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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Just to make clear, MrBoat, I stand by the kit I recommended in your other thread.

Not only did it meet the specific requirements you asked about over there (something inexpensive and loud), but it also just so happens to be a very good performer (perhaps better than those who haven't built them realize). It's not geared for output like a PA speaker, although it is far more sensitive than most domestic speakers, which pays big dividends in terms of required amp power and tremendous reduction of speaker induced distortion. It's a design that emphasizes very smooth, controlled coverage, and Jeff Bagby did a commendable job on the networks; the mids are very smooth. [For those not following, I recommended the SEOS Tempest from diysoundgroup, which I have personal experience with.]

All of the speakers that have been mentioned to you so far would serve as excellent case studies to help you understand how speaker designers juggle all the variables and compromises involved. You should take a close look at everything as you soak this all in.
Ok, so I built the Fusion-12 Tempests. All I can say is. . . . hol-ee crap! These things don't mess around. They sound fantastic! I have to say though, those JBL S312's are definitely holding their own in the efficiency department as well with overall sound.

Do the Tempests need subs? Barely. But I cannot imagine how much better this would sound with two so, I am going to build 2 subwoofers next. I can't see needing anymore than dual sealed 12's in this humble abode. I already have a "BEHRINGER iNUKE NU3000DSP" amp, so perhaps that will help eek something else out of this I am unaware of at this point. Truth be told, I could listen to these without subs and be ok but it's early and haven't tested a bunch of different kinds of music yet.

So then, ski2xblack, I have to thank you for a really good recommendation and figuring out what I was after by my description. They're awesome.

I haven't put a finish on the cabinets yet, figuring on listening to them first to see what they deserve. As it stands, the outer baffle is only screwed to the inner via the driver screws and a couple blind drywall screws, in the event I want to veneer the main cases and paint the rounded over fronts.
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Pics? Congrats! Which subs are you going to build?
I bought the flat pack. Sometimes, just knowing you can is enough. The idea this time is to not end up with a bunch of materials that I will end up storing forever. Just got rid of years worth of accumulation and aim not to replace it with more of the same. Cabinet kit is pretty straight forward. The faces are just tack screwed on for now so that I can take them back apart. The clamp is there so I could crank them without anything rattling. I'll build some short stands for them as well. These things sound incredible.
upload_2016-12-18_1-4-36.png


I am considering the 12" ultimax subs from PE.

ETA: If I were to describe the sound these put out, bass included, the word I would use is, "succinct."
 
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ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
Christmas comes early for the Boat man! (Super psyched that you like them.)
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
These things are actually capable of accurate, full range performance with music. If the music was recorded with heavy bass foundation, these play it back like that. I'd go as far as to say that these speakers are actually forgiving in that regard, more than incapable. I know this by listening to the same artists who recorded albums over a period of time, who's bass input changed from album to album, and after being familiar with them with actual full range speakers.

I grew up in the 70's, and spent a great deal of time going to rock concerts, listening to garage/warehouse bands and other outdoor events and mostly because a lot of my friends were/are musicians, some of who are actually still very good. I never recalled anything based below say, the 35hz range, at least not intentionally. It was that mid bass presence that you felt more than anything else.

After doing a great deal of reading on this subject, I am getting the feeling that HT, gaming, bass music and outright generational differences all seemingly being crammed into one package is confusing things quite a bit. When someone claims a certain speaker does not have enough bass, the first thing I am compelled to ask them is how old they are, or when they started seriously listening to music and where. If someone reports that they watch 70% movies, 20% sports and 10% music, I have a hard time with their bass analysis, which is something I have had to watch out for, even with an initial disclaimer saying I primarily listen to music.

I tested these listening to Brian Bromberg playing stand up bass and found out quick like that some of my windows need tightening up and it wasn't turned up very loud. That's pretty much perfect, to my ears at least.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Having heard other speakers from the Fusion line, I have no doubt these would be very good speakers. You will enjoy them for years to come I am sure.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Congrats. They seem to be extremely capable and excellently designed speakers. I expect nothing less from Jeff Bagby's work. But a bit disheartening is their price: a pair of kits with printed xo boards, flatpacks and shipping comes to $840 or. Add cost of glue, clamps and finish and we are easily in 1k/pair price range. That doesn't mean it's a show stopper - I looked and It's still hard to find speakers of this performance at these price
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
Congrats. They seem to be extremely capable and excellently designed speakers. I expect nothing less from Jeff Bagby's work. But a bit disheartening is their price: a pair of kits with printed xo boards, flatpacks and shipping comes to $840 or. Add cost of glue, clamps and finish and we are easily in 1k/pair price range. That doesn't mean it's a show stopper - I looked and It's still hard to find speakers of this performance at these price
I agree but, then when I broke it down, considering the work on their end with just managing an affair such as this, the amount of work they put into the packing, the interaction with the customers via email etc, I couldn't imagine doing it for that price myself, never mind less. That was the deciding factor, meaning, I had to be fair about it. I certainly could have paid less, but I get away with that with all the other things I have done myself over the years. Typically, I am completely hands on with as much being raw material as possible. Now I'm to the point of just knowing I can if I choose to being enough. Part way into it I thought to myself I would have much rather have used top grade cabinet ply with mitered corners instead and I had to tell myself to "get over it." It's 2016/17. Everything is expensive so, I have to remember that too.

Finally, this is mad money that I would essentially waste on something consumable with nothing to show for it in the end. Nix a few questionable habits and I can afford to be a little foolish here and there. To be honest, this was a lesson on what to expect from certain ratings speakers and such are based on. When I build others in the future, I will have a hands/ears on measure to weigh against with my personal expectations and desires. I also have to take into consideration all the free stuff I got, like the Denon AVR. Overall, I am still about a 1/4 price to gain acquisition.
 
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MrBoat

Audioholic Ninja
I should also thank the rest of the responders to my topics that helped me figure out what I was looking for and to help me catch up on what I did not know. This forum has been a great help.
 
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