HIFI WIFI Streaming?

[Johntheoptimist]

Hi!

Brand new on here...and a relatively new audiophile.

My question is this - I own this wifi radio streamer from Sangean:
http://www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=25&cid=2

I have it feeding into my wyred 4 sound st-500 amp and output in my Dunlavy SC-III speakers.

I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?

Thanks,

John

 

[Bucknekked]

Hi!

Brand new on here...and a relatively new audiophile.

My question is this - I own this wifi radio streamer from Sangean:
http://www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=25&cid=2

I have it feeding into my wyred 4 sound st-500 amp and output in my Dunlavy SC-III speakers.

I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?

Thanks,

John

johntheoptimist:
Welcome to the AH and I hope you enjoy your time here. There's plenty of help available on a myriad of topics. I hope to see you around the forums. This is a great topic with a lot of opinions available.

"I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?"

I took a look at the Sangean as I am unfamiliar with that unit and a quick overview of the specs. It seems you have a decent amp in the ST-500 and decent speakers in the Dunlavy's. The Sangean appears to support MP3 and AAC as its primary audio formats. One of the sorry axioms of digital formats is that you can go from a high quality format and reduce it to a lesser quality format, but, you can't take a poor quality format like MP3 and dress it up or upscale it and make it a high quality format.

It would appear, and I'm no expert on the Sangean, that you are stuck with MP3 and AAC. If that's truly the case, no amount of lipstick will take that source and turn it in to anything other than what it is: the lowest common denominator in digital audio.

The key to high quality digital audio is a pretty simple recipe:
1. Get good quality recordings to start with. Format will not save a bad recording
2. Choose the highest quality digital format you can get (uncompressed & lossless is a good combo)
3. Make sure you keep the signal path short , sweet and digital : sitcking with HDMI or TOSLINK

If you can stream Spotify, you can get 320Kbps audio files that sound pretty darn good. If you can stream Tidal you can do the MQA stuff which also sounds pretty good. Many folks here on the AH rip their own CD's and maintain a media steamer to feed the amp. Its what I do. I don't want to get too long in my reply or get too far off topic. But, we can if you wish !

 

[lovinthehd]

What content specifically? Internet radio itself I find generally to be very poor quality, mostly very low bitrate.

 

[Johntheoptimist]

What content specifically? Internet radio itself I find generally to be very poor quality, mostly very low bitrate.

The source this Sangean radio uses is:
http://www.wifiradio-frontier.com/setupapp/fs/asp/BrowseStations/StartPage.asp

MP3 and ACC are the only formats...bitrate ranges from 64 to 320.

 

[Johntheoptimist]

johntheoptimist:
Welcome to the AH and I hope you enjoy your time here. There's plenty of help available on a myriad of topics. I hope to see you around the forums. This is a great topic with a lot of opinions available.

"I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?"

I took a look at the Sangean as I am unfamiliar with that unit and a quick overview of the specs. It seems you have a decent amp in the ST-500 and decent speakers in the Dunlavy's. The Sangean appears to support MP3 and AAC as its primary audio formats. One of the sorry axioms of digital formats is that you can go from a high quality format and reduce it to a lesser quality format, but, you can't take a poor quality format like MP3 and dress it up or upscale it and make it a high quality format.

It would appear, and I'm no expert on the Sangean, that you are stuck with MP3 and AAC. If that's truly the case, no amount of lipstick will take that source and turn it in to anything other than what it is: the lowest common denominator in digital audio.

The key to high quality digital audio is a pretty simple recipe:
1. Get good quality recordings to start with. Format will not save a bad recording
2. Choose the highest quality digital format you can get (uncompressed & lossless is a good combo)
3. Make sure you keep the signal path short , sweet and digital : sitcking with HDMI or TOSLINK

If you can stream Spotify, you can get 320Kbps audio files that sound pretty darn good. If you can stream Tidal you can do the MQA stuff which also sounds pretty good. Many folks here on the AH rip their own CD's and maintain a media steamer to feed the amp. Its what I do. I don't want to get too long in my reply or get too far off topic. But, we can if you wish !

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply - I didn't know that you couldn't "dress up" formats like MP3. content sound exceptionally different from the standard $9.99 per month? (I understand that's a loaded as well as subjective question, lol)

 

[Johntheoptimist]

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply - I didn't know that you couldn't "dress up" formats like MP3. content sound exceptionally different from the standard $9.99 per month? (I understand that's a loaded as well as subjective question, lol)

johntheoptimist:
Welcome to the AH and I hope you enjoy your time here. There's plenty of help available on a myriad of topics. I hope to see you around the forums. This is a great topic with a lot of opinions available.

"I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?"

I took a look at the Sangean as I am unfamiliar with that unit and a quick overview of the specs. It seems you have a decent amp in the ST-500 and decent speakers in the Dunlavy's. The Sangean appears to support MP3 and AAC as its primary audio formats. One of the sorry axioms of digital formats is that you can go from a high quality format and reduce it to a lesser quality format, but, you can't take a poor quality format like MP3 and dress it up or upscale it and make it a high quality format.

It would appear, and I'm no expert on the Sangean, that you are stuck with MP3 and AAC. If that's truly the case, no amount of lipstick will take that source and turn it in to anything other than what it is: the lowest common denominator in digital audio.

The key to high quality digital audio is a pretty simple recipe:
1. Get good quality recordings to start with. Format will not save a bad recording
2. Choose the highest quality digital format you can get (uncompressed & lossless is a good combo)
3. Make sure you keep the signal path short , sweet and digital : sitcking with HDMI or TOSLINK

If you can stream Spotify, you can get 320Kbps audio files that sound pretty darn good. If you can stream Tidal you can do the MQA stuff which also sounds pretty good. Many folks here on the AH rip their own CD's and maintain a media steamer to feed the amp. Its what I do. I don't want to get too long in my reply or get too far off topic. But, we can if you wish !

Odd...it didn't post my full question. I was asking if the HIFI $19.99 per month content at TIDAL is that much different from the standard $9.99 content.

 

[Bucknekked]

Odd...it didn't post my full question. I was asking if the HIFI $19.99 per month content at TIDAL is that much different from the standard $9.99 content.

johntheoptimist:
That's a loaded question for sure ! There are plenty of opinions about Tidals MQA stuff at $19.99 per month verses Spotify's premium 320Kbps stuff at $9.99 a month.

First off, just let me say you can't put lipstick on a pig. If all you can get out of your Sangean unit is MP3 or AAC, you have to live with the audio equivalent of VHS tape. Not much you can do.
But, if you choose another streaming service like Spotify, Pandora or Tidal, you have quality options.

I did a personal side by side testing of Spotify premium at 320Kbps and Tidals MQA titles for a month during their free trial. I would encourage you to do the very same thing: do your own side by side listening tests. Tidal can be used for 60 days for free now. So you can run Tidal and a service like Spotify side by side and do your own tests.

I did it for 30 days and I couldn't hear a difference between $20 bucks a month and $10 bucks a month. So, i kept my Spotify service and let Tidal go. Your experience may be different. I think the consensus on the forum is you are better off doing your own testing if you can on subjective matters like this. You may prefer Tidal and MQA. Just because I didn't is just one data point in a ocean of data

 

[lovinthehd]

The source this Sangean radio uses is:
http://www.wifiradio-frontier.com/setupapp/fs/asp/BrowseStations/StartPage.asp

MP3 and ACC are the only formats...bitrate ranges from 64 to 320.

Most of the internet radio I've tried is more in the 32 -128 mp3 range, I haven't found a radio station on the internet at 320 nor one in AAC (but I didn't look very hard, just going thru various popular stations in a few large markets I'm familiar with), altho just now going thru a listing of "popular" stations in my avr's app I found one at 192 mp3.

@TLSGuy has praised the BBC's streaming but believe he does this by some sort of direct access using a vpn. Saw this article http://www.radiosurvivor.com/2015/03/04/digital-watch-in-search-of-high-fidelity-internet-radio/ while looking around.

I generally use the free Pandora and premium spotify with decent success on various devices, but not expecting a lot from the former and the latter is quite decent. Tried Tidal and the choices I found very limited, particularly for their "masters" quality, and sonically found no reason to use Tidal $10/mo over Spotify $10/mo, and Spotify had more content from the time I spent looking before cutting off the Tidal trial.

ps Some units have a "restorer" type mode/algorithm for low bitrate compression playback....

 

[lovinthehd]

Now that I've focused on internet radio a bit today, found my current main avr has more search function for stations than the one I played around with internet radio before (now in the bedroom). I found that searching by genre a "high quality" choice of stations was available and have found a few 320mp3 and (unspecified rate) AAC stations...

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't know that Sangean unit. I suspect your problem is on the broadcasters end. We seem to be stuck with low bit rate feeds.

To get to quality you need to be 320 kbs AAC + at least. That is hardly available in the US.

However, I think an HTPC would give you more options.

I have a VPN tunnel to the UK and get BBC radio 3 on radio iPlayer and streamed. I'm listening to a BBC Prom right now on my audio workstation and the quality at 320kbs AAC + MPEG 4 DASH is fantastic. Unfortunately the BBC US iPlayer is only 98 kbs AAC +. Even MPR stream at a low bit rate.

Now an HTPC will give you more options on subscription in AV. So you get a picture as well. BBC televised broadcasts in download are 640 kbs AAC + with a fantastic picture.

The Berlin Philharmonic, Vienna Philharmonic, Metropolitan Opera, DSO Medici TV and recently the St. Paul Chamber Orchestra are available on subscription.

The AV quality on the sites I have mentioned is excellent.

Apart from TIDAL, then I think in pop world you will be out of luck.

In my view broadcasters need to shutter than transmitters and go to high quality streaming.

Streaming live and archived has enormous potential, which broadcasters seem unwilling to avail themselves.

 

[-Jim-]

johntheoptimist:
That's a loaded question for sure ! There are plenty of opinions about Tidals MQA stuff at $19.99 per month verses Spotify's premium 320Kbps stuff at $9.99 a month.

First off, just let me say you can't put lipstick on a pig. If all you can get out of your Sangean unit is MP3 or AAC, you have to live with the audio equivalent of VHS tape. Not much you can do.
But, if you choose another streaming service like Spotify, Pandora or Tidal, you have quality options.

I did a personal side by side testing of Spotify premium at 320Kbps and Tidals MQA titles for a month during their free trial. I would encourage you to do the very same thing: do your own side by side listening tests. Tidal can be used for 60 days for free now. So you can run Tidal and a service like Spotify side by side and do your own tests.

I did it for 30 days and I couldn't hear a difference between $20 bucks a month and $10 bucks a month. So, i kept my Spotify service and let Tidal go. Your experience may be different. I think the consensus on the forum is you are better off doing your own testing if you can on subjective matters like this. You may prefer Tidal and MQA. Just because I didn't is just one data point in a ocean of data

Buck,

This is a great post and solution for johntheotimist.

Ages ago (when the technology was in it's infancy) I got into Ripping my own CDs to MP3s, Napster, and finally FLAC. My first exposure to any kind of "Streaming" was Sirius and XM Radio; and both make me cringe. Internet Radio was also a bust, so much in fact I never even tried it on my newest Receiver even though it's built in and connected to my home network.

I have tired Spotify, or rather I let one of our friends connect via Bluetooth from their Phone, and found it mediocre. Selection was great, but they just had the Free version so I'd expect the Spotify premium 320Kbps stuff to sound significantly better. (the commercials seemed kind of weird too.)

Personally, I have so much MP3s and FLAC tunes on a PC, I can stream it to two of my Receivers via the home network. However I sometimes use a Thumb Drive instead. Almost always I use FLAC files and save the MP3s for the car.

 

[Johntheoptimist]

You all have been a huge help...thank you! I look forward to posting more questions (and contributing) in the near future!

 

[DubPlate]

Hi!

Brand new on here...and a relatively new audiophile.

My question is this - I own this wifi radio streamer from Sangean:
http://www.sangean.com/products/product.asp?mid=25&cid=2

I have it feeding into my wyred 4 sound st-500 amp and output in my Dunlavy SC-III speakers.

I'm finding that the sound quality is mediocre at best. Is there any sort of device that I can utilize between the streamer and the amp that could enhance the quality and convert the music into a HIFI signal?

Thanks,

John

I would recommend giving amazon music unlimited try. I have had Spotify premium for a feels months, and I always listened with m-Dax enabled on the receiver, it artificially boost the high and low end. Without m-Dax enabled, the lows seemed anemic on Spotify.

I took advantage of a free trial from amazon. And I can def hear the difference. I now listen with m-Dax off, even the mids sound better, but that may be a function of greater contrast between the more pronounced highs and lows.

Amazon does not release there specs, but I would presume that is at least 320 Kbps for streaming.

I have also noticed that if you download a song or album via mobile, instead of stream, the sound quality is improved. Downloads appear to have higher quality. Another advantage is that if you already have prime, music unlimited is 7.99 per month.