Emotiva UMC-200 DAC vs Denon 3313

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by shizam1, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. shizam1 Audiophyte

    shizam1
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Looking for some thoughts/advice... I currently have a Denon 2310 that I use to drive Aperion Verus Grand Towers & Center.

    That receiver doesn't support passing 3D... and I now have a 3D projector and blu-ray player so I want to try that functionality out.

    Anyhow, a couple of choices are:

    Denon 2313 - pretty much same as what I have, just has 3D support
    Denon 3313 - a bit more power, possibliy better amplifier, and pre-outs
    Emotiva UMC-200 & XPA-5 - 3d and oodles of power.

    The only thing turning me off to the Emotiva UMC-200 is the review on this site that said the DAC wasn't that good compared to the Oppo DAC. So... I'm wondering how it compares to the ones in the Denon receivers?
  2. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    26,021
    Likes Received:
    5,581
    The Oppo costs twice the price of the UMC-200 and uses some pretty exemplary DACs. The review isn't saying the DACs in the UMC aren't good, they just aren't better than the ones in the Oppo. Gene pretty much said you will have a hard time finding anything that sounds better than the Oppo right now in his opinion.
  3. shizam1 Audiophyte

    shizam1
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the response. Any reason not to go with the Emotiva solution vs Denon 3313 if I only have HDMI sources?
  4. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    26,021
    Likes Received:
    5,581
    The 3313 won't have a better amp section than the XPA-5, so I'd choose the setup with the amp for speakers like that. If you get a lower Denon with pre-outs, you could still have a solid setup though, since you could still add an amp. I don't have experience with the Verus line, but the Grand towers are listed as 92dB sensitive and 6 Ohm, so a receiver might be able to handle them fine if you don't have a massive room and depending on your listening levels. Though I don't think SQ will be a significant difference between the two, just in terms of amplification, I don't think the Denon is going to give you the same performance for the price.
  5. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    2,067
    Location:
    38.89°N, 77.01°W
    One alternative would be going with the 3312 as it can still handle 3D, and add an external amp if you want more power.
  6. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    26,021
    Likes Received:
    5,581
    Best time to buy last year's model is when the new one comes out :) I saw a couple of threads saying the 3312 was going for around $500 when on sale? That's a good deal. I bought my dad a refurb 1912 and its a pretty good receiver.
  7. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    2,067
    Location:
    38.89°N, 77.01°W
    I can't claim to follow the pricing that closely, but I did see the 3312 refurbed at A4L for $599, which is what the UMC-200 is currently going for.
  8. shizam1 Audiophyte

    shizam1
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2013
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the good advice!
  9. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,641
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Most people are incapable of differentiating between DACs, with all things being (AVR vs AVR vs Pre-pro vs DAC vs Player).
  10. cpp Audioholic Field Marshall

    cpp
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    407
    Location:
    Coastal Fla ( somewhere south of Marineland
    r...i..g...h....t
    Bring your old self down my way, set back and listen while we watch the boaters on the lake as we demo and compare DAC vs player
    cpp,
  11. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,641
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Well, I haven't compared every player - only the players I've owned (from the $200 Oppo to the $2000 Denon players).

    Peter Aczel and the Audio Critic staff members have compared more players and DACs than all of us combined. And they also believe DACs and players sound mostly the same.
  12. cpp Audioholic Field Marshall

    cpp
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    407
    Location:
    Coastal Fla ( somewhere south of Marineland
    lets see, I read one DAC review on Audio Critic and than was in 2009. Nothing new since then ?
    cpp,
  13. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,641
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    After reviewing, measuring, comparing so many DAC, players, amps, preamps, I don't think Peter Aczel was remotely interested in doing anymore. TAC has not been reviewing anything since forever.

    DACs & players have only improved in technology since then. For example, the SNR of the bottom of the line DAC is like 112dB and the top of the line DAC is like 132dB. Yes, clearly there is a difference in spec. But even the bottom of the line is already excellent.

    I agree that certain applications are not as equal. I am not thrilled about the DAC in PCs and sound cards. But players from $200+ (like Oppo) and AVR from $600+ have solid DAC implementation.
  14. cpp Audioholic Field Marshall

    cpp
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    407
    Location:
    Coastal Fla ( somewhere south of Marineland
    Lots of changes, from 24 to 32 bit dacs, not to mention different chips offer new technologies like, DSD

    Agree sounds cards in PC's well I go this fancy sound card in my system and its marginal at best.
    cpp,
  15. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,641
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    Yes, specs may improve on paper. But I've never been able to tell the difference between DSD vs PCM when listening to SACD, and I doubt anybody could tell the difference between 24bit & 32bit.
  16. cpp Audioholic Field Marshall

    cpp
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,532
    Likes Received:
    407
    Location:
    Coastal Fla ( somewhere south of Marineland
    listen to it on a Sony xa5400es . I can tell the difference between my OPPO and the Sony playing a SACD disc but I think it's just the player and has nothing to do with PCM vs DSD.

    24 or 32 bits , agree the human ear is pretty much limited at 20bits
    cpp,
  17. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    414
    Location:
    SoCal
    32 bit does absolutely nothing unless you find yourself a 32 bit source
  18. j_garcia Audioholic Jedi

    j_garcia
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    26,021
    Likes Received:
    5,581
    LOTS of people complain about DSD being converted to PCM in some players and I can also say that I hear no difference.
  19. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    414
    Location:
    SoCal
    I've never listened to an SACD, so I can't really claim to make any playback comparison, but just looking at it from a technical aspect it is pretty amazingly dumb to do that. Makes SACD completely indistinguishable from DVDA, only far more restrictive to play.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  20. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2007
    Messages:
    19,641
    Likes Received:
    4,315
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    On my AVR's LCD, it will say "DSD Direct" or "Multi-Ch Direct" depending on how it is output from the player. I have compared both outputs many times. Absolutely no difference whatsoever.

Share This Page

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
  • CEDIA