FLOORSTANDING SPEAKER COMPARISON

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Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
Hi Everyone:

Currently looking for floorstanding speakers for listening to music, I may add a sub later on so the application will be music 2.1. Amp is a Yamaha AS2100 currently powering a pair of Elac B6s. Listen to hard rock and classic rock but also opera, classical, jazz and vocals.
After some research and auditions I'm at the following stop.
Before continuing let me just say I don't consider myself an audiophile nor I know or familiar with the terms most of you use in this forum.

My budget started with $800 and was looking at the Elac's F6, then heard the UF5 from Elac were wonderful so I went ahead and schedule an audition, on the way there a friend of mine advised to listed to the Klipsch RP280F so I did and the sales guy also allowed me to listen to the RF7 II and the focal's I forgot the model but the price was similar to the RF7. Then later on that day auditioned the uf5 and also the Golden Ear Triton 3 plus. Next day at Best buy auditioned the Martin Logan ESD and motion, then B&W Cm10's and CM8 and Sonus Faber. Here are my impressions and comments, maybe someone can provide some more insight on what to select, I understand the budget is no longer $800 but don't want to run short either and miss some amazing sound.

Elac UF5 - Sound is clear, lacking a little on the low's, these can be remediated with a sub. Soundstage and instruments sound all mixed and coming from same direction. I was expecting more I think.
Triton 3 plus - These are active speakers, lows are amazingly crips, high and mids are ok, soundstage is ok better than the UF5
Klipsch RP280 - Comparable in my opinion to the Elac's UF5
Klipsch RF7-II - These sound amazingly good, it feels like you are in front of a stage and the instruments, vocals etc. coming from different directions, I liked these a lot, the lows reproduction is very good and I may add a sub.
Martin Logan - ESD - Different sound to anything I have heard before but did not like it too much.
ML Motion's - Incredible lows, very good sound still prefer the RF7 over this one.
B&W CM10 - Here is my dilemma, without being biased I believe these sounded amazing, the lows are not that good but it can be remediated with a good sub (I think) the mids, highs and soundstage and sound in general was as good or better than the RF7's (IMHO)
Sonus Faber - I was not impressed comparing side by side to ML and BW.

So I'm kind of split between RF7, CM10 and the UF5 as I think I couldn't auditioned the uf5 properly, or maybe is I'm trying to have myself to consider $1000 for my budget for the pair.

Anyways this is were I'm standing now and any comments or aid you may provide will be welcome.

Thank you
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Good write up. Based on what you've heard, which characteristics would you place highest value on? Clarity/detail (overall, bright or soft)? Bass (tight, not boomy)? Mid/vocal (sound real and clear)? Soundstage (does it sounds like they are in the room with you)?

I tend toward clarity and smoothness of vocals first, then clear highs (not bright) and then clean bass. These are the things I listen for when evaluating.

Welcome!;)
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I don't know if the Klipsch RF7 has this issue or not, but I have read others reporting that the tweeters are easy to damage on some Klipsch models from Reference series. That said, when I had some Reference towers some time ago I did enjoy them. I don't remember specifics but I do remember thinking "whoever thinks these sound harsh needs their hearing checked".

B&W CM series are outstanding speakers and generally thought of as a very good value. What's the price difference between those and the Klipsch?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
What you want is a good tower speakers for $800-1000 (price per pair I assume). It's a pipe dream. Great tower speakers (which you truly don't need sub) start from 3.5k
What you really need is pair of Philharmonic AA's bookshelves at $210+shipping and a good sub.
See this thread for explanation:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/floor-standing-speakers-vs-bookshelf-speakers.104707/#post-1148467

Sub:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html
or
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html
 
Last edited:
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
Good write up. Based on what you've heard, which characteristics would you place highest value on? Clarity/detail (overall, bright or soft)? Bass (tight, not boomy)? Mid/vocal (sound real and clear)? Soundstage (does it sounds like they are in the room with you)?

I tend toward clarity and smoothness of vocals first, then clear highs (not bright) and then clean bass. These are the things I listen for when evaluating.

Welcome!;)
Thanks, I'm evaluating for the same, you described it very well
 
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
I don't know if the Klipsch RF7 has this issue or not, but I have read others reporting that the tweeters are easy to damage on some Klipsch models from Reference series. That said, when I had some Reference towers some time ago I did enjoy them. I don't remember specifics but I do remember thinking "whoever thinks these sound harsh needs their hearing checked".

B&W CM series are outstanding speakers and generally thought of as a very good value. What's the price difference between those and the Klipsch?
the RF7 will run at $2700 a pair and the CM10 $3700 after discounts.Substantial difference, I could not listen to tracks I'm used to with the CM''s but I did listen Rush's Red Barchetta and YYZ and two Sinatra tracks on the Klipsch and I heard notes that I never did before. That said overall I think the CM10's clarity was superior (different music and different tracks as I could not use my music with it)

Some people will describe in the forums the B&W as you are paying for status which may be translated as if you can get a $2000 pair of speakers of same or better quality and performance than the CM10 for $4000. Personally I'm kind of certain I'm not biased toward the CM10's (more money) I'm just trying to be objective.

But you guys (and gals) probably have heard all these speakers (and more) in ideal conditions that's why I'm interested on your opinions.

My issue is no single store carries all three (or even two) of these brands, if not I will go ahead and get them and audition these at home and will swap them if I don't think the performance is acceptable, that would make it easier indeed.
 
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
What you want is a good tower speakers for $800-1000 (price per pair I assume). It's a pipe dream. Great tower speakers (which you truly don't need sub) start from 3.5k
What you really need is pair of Philharmonic AA's bookshelves at $210+shipping and a good sub.
See this thread for explanation:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/floor-standing-speakers-vs-bookshelf-speakers.104707/#post-1148467

Sub:
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/LV12R.html
or
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html
Some of the speakers I auditioned, the ML Motion's to be specific and the Triton 3 Plus have great bass reproduction and the sub won't be needed, the bass is actually very very detailed, when you listed to these and you switch back to the CM10 for example definitely you lose a lot of bass but the clarity and sound of the mids and highs it is better. That's why I thought adding a sub will balance the proportion.
I tried the CM10's with a sub they had at the store and the bass was not good as with the ML motions but it may be that the sub used was low quality, it was a ML if I'm not mistaken but one of the entry level ones.
I will take a look at the AA's,
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Keep in mind also it is your room where you will use the speakers, hard to make precise judgements not having them setup properly in your own room; try listening to some at home if possible. FWIW your integrated amp has no bass management for implementation of a subwoofer (and all the speakers you are looking at I'd use a sub with but your needs may be different from mine).
 
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
You are correct there is no crossover in the amp just the pre out for an active subwoofer. What would you say is ideally for this setup?

Adding that an active subwoofer with a built in x-over should re mediate this correct?

Adding: Of course all lows will go to the speakers as well and this affects clarity on the mids as the woofers have to work more driving bass, you have a good point in there
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
Some of the speakers I auditioned, the ML Motion's to be specific and the Triton 3 Plus have great bass reproduction and the sub won't be needed, the bass is actually very very detailed, when you listed to these and you switch back to the CM10 for example definitely you lose a lot of bass but the clarity and sound of the mids and highs it is better. That's why I thought adding a sub will balance the proportion.
I tried the CM10's with a sub they had at the store and the bass was not good as with the ML motions but it may be that the sub used was low quality, it was a ML if I'm not mistaken but one of the entry level ones.
I will take a look at the AA's,
Listen man, it's your money and your ears. You're free to decide what you want, but hear me out for only two points:
a) Only Motion tower in your budget is lowest/smallest model - ML Motion 20. It's spec'd to get down to 46hz +/- 3db. That's not what I consider deep bass at all. Even my crappy tSc TS2 reach down to 32hz
46hz would be OK for most music, but you'd still need a sub for action movies
b) I couldn't find measurements for 20, but I did found em for it's more expensive and bigger 40 and tbh they are not very impressive (see purple trace)

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/martinlogan-motion-40-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#Eo6GvCscwWmJ9vc7.97


The Motion 40’s listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +2.25/–4.34 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The –3-dB point is at 48 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 40 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 3.48 ohms at 111 Hz and a phase angle of –44.04 degrees at 69 Hz.
Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/martinlogan-motion-40-speaker-system-ht-labs-measures#dBh8uZopSlxDt7i3.99
 
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
I'm listening, I'm ignorant in these matters, what is exactly you are saying? I'm missing your point, I think you are confirming the Motion's are not that good bass related?. BTW I started mentioning this is only used for music there are no plans for HT application at the moment, I have a separate receiver for that.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
BSA's recommendation of the AAs + good sub will give you a better overall experience even for music than a comparable tower. You'd need to spend a lot more on towers to beat that combo IMO.

I'd try to listen to even more speakers before deciding and don't lock yourself into towers. IMO, even with most towers a good sub is still a benefit, at which point you can look for a better bookshelf and then you arrive at the above recommendation.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
IMO, even with vast majority towers a good sub is still a benefit, at which point you can look for a better bookshelf and then you arrive at the above recommendation.
FTFY. Check out recently reviewed Paradigm Prestige on the AH frontpage. While review is subjective, I get the feeling reviewer knows what he is talking bout (pun intended - canadian speakers) even by ear lack of bass extension was noticeable on $3000 towers.

Please read the thread I linked to above. I don't want to type it all over again.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
You are correct there is no crossover in the amp just the pre out for an active subwoofer. What would you say is ideally for this setup?

Adding that an active subwoofer with a built in x-over should re mediate this correct?

Adding: Of course all lows will go to the speakers as well and this affects clarity on the mids as the woofers have to work more driving bass, you have a good point in there
Some subs actually have both a high pass filter as well as a low pass filter and may be limited in connection method. Some subs incorrectly label a simple low pass filter as a "crossover" with no way to apply a high pass filter for your speakers.

I prefer bass management so I control the point at which my subs and speakers trade duties, and even my relatively capable towers still get crossed at 120 as my subs are much more capable of those frequencies over that of the speakers, plus the subs can be placed appropriately around the room as necessary for best room response, whereas with L/R speakers you're kinda stuck with their positioning for higher frequencies.
 
L

Luis Vaz

Enthusiast
Heard the Definitve Technology Mythos ST-L, great sound, don't know if you guys have any comments on these?
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
It is all about what sounds good to you, and what is good enough for you.

No one can speak for your ears - However, I would still put bookshelf speakers
joined by a sub on a short list.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
Heard the Definitve Technology Mythos ST-L, great sound, don't know if you guys have any comments on these?
Luis,
> You admit you're "ignorant in these matters".
> Everybody is directing you toward bookshelves & a sub in your budget.
> Yet you keep going back to towers.

I'm not sure if there's benefit in continuing this discussion. You seem to want towers, regardless of the advice given. So I just say good luck and I hope you enjoy your new system.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Luis....I opted for towers vs. bookshelves...I prefer lookng at a full speaker from the ground up..hence why I switched from a monitor. Good advice had been offered .....imo whether you go tower or monitor..I would not want to forgo the sub. You'll have to decide what suits your preferences....others may respectfully disagree but it sounds like you've already decided what you want and answered your own question...JMO.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
For me, for music ONLY, I would tend toward towers too. I'd still have a sub though :) In the price category in question though, that's a tougher call - can I get significantly better bookshelf speaker than a comparably priced tower? This price point, if factoring in a sub, it could go either way and may come down to listening. Nothing wrong with towers at all.
 

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