Help..... Can the Marantz PM14S1 power B&W CM9S2?

K

kgppg

Audiophyte
Hi Folks,

Would appreciate your views on powering B&W CM9S2 with Marantz PM14S1..
Will the PM14S1 be under powered ?

Actually I wish to upgrade my fronts from CM8S2 to CM9S2 and use the CM8s as the surrounds.
My present setup consists of the following:

Fronts: B&W CM8S2
Center: B&W CM C S2
Surrounds: B&W M-1
Sub: Rel T9
Receiver: Marantz SR5009
Integrated Amp: Marantz PM14S1
Blue Ray Player: Oppo 103D

My usage is 70% Music and 30% Movies.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi Folks,

Would appreciate your views on powering B&W CM9S2 with Marantz PM14S1..
Will the PM14S1 be under powered ?

Actually I wish to upgrade my fronts from CM8S2 to CM9S2 and use the CM8s as the surrounds.
My present setup consists of the following:

Fronts: B&W CM8S2
Center: B&W CM C S2
Surrounds: B&W M-1
Sub: Rel T9
Receiver: Marantz SR5009
Integrated Amp: Marantz PM14S1
Blue Ray Player: Oppo 103D

My usage is 70% Music and 30% Movies.
It may seem hard to believe, PM14S1 is no doubt of much higher build quality but it will not give you more power than the SR5009 if only 2 channels are driven, well may be a touch more.

Whether it is under powered for the CM9S2 depends on your room dimensions, sitting distance from the speakers and the SPL that you need.

For example, in a small to medium size room sitting 10 ft from the speakers you will lose 5 to 6 dB assuming you will get 4 to 5 dB of room gain. So if you listen to say around 80-81 dB of spl on average, the PM14S1 will have enough power to give you up to around 20 dB for dynamic peaks that are not uncommon in classical music.
 
K

kgppg

Audiophyte
Hi PENG,

Thanks a ton for your response.
When I purchased the PM14S1, I only had the CM8S2 in mind and did not bother to even see beyond. However now I am toiling with the idea of a better front speak and find myself in this dilemma.

The actual size of my room is 24'x10'x10' (LxBxH), however the listening area is set up width wise (see attached layout) so it is effectively 10'x11' (LxW).

Although I do not listen very loud, probably 75dB would be the average, I do like a tighter and deeper bass hence the idea for upgrading.

Do you think the KEF R700 would be a better choice under the circumstances ?
 

Attachments

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi PENG,

Thanks a ton for your response.
When I purchased the PM14S1, I only had the CM8S2 in mind and did not bother to even see beyond. However now I am toiling with the idea of a better front speak and find myself in this dilemma.

The actual size of my room is 24'x10'x10' (LxBxH), however the listening area is set up width wise (see attached layout) so it is effectively 10'x11' (LxW).

Although I do not listen very loud, probably 75dB would be the average, I do like a tighter and deeper bass hence the idea for upgrading.

Do you think the KEF R700 would be a better choice under the circumstances ?
One of my two channel systems is in a similar size room just 1 ft wider than yours, and I sit on the long side. If you sit on the wide side, I assume you are only 6.5 ft from the speakers. I have the R900 and LS50 (with sub) side by side and I generally prefer the sound of the LS50, though just slightly. I have no idea how the B&W CM speakers sound but I do like the 804S and 804 diamonds. The LS50, and the R500 and up have excellent measurements, much better than any CM series I have seen in the past.

You room is not really that small, but sitting distance matters, so I think your integrated amp is well suited for any speakers with sensitivity of 85 dB/2.83V/1M or better. I wouldn't worry about those impedance dips that you are going to get whether you decided to go with the B&W or KEF. If you decide to go with KEF, I think you can go with the R500 (LS50) and add a couple of sealed subs for the tight bass. Too bad the integrated amp doesn't come with Audyssey but you can still try to tune the subs manually if you have the right sub, just a lot of work and likely not as good result. On the other hand, you may be lucky that you don't need to do any EQ at all.
 
K

kgppg

Audiophyte
Except for the bass, I am quite satisfied with the CM8S2..

After reading your suggestion about the R500 and a couple of sealed subs, an idea did crop up in my mind... As my main issue is with the bass, I could probably try adding another sub to improve it instead of going for either the CM9S2/R700/R500.

This definitely would be the cheaper option for me as the CM9S2 is horrendously priced here in India, although the R700 is about 30% cheaper.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Except for the bass, I am quite satisfied with the CM8S2..

After reading your suggestion about the R500 and a couple of sealed subs, an idea did crop up in my mind... As my main issue is with the bass, I could probably try adding another sub to improve it instead of going for either the CM9S2/R700/R500.

This definitely would be the cheaper option for me as the CM9S2 is horrendously priced here in India, although the R700 is about 30% cheaper.
Then yes you should get the bass you want with subs, but good subs. KEF R700 in North America costs about the same as the CM9 S2, so if you can get it for 30% less I wonder what the reasons are. I just checked, even in the UK where they are made, both are going for about £2,000

I hate to say this, but if returning the integrated amp is still an option, then you can re-balance your system by spending more on speakers/subs and much less on amps.
 
K

kgppg

Audiophyte
I currently use a REL T9, which is very good... I could add another one... lets see.

About the prices CM9S2 Vs R700, I probably should have put it differently. I believe the B&W products are over priced here in India, currently the CM9S2 is selling at Rs 349000/pair (approx $5300) and the R700 at Rs 240000/pair (approx $3700). I could probably get a discount of around 5% on the above prices.

The price of the R700 that you mention is probably consistent with those in India (i.e. after adding an import duty of 35%) but that of the CMs are well over the top.

Unfortunately returning the PM14S1 isn't an option now, the best I can do is put it up for sale, but then I will probably have to incur a sizeable loss.

For now may be I should borrow a sub and try it out in my listening area and take it from there.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
If you aren't pounding the snot out of it, the integrated amp should be fine and if you are pounding it, it should still be fine unless the sensitivity of those speakers is less than 86dB/1W.

The photo shows the specs for the integrated amp I'm using and it sounds great, has always sounded great and it has no problem providing more output than I need. The low end is rock solid and I would say it has always sounded very neutral, noise floor is very low and it was made in the '80s. If yours can do 2dB of dynamic headroom (same as mine), I don't think you'll have any problems. If you find that the volume control indicator tends to be near/at/above 12:00, you're nowhere near 75dB.
 

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K

kgppg

Audiophyte
If you aren't pounding the snot out of it, the integrated amp should be fine and if you are pounding it, it should still be fine unless the sensitivity of those speakers is less than 86dB/1W.

The photo shows the specs for the integrated amp I'm using and it sounds great, has always sounded great and it has no problem providing more output than I need. The low end is rock solid and I would say it has always sounded very neutral, noise floor is very low and it was made in the '80s. If yours can do 2dB of dynamic headroom (same as mine), I don't think you'll have any problems. If you find that the volume control indicator tends to be near/at/above 12:00, you're nowhere near 75dB.
Hi highfigh,

Its encouraging to note that I can make do with my PM14S1 even if I upgrade my fronts to the CM9S2 or R700.
I do not hear at very high volumes hence I am sure my amp can do 2dB of dynamic headroom.
By the way the sensitivity of the CM9S2 is 89dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi highfigh,

Its encouraging to note that I can make do with my PM14S1 even if I upgrade my fronts to the CM9S2 or R700.
I do not hear at very high volumes hence I am sure my amp can do 2dB of dynamic headroom.
By the way the sensitivity of the CM9S2 is 89dB spl (2.83V, 1m)
Dynamic headroom is the peak power when the amplifier is already outputting its full power and not all amps can provide much, if any, additional power. This is important if you want to operate at high power levels, less important if you will operate at low levels.

The amp I'm using is almost 30 years old and the only service it has needed that I know of is cleaning of the controls and switches, although it was a refurb, so it may have needed something more extensive at some point. I bought it from the service tech at the stereo store where we worked and I don't remember him saying anything about it needing service.

That Marantz amp should work well and they have been known for sound quality for long time.
 
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