Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
No doubt. Looks like it was also partly responsible, along with the base 21.0L, for killing off the 18.3.

http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p10/Funk_Audio_-_18.3_discontinued.html
The 18.3 has been discontinued due to the new 21.0L and 21.0LX essentially replacing it. The 18.3 is still a very good design and still has some advantages so we will still build the 18.3 but only on a fully custom order basis, please contact us for options and pricing.
Probably makes the 18.2 a harder sell now too as it offers comparable low end performance on a one to one basis and plenty on the top end, while a master/slave setup undercuts the flagship on price.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Nice sub. The only thing that ever gave me pause about their drivers is their use of a "treated foam" surround. Foam surrounds are lightweight and cheaper than rubber, but rubber lasts for decades, and foam has had a poor longevity record. If I ever made a purchase decision on a Funk product I had planned to ask them about that.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
They probably use butyl foam for the surround which is supposedly much more durable than the older foams used for surrounds. Longevity comparable to rubber.
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
Would love to have 2 of those beasts but my wallet thinks otherwise.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Nice sub. The only thing that ever gave me pause about their drivers is their use of a "treated foam" surround. Foam surrounds are lightweight and cheaper than rubber, but rubber lasts for decades, and foam has had a poor longevity record. If I ever made a purchase decision on a Funk product I had planned to ask them about that.
I kind of feel the same way about the surrounds for my VTF-3 MK5's. Enough so that I called Hsu and asked. They gave me the "treated with rubber and just as durable" explanation and it shut me up, but still niggles at the back of my mind...
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I kind of feel the same way about the surrounds for my VTF-3 MK5's. Enough so that I called Hsu and asked. They gave me the "treated with rubber and just as durable" explanation and it shut me up, but still niggles at the back of my mind...
My guess is it probably doesn't weather extremes of temperature and humidity as well as rubber, but in a controlled environment it will last a very long time. Very good for home audio subs, but maybe not as good for car subs and boat subs. Rubber does bring about its own set of performance penalties too.
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Nice sub. The only thing that ever gave me pause about their drivers is their use of a "treated foam" surround. Foam surrounds are lightweight and cheaper than rubber, but rubber lasts for decades, and foam has had a poor longevity record. If I ever made a purchase decision on a Funk product I had planned to ask them about that.
FWIW, I've never talked to Nathan about it, but I have seen some discussion on the subject with respect to JL Audio, as they use foam surrounds for a lot of their long throw drivers, including those on the Fathoms. In their case, they stated it was a polyester compound and implied that it wasn't really susceptible to dry rot like older foam surrounds.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/736243-jl-audio-fathom-13-sub-118.html#post13454017

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/736243-jl-audio-fathom-13-sub-118.html#post13425966

Rockford also uses "foam" for their $2,500 superwoofer, which one would hope would have a fairly decent lifespan as well:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/t3s2-19
Injection molded foam surround with VAST™
I suppose only time will tell though. I'm hoping I've got at least a couple more years on my 18.0 :D
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I suppose only time will tell though. I'm hoping I've got at least a couple more years on my 18.0 :D
I'm sure you will. And I'm not of a mind that a particular driver part material that I'm not an expert about would keep me from purchasing. Funk subs have attracted me for a few years now. The foam surround is simply a question that comes to mind.

I will say that I think more about longevity in speakers than I did even ten years ago. The Salon2s in my system are approaching eight years old, and the Velodyne sub is already six years old. In my auditions, it seems the Salon2s are still near the state of the art in their price range, and while Revel actively updates its more modest product lines, the Ultima2 series remains in place even though they were released in 2007. The Velodyne DD18 Plus has definitely been eclipsed, IMO, by other subs, like the 21.0LX, and I have been tempted to replace it, but the truth is I'm not even stressing the DD18 Plus in my system, no less a monster like the 21.0 (or the 24" Deep Sea Sound thing that tempted me for a few months). As I get cheaper and more practical in my old age, I wonder if I will ever need to replace the Velodyne if it continues to function.

Until relatively recently, it seems speaker technology improved at a rapid pace. Better drivers, better software, better materials, wider availability of CNC manufacturing products, probably other reasons, powered a steep improvement curve for a time, but now the performance improvement curve seems to have flattened out. Certainly for subwoofers one wonders how performance will be improved much over what that 21.0LX will likely demonstrate for home use. How much utility is there for 130db of output at 20Hz? Even for full-range towers... when the Salon2 was introduced it was a sensation, but now, I think other products certainly approach it, if not exceed it, yet Revel can't seem to produce a worthwhile follow-on. (To Revel's credit, the Salon2's MSRP is still the same as it was in 2007.)

I suspect that in general, competently designed speakers are getting much more difficult to improve upon at a given price level.
 
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NINaudio

NINaudio

Audioholic Samurai
I'd be more worried about foam surrounds in a car audio environment. The foam surround on my previous home subwoofer gave out after 15 years of use. I felt oddly ok with the surround getting shredded by watching Wolverine...
 

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