How do you know speaker purchase is good value?

O

OdinGOW

Audioholic Intern
I want to know what brands I should be looking for that have the best price/quality ratio. I've read on here that Bose essentially sucks, and the only great things I've heard about Polk is of their high end stuff. I'm willing to spent around 1k$, mabey more if it's really worth it (like 3k$ speakers for 1500$). I'm currently considering these deals from best buy for Polk but want to know if it's actually a good deal, or if not, what should I be looking for?

Polk Audio 5.1 Home Theatre Speaker System (RM6750) - 6 Speakers : 5.1 Systems - Best Buy Canada

With these towers to make a 7.1 system....

Polk Audio 275-Watt Tower Speaker (TSi500) - Single : Tower Speakers - Best Buy Canada

And how good a deal is this for the zu omen preorder?

Top-10 speakers for $1K, or a lot less - CNET

Also, how important is it really to ensure same brand for all equipment? ... I'm considering getting the yamaha rxv777bt receiver with the system or possibly wait until the denon 4000 (I think) drops in price when their new one comes out.
 
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O

OdinGOW

Audioholic Intern
I'm also confused about

The 'King Kong' of affordable subwoofers - CNET

Is it just a badass sub that I can connect to receiver or does it have it's own stuff built in? I'm just starting to figure all this stuff out but haven't got to point of figuring out all the parts and components that make up audio equipment and therefore don't understand some of the stuff I read... I'm learning fast tho.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I'm waiting for Irv to join this thread and write a three volume treatise on the subject.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I've read on here that Bose essentially sucks, and the only great things I've heard about Polk is of their high end stuff. I'm willing to spent around 1k$, mabey more if it's really worth it (like 3k$ speakers for 1500$).

I'm considering getting the yamaha rxv777bt receiver with the system or possibly wait until the denon 4000 (I think) drops in price when their new one comes out.
What is your real world max budget - how soon do you really plan to buy? Is it now, or black Friday, or Boxing day?

You are still receiver shopping?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/amps-pre-pros-receivers/91856-opinions-wanted;-buying-new-receiver.html
 
O

OdinGOW

Audioholic Intern
My budget depends on how great a value or deal I can get.... I make good money, so it has to be more value than paying off my 2014 jeep Sahara lol..... I doubt I'd ever go over 2500$(Only hit that mark if it was like a 7k$ system), but I could afford 1500$. That's without the receiver, and no I haven't actually baught a receiver yet but have seriously narrowed it down to one of the new yamahas or denon.

I'm not in a huge rush and was wanting to wait till Black Friday, but I'm getting antsy especially when I see deals like the ones I linked to. I don't want to miss these deals to wait for Black Friday only to find the stuff I was interested in doesn't drop in price much at all... Also I'm in canada so deals have to be available in canada.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
Value is complicated.

Let's start with this basic premise:
All speakers, regardless of cost, have some compromise somewhere.

A loudspeaker is something converts an electrical signal into sound. Along the way it must almost inevitably distort that sound one way or another. It also has to interface with a room, which will further distort that sound.

The cheaper you go, the more compromises are made, of course. Lower max SPL, worse room interactivity, less accurate frequency response (which can mean less resolution, unnatural reproduction, exaggerated bass or/and treble, the list goes on.)

Basically when we buy loudspeakers we have to gather a collection of distortions which most bother us or affect our perception in our final listening space - and look towards speakers with the best set of compromises. Subjectivists will word this as "which speakers sound the best to you". Objectivists will word this as "speakers that measure the least bad". Others still will word this as "Speakers which measure good and simultaneously sound good". It's all really code for "which compromises can with live with and which can we not live with".

I could write forever about what you should do when auditioning or what you should do when reading reviews. No problem. And if you want me to, I sure will. But for now, I'll toss out a few loudspeaker suggestions:

Affordable Accuracy by Philharmonic Audio
JBL LSR305
EMP e55ti
Wavecrest Audio
Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 se
KEF Q100 / 300

Take a look at those. Anything about them look appealing? They're my current "handful" of high-value, affordable products. Doesn't mean they're gonna be anyone's of course, although due to their generally accurate measurements, they do get their fair share of discussion on AH. Doesn't mean that there isn't higher performance to be had at higher cost, either.

Re: Polk. As with anything out there - you'll find fans. At the low price points they hit, they have plenty of owners who may or may not be all that "invested" in audio as a hobby. But personally, they're not my go-to speaker line as they choose compromises which I don't respond well to.

You mentioned you're willing to pay x amount only if it performs comparably to 4x that amount. But what does that mean? Does that mean if there's competition at the price point, or if something at 4X the price point is terrible, then it's got value? it's complicated like that because speakers are not a standardized mass-manufactured thing where it's just a matter of checkmarks on a list. There's certainly a law of diminishing returns, but for some people, the set of compromises causes them to go $50,000 / pair towers. For others, that's a lot to shell out and they're lower down on that diminishing returns curve, and still shelling out $9,000. Further down at around, maybe, $2500 / pair you've got people who contend you can't do much significantly better and you can do significantly worse. But that's their position based on their needs and their setup. At the bottom of the diminishing returns curve is people who can't justify dedicated speakers at all, and are satisfied with the tinny speakers built into their flat panel display (ALSO known as women).

How do you define where you yourself fall? Do you want great speakers because they give you better speach, more music immersion, powerful dynamics WRT explosives and gunshots, or do you want surround speakers for ambience? Are you just trying to build a sound system for the sake of "completing" your HT, or are there audible issues in source material which you can identify and are unsatisfied with?

To answer the question"How do you know speaker purchase is good value?" I say: I don't know, but I feel because it:

1) Natural to listen to (I.E. with vocals we don't get excessive sssssibilance beyond the recording itself, no chestu-ness on male vocals, no sense of "cringe" on female vocals, no sense of "shout")
2) Disappears (when you close your eyes, the sound emanating from that speaker, even in mono, comes from the general area around the speaker, not obviously from each individual driver on the front)
3) Measures within +/- 2db between 100hz and 8khz
4) Extends low enough to mate nicely with a subwoofer (for a ported speaker, that's around 60hz, for a sealed speaker, around 100)
5) Displays smooth off-axis behaviour (we can talk measurements or we can talk walking around the room and listening for changes in tonality - your call)
6) Quality internals (decent against a knock-test, system is over-driven gracefully)
7) long term, any upgraditis is because you want "more of this, except better" not, "something different".

With respect to Bose, you can cross it off your list. No one serious about sound messes with it.

Re: CNET

Their resident audio reviewer is dubious in my personal opinion. I would not personally trust any of his reviews very much. I honestly have no clue how he landed the job there.

Re: Subwoofers

Epik is out of business due to poor parts quality. Kaput. Here at Audioholics, Josh Ricci does a lot of subwoofer testing. They're all measured and put to the test. I recommend reading the reviews here as it's all standardized with empirical testing. My main advice is to purchase multiples, even if you have to sacrifice the output of a single or the extension.

Feel free to ask more questions.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I want to know what brands I should be looking for that have the best price/quality ratio. I've read on here that Bose essentially sucks, and the only great things I've heard about Polk is of their high end stuff. I'm willing to spent around 1k$, mabey more if it's really worth it (like 3k$ speakers for 1500$). I'm currently considering these deals from best buy for Polk but want to know if it's actually a good deal, or if not, what should I be looking for?

Polk Audio 5.1 Home Theatre Speaker System (RM6750) - 6 Speakers : 5.1 Systems - Best Buy Canada

With these towers to make a 7.1 system....

Polk Audio 275-Watt Tower Speaker (TSi500) - Single : Tower Speakers - Best Buy Canada

And how good a deal is this for the zu omen preorder?

Top-10 speakers for $1K, or a lot less - CNET

Also, how important is it really to ensure same brand for all equipment? ... I'm considering getting the yamaha rxv777bt receiver with the system or possibly wait until the denon 4000 (I think) drops in price when their new one comes out.
Not the best list.

The Zu Omen is the worst speaker I think I have ever had the displeasure of hearing.

We had a thread on this monstrosity a while back. This is a ridiculous speaker that has/had a vogue among the audiophools. I knew this speaker would be awful, however even I underestimated the ghastly noise this speaker emanates, when I heard a pair were playing at a residence I visited for a Christmas party last December.

You should get that one off your list right now.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
I'm waiting for Irv to join this thread and write a three volume treatise on the subject.
You know that post makes you look insane, your name is Irv too... But alas I am here and late, EV beat me to it, lol...:D

OK, I am so on the same page as the OP, I want $3000 speakers for $90 though :)

SO here is my advice on a nice HT system without spending a ton of money...

For speakers there are plenty of choices, BUT when people here give you recommendations that is all they are, mine are based on what I have listened to with my own ears, which are different than yours {I hope anyway, that would be weird}, some others are based on graphs and reviews both should be taken with a grain of salt, listening to high/mid end speakers is a hobby of mine visiting shows and shops is fun for me as it is for others here... So that being said, you should demo before you buy... One more note- Try to stick with bookshelfs for your front left and right, towers are made for deeper low end extension but with a HT system the low end is handled by the subwoofer, and you receiver is going to stop the bass from going to your fronts and send it to the sub woofer, so towers are kind of a waste, you are spending more for less sound quality, and getting more cabinet resonance for your trouble...

Now as for the equipment, with HT the most important to the least important...
Subwoofer, most important

Front sound stage, the front three speakers, should all match brand and series {we call this matching timbre}

AVR- this is your receiver, I would pick the least expensive with the options you want in a proven brand, I like Denon, Marantz, and Pioneer myself. I like to spend as little as possible, refurbished, demos, ect. these items are quickly outdated {lately there hasn't been a ton of updates, but in the recent past there was}, this will most likely be the first item in your system to need repair or replacement, and finally do not expect to get much back for the unit if it does last long enough to warrant replacement {non existent resale value}...

Surround speakers- these do not have to match the fronts {unless you do 5 ch music} and they do not have to be of the highest caliber, they are simple effect speakers, car doors closing in the back ground, foot steps, small amounts of music, ect, you can do this with a $20 set of bookshelfs... Location and placement is more important than brand, price, size ect...

Least Important is the cables, there are plenty of threads explaining this so I wont go deep into it... Properly sized speaker wire will cound the same as high end expensive cables...

OK, so $1500 for all 5 speakers? With out going used you are not going to get high end equipment, you can get a nice setup, but nothing earth shattering since even in a medium sized room half of your budget is going to go towards a good sub...

So lets start there, the subwoofer... We should know your room size, but here is a solid performer for a good price...
This is very rare but HSU has a vtf2 in Bstock!!! I would jump on this it probably won't last the day, honestly the first time I ever seen one in there... The Hsu Clearance Center $550 shipped...

So now you have around $1000 left for your 5 speakers.... Presuming you are going with 5.1, which is what I would do, 7.1 sounds unnatural to me, needs to be in the correct room design, and there are not many movies recorded in the format.

I will start with the surrounds, I like these for the price.. Amazon.com: Fluance AVBP2 Home Theater Bipolar Surround Sound Satellite Speakers: Electronics these are very similar just a little better quality materials Amazon.com: Fluance XLBP-DW Wide Dispersion Bipolar Surround Sound Speakers for Home Theater-Dark Walnut: Electronics both are great for the money and I have used both...

now for your front sound stage...
these psb's are on sale, small drivers but very capable, nice sound, nice price for under $800 you get the set of 3, they are on demo sale...
PSB - Imagine XB - Bookshelf Loudspeakers-Audio Advisor
PSB Imagine - XC Center Speaker-Audio Advisor

Heres some demo chorus speakers, they sound good for the money, demo priced...
FOCAL CHORUS CC800V CENTER SPEAKER at Music Direct
FOCAL CHORUS 806V BOOKSHELF SPEAKERS (PR) at Music Direct

This is my pick, I am a Wharfedale fan, and the diamonds sound fantastic and are well worth their retail price here is a nice demo set..
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.1 ROSEWOOD **DEMO** at Music Direct
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.CC CENTER CHANNEL SPEAKER (ROSEWOOD) **DEMO** at Music Direct
also they have the matching surrounds on sale too
WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.SR SURROUND SPEAKERS (ROSEWOOD) **DEMO** at Music Direct


Acessories4less also has some Kef, cambridge, and Boston sales that look good, but in my opinion the Wharfedale setup listed above is going to be hard to beat for the money... But these things don't last, these are all first come first serve and a lot of times disappear within the week...

Now for an AVR, there are a lot of choices, I like this one and its a good price with free shipping, again time is important because free shipping comes and goes and they get in and out of stock often... DENON AVR-E400 7.1 4K & 3D Networking Receiver Airplay | Accessories4less

I hope this helps, with the wharfedales {all 5 with the surrounds} , HSU subwoofer, and denon avr you will spend around $1500 complete, I don't think you are going to beat that...
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
At the bottom of the diminishing returns curve is people who can't justify dedicated speakers at all, and are satisfied with the tinny speakers built into their flat panel display (ALSO known as women).
Now THAT'S FUNNY! :D
 
O

OdinGOW

Audioholic Intern
I want to reply to everything after i get off work, tried hsu sub but doesnt ship to canada?
Wat price range does one need then for decent system if 1500$ isnt enough?
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
If you reside close to the US border, open up a US post office box stateside and p/up your orders through US based retailers or ID companies. This would help save you some money in the long run. Personally I would not buy anything from our local BB or Future shop here in Canada...fwiw...I especially hate dealing with FS. As for Hsu they do ship to Canada as others will too...but you'll need to contact them and make the necessary arrangements for delivery. I've chosen to go the ID route as a personal choice that is not to say we don't have other viable options here. Just remember going ID you'll have other expenses to deal with and if you're not 100% satisfied, you'll have to deal with return shipping charges outta pocket.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
My advice does not relate to individual speakers, but I recommend ignoring surround sound completely and focusing on an initial 2.0 set-up, with a follow-on phase to 2.1 once you have saved up for a sub. I also recommend watching Audiogon and Ebay closely and considering used speakers.
 
O

OdinGOW

Audioholic Intern
I wanted to take the time to properly reply to everything everyone has said, but working 16 hr days essentially never mind the hiccups in the day..... So in the few mins I have I just wanted to say I really appreciate everyone who took the time to write so much info and guidance down for me! It really helps a ton, no joke. I didn't want to be (anymore) another audio fool buying stuff without the proper knowledge. Now that I have a better idea what to look for and what to avoid I'll stand a much better chance of actually getting a decent and proper system.

I'll be reading up on many of the things y'all have mentioned and I'm sure you will see much more of me once I get back from camp.
 
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