First stage--decide on driver....need feedback.

[Matt34]

For this build. Bash 500 and LT550 as well, but then I'm close to EP2500 price territory.
This is a starter, but don't want a complete lack of performance.
I could even use a cheaper, not as good driver if I can get decent results.
This is for learning and enjoyment.
When I get this under my belt I will try a second being the opposite of this, so sealed now ported next or vice-a-versa.

Within a year or so I will go dual 15" with a nice pro amp and performance only driven.

I'd still go with the EP2500 so you don't buy twice (future proof) and find a used sub or maybe a discounted one at Partsexpress, if your just looking to test your abilities.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I've thought of that, but I had a hard time yesterday and today finding anything online that is any good used for sale...sub-wize.(EP2500-wise too)
I went on a discounted drivers and amps hunt and came up nearly empty besides the NHT 10's, eD 13ov.2's and the VT3 amp. Nothing on classifieds on any of the sites, nor on audiogon or fleabay. A few new ones from less than reputable dealers though.

 

[Matt34]

I've thought of that, but I had a hard time yesterday and today finding anything online that is any good used for sale...sub-wize.(EP2500-wise too)
I went on a discounted drivers and amps hunt and came up nearly empty besides the NHT 10's, eD 13ov.2's and the VT3 amp. Nothing on classifieds on any of the sites, nor on audiogon or fleabay. A few new ones from less than reputable dealers though.

Doesn't ED still have some 13Kv.2 D4 subs discounted for $50 ea?

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

In my popst above yours I listed those as one of my few options I found.
I typed Ov.2 by accident.
Shame though as I owned the A5-350 with the 19ov.2 so this would be let down city. I know its a small budget first build, but I was hoping to get closer to the a5-350 if possible.
Perhaps two of them, but I think the 19ov.2 would still move more air and go lower. But 2-12's would be decent and can get them cheap.

 

[jinjuku]

How does the amplification power scenario change when you put a PEQ like the Behringer or the Elemental Designs e2.Q? I understand that each 3db gained is a doubling in peak power to get that gain. But if I have a 500 Watt RMS speaker and a 500watt amp how is the speaker going to handle a +3db/6db increase in power?

 

[WmAx]

How does the amplification power scenario change when you put a PEQ like the Behringer or the Elemental Designs e2.Q? I understand that each 3db gained is a doubling in peak power to get that gain. But if I have a 500 Watt RMS speaker and a 500watt amp how is the speaker going to handle a +3db/6db increase in power?

A 500W driver, thermally, can easily withstand 1000W for short periods, as would be the case with transients in actual music. 500W is a continuous thermal rating, in this hypothetical case. That driver can even take more than 1000W in transients without damage, as long as the mechanical limit of excursion is not exceeded.

I test drivers all of the time and as a radical example: the 4" mid used in the Primus 360 could withstand well over 100 watts of music program over a long period of play time with no damage, and it could withstand transients of 240 watts with no damage. This driver is probably rated at about 25-40 watts continous thermal, FYI.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

amp wise

if you are looking for bang for the buck, i don't see anything better than the Behringer EP2500 right now.

the Crown K2 measures the same as the EP2500 but is at least 4x-5x the price
the Yamaha Pro Amps are about twice the price, no measurement, should have better quality than Behringer, but WmAx says the fans come on only when needed (unlike continuously on the Behringers), and looks a LOT nicer.

Actually, the Behringer measures superior into all loads. And the Behringer has over a >15dB better signal-to-noise ratio.

-Chris

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I have a new battle plan that I need your assistance with.
I have decided that I would like to start with midrange bass build.
I have 6" identical drivers on all my speakers.
I'm thinking dual 10" drivers for this.
I want to focus on 30Hz-100Hz output and SQ.
Looking for something that will later blend with a ported 15" or 18" low end set-up as my next project.

I don't need to keep output from 30Hz-100Hz limited in anyway to help the blend do I?
Would sealed or ported be preferred for this application?
Which drivers are good for this application?(can't find much talk at all on anything under 15" in DIY forums--some 12"ers)

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a new battle plan that I need your assistance with.
I have decided that I would like to start with midrange bass build.
I have 6" identical drivers on all my speakers.
I'm thinking dual 10" drivers for this.
I want to focus on 30Hz-100Hz output and SQ.
Looking for something that will later blend with a ported 15" or 18" low end set-up as my next project.

I don't need to keep output from 30Hz-100Hz limited in anyway to help the blend do I?
Would sealed or ported be preferred for this application?
Which drivers are good for this application?(can't find much talk at all on anything under 15" in DIY forums--some 12"ers)

I modeled just what you need for another member. You have a choice of an 8 or 10 inch drivers. The data is on my web site.

http://www.drmarksays.com/?p=25

I would place the crossover at 80 Hz 24 db per octave roll off.

Any questions please ask.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I do love JL's sound.
I'll read it and get back to you, thanks.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

They both power hungry little buggers huh? Low sensitivity ratings.
Does the JL have that 35Hz due to the design or is it the limitation of the driver?(not sure if this is even accurate but I owned an x-sub for a short time after my A5-350) and it was 28Hz with an inferior driver)

Have you heard these or just modeled?

 

[TLS Guy]

They both power hungry little buggers huh? Low sensitivity ratings.
Does the JL have that 35Hz due to the design or is it the limitation of the driver?(not sure if this is even accurate but I owned an x-sub for a short time after my A5-350) and it was 28Hz with an inferior driver)

Have you heard these or just modeled?

There is unfortunately an inverse ratio between Fs and efficiency and therefore sensitivity. However 500 watt amps are no longer cost prohibitive. If you use a 250 watt amp you can still achieve 107db spl!

I think there is a tendency to grossly over estimate the spl required from subs on these forums. My bass amps barely get warm and yet my speakers shake the floor enough to worry about its structural integrity!

I have not heard the unit, however sub modeling is very acuarate and I'm confident that what you see is what you will get.

If you build the JL I think you will have a pretty compact sub that you will not best with a commercial one of that size. It should fit your requirements fine.

 

[E-A-G-L-E-S]

I agree. 100-110dB @ 20Hz is good for my low end.
So 105-120db is good for my mains and midbass.

One question, what issues does this bring up as far as how it incoporates into my system? Will I need more gear than I have?
Yamaha RX-V661

I could use a BASH300 or LT/350 or O-audio bash which was tested at ~450w/RMS or a BASH500.

 

[TLS Guy]

I agree. 100-110dB @ 20Hz is good for my low end.
So 105-120db is good for my mains and midbass.

One question, what issues does this bring up as far as how it incoporates into my system? Will I need more gear than I have?
Yamaha RX-V661

I could use a BASH300 or LT/350 or O-audio bash which was tested at ~450w/RMS or a BASH500.

The speaker with any of those amps should be fine. The 500 will get it to max spl.

 

[WmAx]

They both power hungry little buggers huh? Low sensitivity ratings.
Does the JL have that 35Hz due to the design or is it the limitation of the driver?(not sure if this is even accurate but I owned an x-sub for a short time after my A5-350) and it was 28Hz with an inferior driver)

Have you heard these or just modeled?

If you are referring to the JL W7, this is the only JL worth considering for ultra-small cabinets, yet retaining the outputs and sound quality of a significantly larger woofer. I have some of the 8" W7 units, and they remain linear,with no significant distortion from what I can discern, for roughly 1.5" peak to peak excursion, and they can go to about 2" before mechanical failure, but past the 1.5" point, distortion does become rather audible. It is an incredible 8" driver. Actually, I don't know of any 8" unit from any other manufacturer with similar capabilities while retaining sound quality. The only other 'was' by TC Sounds; but they are no longer in existence.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

I have not heard the unit, however sub modeling is very acuarate and I'm confident that what you see is what you will get.

Modeling is only accurate beyond low power simulations, with the huge assumption, that the driver is linear in both motor force and suspension reactant, at high power/excursion, as compared to low power/excursion. It is safer to assume that most drivers are not going to remain linear beyond moderate power and excursion. However, the JL W7 drivers are extraordinary in this respect; they have incredible motors with proven measured linearity at extreme conditions. So, the moderate to high power modeling can be expected to be rather accurate here.

-Chris