Graphic Equalizer for Yamaha RX-797?

Discussion in 'GENERAL AV Discussions' started by mrm3601, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. mrm3601 Audiophyte

    mrm3601
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    Can anyone suggest a graphic equalizer for a Yamaha RX-797? I'd like to spend less than $200.00 if possible.

    Thank you again.
  2. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Unfortunately, you cannot connect an equalizer to your receiver. Your receiver, like virtually all modern AV receivers lack the needed "tape monitor loop" that is needed to insert equalizers into the signal path. While these were standard in the old days of analog stereo, they have gone the way of the dodo bird with the advent of digital multi-channel receivers.
  3. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    In initial agreement with mark I went to look up that receiver to see if it had pre-outs and suggest that you could get an external amp if you were really intersted BUT, noticed that this is in fact a stereo receiver with external processing loop. You CAN use in fact use a GEQ with it, but unfortunately I have no suggestion on that front.
  4. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Well, I hope you're right but, remember, the mere presense of a tape output and a tape input doesns't necessarially mean they are wired to allow the needed "loop" configuration needed to insert the eq into the circuit path. My take here is that the out and in are totally independent of each other, which is not what is needed here.
  5. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    [​IMG]

    I'd hope I would not mistake a tape i/o as a processing loop
  6. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Here's my "Tape Momitor Loop 101" lesson.

    <O:p></O:p>
    <O:p> </O:p>
    We all make mistakes. Here’s a little primer on tape loops.


    To insert an equalizer or similar in-line processing device, one needs to insert it somewhere in the circuit path. You must break the circuit, send the signal out to the device, and then return it into the circuit exactly where it left it.

    This is generally done with a "tape monitor loop" circuit, which is activated by a “Tape Monitor” switch/button located on the front panel. This is more than just a tape input and output jack.

    Please note that some units, like my NAD 1600 have an “External Processor Loop (EPL) button that does exactly the same thing.

    The next few paragraphs deal with using a tape monitor circuit on a stereo receiver of old.

    In the good old days of analog two-channel stereo, adding an equalizer was as simple as pie. You simply located the tape monitor output on the back panel, ran an interconnect from there to the eq’s input, and then ran another interconnect from the eq’s output back to the tape monitor’s input on the receiver. You turn on the eq, push the “Tape Monitor” button on the receiver in, and, viola! Your eq is now in the circuit!

    Or, to put in a more visual sense

    · Amplifier/receiver tape output to equalizer input.
    · Equalizer output to Amplifier/receiver tape input.
    · Press “Tape Monitor” button on the Amplifier/receiver and you’re in business!

    Likewise, to take the eq out of the circuit, you just pushed the “Tape Monitor” switch again to restore the internal signal path.

    Essentially, what the “tape monitor” button does can be described in two steps.

    1) When the “tape monitor” button is in its “out” position, the signal is fed internally from the “tape out” jacks to the “tape in” jacks.

    2) When you push it in, that out/in connection severed, the signal goes out the “tape monitor out” jacks, through the external device, and then back into the “tape monitor in” jacks.

    This is why pushing the “tape monitor” button in when nothing is connected to the “tape monitor” in and out jacks, the signal will disappear. It’s going out but never returning.

    Now, if one is talking about one of the current receivers, simply having tape out and tape in jacks on the back panel does not guarantee that it will create the needed "monitor loop" configuration.

    While many modern receivers might have “tape out” jacks on the back to allow you to send an analog two-channel signal out to an external device, it’s generally a one-way trip. particularly when they are controlled by a separate source selector.

    Likewise, they might have a “tape input” on the back to allow you to play tapes through your system, but odds are it must be selected via the input selector, which makes it worthless for the purpose of inserting an eq into the circuit.

    The key is to scour the front panel for a "tape loop" or "tape monitor" button. Without that, these two sets of jacks simply allow a signal to be sent out to a tape deck but that tape deck's input must be selected as another input, not the out/in loop, as many have discovered.

    So, if you do indeed have the needed "tape monitor loop" then you're good to go.

    One way to verify you do have what's needed is to take one stereo interconnect and connect the tape output to the tape input in question. Switch the receiver to FM, CD or some other source besides tape, and press the tape monitor switch. It should sound exactly the same. If you lose the signal, there's a problem.

    Likewise, not being able to find the "tape monitor" button/switch on the front panel is a problem also.

    But, the good news is that, from your picture, I do see that he CAN insert an eq between the pre-out and the main in by removing the jumpers and inserting the eq there, if he doesn't mind a little additional noise.

    Whatever eq OP winds up with, I hope he realizes that every three decibles of increase he appies draws twice as much power as was needed before. Six decibles sucks FOUR times the power. Doubling the apparant loudness calls for TEN times the power. It's really, really easy to force a receiver into clipping with an eq if one is not careful.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2014
  7. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    That's what I calling a "processing loop" is there a better term for it?
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2014
  8. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    If you want, you can call a turd a rose but it still won't smell the same.

    No, not really. True "signal processing" (and tape recording) is done at a constant line level.

    That's why tape monitors are before the preamp stages. Tape recorders (and equalizers) "live" on a constant line level signal which, in reality, is higher than the signal available at the preamp output which is actually attenuated (lower) than the line-level signal available at a tape output.

    So, while an equalizer will "work" here, it'll have a lower level signal coming in, which will be close to it's own internal noise floor, and amplify the preamp noise as well as adding it's own internal noise. Try using a preamp out to feed a tape recorder and you'll soo learn the difference.

    IOW, if you took a tape output and fed it directly into a power amp,it would be essentially the same as maxing out the volume control, which is what you want going into a "signal processor. This keeps the noise lower.

    I guess thisall is second nature to those of us who started in this hobby up when "tape monitor loops" were used for their intended purpose which was for monitoring the output of three head reel-to-reel tape decks. That's where they got their name and it stuck long after R2R's fell out of favor and equalizers and other sighal processors came into play.

    Stick around, kid. You'll learn a lot.
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  9. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    That was rather informative, but I really did want to know what I should properly call that. I it simply called "the coupler"?
  10. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    We've always called it a link.
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  11. Time_Stand_Stil Junior Audioholic

    Time_Stand_Stil
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    Re: The manual.

    Connect the EQ to the Main In and Pre Outs. This inserts EQ into the system. Do not turn on CD Direct nor PURE Direct if you wish to use the EQ. The EQ will have a switch that powers it up and allows you to manipulate the sound by its design.
  12. mrm3601 Audiophyte

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  13. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Oh, we've come to agreement that you most certainly can connect an equalizer between your pramp outputs and main amp inputs even befoe TSS chimed in with the simplified version for those who couldn't follow along. I guess you missed that part.

    Now, whether it's a good idea to do so is another matter entirely.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  14. mrm3601 Audiophyte

    mrm3601
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    Yes, you're right.

    I actually don't know if it's a good idea. I'm a neophyte when it comes to audio.

    Thanks.
  15. markw Audioholic Overlord

    markw
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    Don't get me wrong. It'll work. You won't hurt anything.

    If you've got one, play with it but I wouldn't go out and buy a new one. Keep an eye on garage sales and the like.

    You'll notice these aren't readily available anymore. These were big in the 70's and, like disco and leisure suits, they went out of style for good reason.
  16. Time_Stand_Stil Junior Audioholic

    Time_Stand_Stil
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    Graphic EQ's are double edge swords. Sure they allow you to tailor your sound and as such you may enjoy the results but they can technically make sound worse as they mess around with frequencies boost and cut. This can affect the engineered sound and hopeful accuracy of the music you listen to. But they can also shape sound that you find is lacking or a poorly recorded album. Not all recording engineers were and are good, (more and more $hitty ones today IMO) and if it's vinyl, not all record cutting techs were good. So an EQ can be of use if YOU know what you are doing and understand their limitations.

    The are not many available in the consumer market today and most consumers have moved to home theatre and other multichannel sound and as such a stereo EQ is not going to be serviceable. But if one runs a stereo set up or listen to stereo music an EQ can be useful. Quality brand vintage ones will be better built than the plethora of cheap crap peddled today. But they may suffer from age. If one is in proper shape they are engineered to be clean and non noise inducing products. Not the older cheap ones nor most of the cheap new ones today but better and thus more expensive vintage ones.
  17. mtrycrafts Audioholic Slumlord

    mtrycrafts
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    Yes, if you play with it on every recording. But, if you try to correct room effects on the frequency response, that should get you closer to what was recorded hoping that the studio had room corrective EQ applied too. Without that, somekind of a standard, it is a floating ball game and unknown.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 19, 2014

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