recommendation that may make the most sense for cost and availability, I like the Q350 as it will afford better power handling and dynamic capabilities against its smaller brethren. Both are rear-ported designs and will benefit from being away from the wall a little, even though it looks like it may come with a bracket already attached which will put it very close to the wall.
This becomes a matter of trial and error for you as we cannot predict in-room performance. ;) Every room is different, so the behavior of that Speaker in your room would be different from me setting it up in a similar sized room...

Still, if you are liking the KEF options, look hard at their Center also. These will vastly outperform many other options in the market. In a small room, KEF will also greatly outperform any of the Polk's you mentioned.

End of the day, it will be about your preferences. It is your room, your ears, your ducats! But being smart about doing it can give you a much better system for the long haul then rushing it and getting it wrong.
 
G

Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
I see! would depent on the deal i get.

i have seen they have these atmos speaker q50a. they would really help to declutter the front wall when used as heights. can you recommend those type of speakers as heights or are they in general a bad idea perfomance wise and a waist of money? (they cost 600 a pair...)
1700423983887.png
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
what exactly would be the benfit of the q350c for my use case when i dont really need the dynasmic range or output? i want to leran :)
For the mains, you'd be surprised. ;) Even a small increase can make a significant improvement.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
I see! would depent on the deal i get.

i have seen theyx have these atmos speaker q50a. they would really help to declutter the front wall when used as heights. can you recommend those type of speakers as heights or are they in general a bad idea perfomance wise and a waist of money? (they cost 600 a pair...)
View attachment 64290
Depends on how you use them. As Bouncy-House speakers... I wouldn't spend the money, but if you mount them properly up high, they may be a good option.

Still, keep your eyes on the prize and work your way up to the Atmos or Auro installation.

Either of those situations using Top or Height Speakers is very dependent of having the Bed Layer properly placed and dialed in.
 
G

Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
Depends on how you use them. As Bouncy-House speakers... I wouldn't spend the money, but if you mount them properly up high, they may be a good option.

Still, keep your eyes on the prize and work your way up to the Atmosphere or Aurora installation.

Either of those situations using Top or Height Speakers is very dependent of having the Bed Layer properly placed and dialed in.
i would use them on the wall as front heights to declutter the front ball a bit. i am thinking about maybe using two of the kef centers as FL FR and then those atmos speakers as front height and the q150/350 as surrounds. expenive but would fit all my needs
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
i would use them on the wall as front heights to declutter the front ball a bit. i am thinking about maybe using two of the kef centers as FL FR and then those atmos speakers as front height and the q150/350 as surrounds. expenive but would fit all my needs
You would be far better off not using the Center Designs as vertical L/R Speakers. My opinion, but they are not going to give you the imaging that you will want if you are investing that kind of money.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
You would be far better off not using the Center Designs as vertical L/R Speakers. My opinion, but they are not going to give you the imaging that you will want if you are investing that kind of money.
Shoulda added...
This is one of those situations where you, as the owner, are looking at a "lifestyle" situation first, rather than what a good sound setup requires.
I'm not saying this to be judgmental. But if you are really concerned about the impact of Speaker "Boxes" in your room, you'd be better off just getting a soundbar.

This is an age-old conversation. :) And I get it. Not everyone wants to afford good gear. and then there is the matter of setting it up to sound great.

All I can do is offer an opinion to help you make the best decision for yourself.

But seriously, a pair of Q350 plus the Q650C would make an impressive start on your system. You said you already have a Sub...

When you expand to surrounds, the Q150 would be fine... you don't need the 350 there. When you get those dialed in and you are ready to expand to Auro placement, then the Q150s would give you the most bang for your buck. You will need a good wall bracket which will allow you to aim them at your LP, but that is an easily achievable goal.

;)
 
G

Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
thanks for your insights!

If there are two options and both perform similar I would take the more stylish one. I thought the center would perform similar. If the less stylish option would perform worse I would take still take it. I couldn’t tell from the data the center would image worse/wouldn’t synergize well with the bookshelf’s. Would you explain why it would perform/image worse compared to an other pair of bookshelf’s as FR/FL?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Some additional thoughts... at risk of beating this into the ground... ;)

Perhaps, one thing to look at is what a Dream System would look like for you, @Goldhasmter916 . Not just an abjectly ridiculous system, but something you could reasonably see yourself building up to over 10-15 years.
From this, work backwards to what it could be in your current room.

Also, dig into Auro Speaker placement specifications and look at the finer details of where and how they fit into the larger system.
Dolby Atmos is about Angles. To fully understand their setup recommendations one has to dig into a 30- or 40- pg PDF document that defines proper placement. Going by their online overhead "layouts" you would easily mistake proper placement and create a missed opportunity at getting things properly set up.
Auro is not as successful here in the US as it is in Europe. While I've familiarized myself with Dolby requirements, Auro would be a whole other world. ;)
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
i would use them on the wall as front heights to declutter the front ball a bit. i am thinking about maybe using two of the kef centers as FL FR and then those atmos speakers as front height and the q150/350 as surrounds. expenive but would fit all my needs
On your budget and that room, I would do a good 2.1 system or 3.1. Quality of speakers aces out the number of speakers by miles. In fact adding poor nasty speakers is always a downgrade.

Forget that Auro 3D nonsense. It is obsolete and no longer supported and they went bankrupt sometime ago. I have the Auro 3D upmixer and I an tell you it is a useless mess. The Dolby up mixer on the other hand is amazing.

In that small room having speakers other than fronts would be marginally an upgrade, and easily could be a downgrade. 1 good front soundstage alone is always very good. It is far too easy to create chaos as you add speakers and leads to wasting money.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
thanks for your insights!

If there are two options and both perform similar I would take the more stylish one. I thought the center would perform similar. If the less stylish option would perform worse I would take still take it. I couldn’t tell from the data the center would image worse/wouldn’t synergize well with the bookshelf’s. Would you explain why it would perform/image worse compared to an other pair of bookshelf’s as FR/FL?
The important thing to remember is that this Center design is meant to be horizontal. One of the outer woofers is actually a Passive Radiator. So it behaves more like a Port rather than a Woofer, even though it looks like two Woofers.
This changes the way Sound will emanate from the Speaker, somewhat, as opposed to if it were a true MTM design (or in this case an W/TM/W design).

To really compare, you would need to see Polar Plots showing Bothe Speakers Horizontal and Vertical dispersion patterns. Then, rotate the Center Speaker so you can get a better idea of how it would function.

When you add drivers to the outside of the center cone, you will invariably get some interference effects that will narrow dispersion in some ways, and can create what is referred to as lobing, where there will be some areas of lower sound output due to cancelations created by the two drivers overlapping each other.

I'm not saying this will happen here, but it would be a concern to me. If you can find the vertical and horizontal dispersion plots for both Speakers, it should be easy to compare.

Also, keep in mind that the baffle (front face of the Speaker) has a major effect on how sound is produced, and the Crossover of the Speaker is usually designed with this in mind. Changing the orientation of the Baffle can also have an impact beyond what the Drivers alone may do.
Again, you would have to see dispersion plots to gauge the actual effect in this instance.

Hope this helps!
 
G

Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
thanks a lot for the reply. here are the patterns, hence why i thought they would work well together:
horizontal is the same.

1700479826805.png


1700479849735.png
 
G

Goldhasmter916

Audioholic Intern
Just wanted to let everyone know that I ordered the Polk and the kef and you were all right, the kef were more detailed, ,,clearer“, better imaging. They stick more out into the room but I find them more stylish then the Polk so its ok. I returned the Polk and will start to build my Setup around the q series. I have 4 so far and it already sounds amazing, I am very happy. Thanks for all of your support!
 

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