Dream Theater (Help me with the best stuff)

Discussion in 'Projectors & Screens' started by MidnightSensi2, Dec 4, 2012.

  1. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

    MidnightSensi2
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    Got a friend who has way more money than me. Building a ground up room, he asked for my help...

    I've been really out of the loop lately, what's the best projector and acoustically transparent screen available now?

    Room is going to be dedicated, room within a room (isolated for sound), treated. After the room within a room is built, the front wall/screen wall dimensions are 12ft heigh by 16ft wide. The length is 23ft now, but we might adjust that due to the room modes.

    He wants at least 4k and 3D. Acoustically transparent screen is a must, was thinking either Stewart or DaLite.

    Money is no object in his words...but, I also don't want to put esoteric stuff in there or buy anything ripoff just to have the name. So, was thinking like a high end JVC with a Stewart screen?

    Ceiling and walls will be mostly black (I'm using acoustic cloth to hide all the treatments behind the walls ceiling and then wood trim). Light will be completely controlled. I would also have someone calibrate it once its setup.

    What are my options!?

    Best,
    Sensi
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  2. BoredSysAdmin Audioholic Warlord

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    Just tell him to pay BMX for flight, hotel and labor :) (If he's interested) Honestly, you and me know - project this magnitude needs an honest and experienced A/V consultant
    Just throwing money at the wall and hoping it will stick will not end-up with best solution.
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  3. jostenmeat Audioholic Spartan

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    A quickie right now, I'll come back later to add a few more pennies, due to both time constraint, and to get more feedback from you.

    A really big thing that people need to know is just HOW big. Why is that important: it may really, really narrow down PJ choices, and even screen choices.

    I don't think it'll be a problem, but go big enough, choices narrow down big time. For instance, the choice of screen, I think a lot of them have a max height- therefore you normally don't want to exceed that because there may be a visible seam. In fact, you may even lose height if the material is "tilted" to avoid moire. OTOH, you can extend size within that limitation by going anamorphic, this is dependent on relative width available. One thing you have to make sure is that devices chosen handle Vertical Stretch with 3D/1.4. I imagine by today there should be a number of devices that can.

    Stewart, Dalite, SMX, whoever else, they all microperf the screen AFAIK. This requires that your speakers are considerably* far away from the material, to reduce the comb filtering effects. Where is the advantage you ask? It's that you can basically perforate many types of screen material, in case you wanted to go with high gain, gray, what have you.

    Then what most AHers have, and what I'd recommend, is a weave, and that's pretty much Seymour CenterStage XD, or Screen Excellence Enlightor 4K. Even the latter has Chris Seymour's fingerprints all over it. Interestingly, the former is still capable of resolving 4K and even past it. It will provide you with more pop. What's the advantage of the latter, you can almost approach arm's length of it, and still not detect texture. But at your distance, you might want the former. I think George Lucas uses it. And BTW, it's available as DIY fabric, and there are a number of us here who went that way including yours truly. Oh now you can get at least as close as 1" away with speakers. I think the 4K might be 0.5"? Not sure.

    If you prefer a different material, and go micorperf, make sure to ask around that moire is not an issue with 4K in particular.

    I've been a big fan of BMX's contributions for as long as I can remember, and that said, I was originally thinking of hiring people like Dennis Erskine. He's done a lot of hi end setups.

    My biggest immediate concern is the room within a room, make sure that the design passes with flying colors by acousticians, look into the "triple leaf effect", making sure the cavity is large enough that you don't make things even worse than before.

    Reading for you:
    Significance of Air Cavity Depth & Triple Leaf Effect - Soundproofing

    BTW, that's Ted White's stuff there, and if you start a thread in the Dedicated Theater Construction subforum at AVS, I bet he'll see it. Erskine is usually hanging out too. Haven't visited in a while, I can't promise you, but I'd be surprised if otherwise. Also, for the items list, you can start a query in the Ultra High End +20k subforum as well.

    If in fact you guys are going FARGIN' BIG, the Enlightor 4K is available at professional level sizes. EDIT: I'm wrong, that is NOT the 4K material- ask about it I suppose, the Enlightor 3. So, yes we need to look into possible height limitations.

    Movie Partner

    That's it for now.
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  4. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    A dream theater has to have custom speakers IMO. Make sure you get TLS to make you some while BMX does the video stuff. :D

    In all seriousness there are so many ways to go, but money doesn't always equal quality. So be careful what you buy.
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  5. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

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  6. jostenmeat Audioholic Spartan

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    Why? Friendly warning, you're about to get a really big BMX smackdown. And I quote, "Avoid Runco. You will regret any Runco purchase, period."

    Do they even make a 3D 4K projector? If they do, I bet you it is a rebadged unit at an enormous markup.

    Wait a second, is there really only one single PJ that is both 4K and 3D?? The Sony VPL-VW1000ES. 25K msrp.

    Sony Projectors: Sony VPL-VW1000ES SXRD projector

    OK, sweet, Feierman reviewed it! (It is very important to get 3rd parry measurements of lumens, because they are overrated as badly as anything in the AV world.)

    Sony VPL-VW1000ES Projector Performance

    Anyway, to continue, a few calcs:

    Biggest we can fit at 16' wide? Perhaps 15' wide screen?

    15' (180") wide = 206" diagonal at 1.78 AR. Total area is 18121.64 sq in, or 125.8 sq ft.

    *height is 100.9" or 8.408'.

    Biggest fixed frame sold by Seymour AV prebuilt is 193.4" ($2079). Or 15973.37 sq in, or almost 12% smaller than the "biggest you could fit". I wouldn't call 110 sq ft tiny though.

    That gives you roughly 40 deg viewing angle at 19 ft away. (I prefer slighltly more, but 40 deg is a good standard.) Here is "biggest you could fit" vs "only 193.4": http://tvcalculator.com/index.html?08de595a91c56605be007fda385a195f


    1176 post calibrated lumens / 110 sq ft = 10.67 foot lamberts. You want brighter than this, unfortunately, and then when considering 3D implications . . . ? You either have to go smaller, or ummm, you don't really have PJ choices it seems to me right now. EDIT: The boldfaced calculation assumes a unity gain screen; the XD is .94 gain on-axis (the off axis is almost exactly as good, .93), and the SE 4K is even dimmer than this.

    You can consider the anamorphic route to increase the 2.35 brightness by about 25%, however, your 1.78 AR ratio much smaller now. Judgment call on your behalf.


    An aesthetic thought, if you're hiding all the treatments with speaker cloth, you might as well do the same for all of the surround speakers. There is a pretty sweet SMX setup that does precisely that as I recall, using these rounded pillars. I can probably go track some pics down if you desire, let me know.


    Parting thought: PJ will be in some hush box or something on the back wall that will also allow it to remain cool, maybe? Just wondering. The brighter the PJ, the louder it is, and here you will need a really really bright PJ, which might turn out to be a really really loud one too. EDIT: Good news on the Sony, scroll to bottom of Feierman review, he says it's very very quiet.
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2012
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  7. psbfan9 Audioholic Samurai

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    They seem to get good reviews, depending on model. I don't believe they do 4k but they do 3D.
  8. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

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    Wow, thanks for all the help! And yes, I will of course have professionals take a look. Main thing is he heard my system and what the installers have shown him didn't wow him... so he's asked me for some help. Likely I'll get a professional acoustical engineer and someone to calibrate the projector. I think Jeff from JTR can handle the audio setup. I'd recommend this guy fly him in and put him up during the install.

    I think having some space on either side of the screen is reasonable (for access to the rear, curtains, etc.) Also since we're pushing the lumens... Seymours H150 is 12.5' wide, with a 172.1" diagonal. I think in that room that would look pretty huge... That would help that Sony do it's job and leaves about 1.75' on either side.

    Does Stewart or DaLite make anything comparable? Looking on their website is a mindf**k with all the different materials.


    Is like 12" or so far enough away from a microperf screen? I was planning on making the area behind the screen pretty roomy. Wanted to fit three large JTR mains and four to six subwoofers in a bass array for coupling.


    ...

    The hiding the sides and rears inside pillars is a great idea. JTR has some low profile models that might work well for that.

    He wants movie posters... and the designer put those right along the wall of the theater (yikes! reflective!).... was thinking of having the movie posters printed on acoustic clothe and then use focusing/gobo lights to frame them when the lights come up.
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2012
  9. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

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    The reality remains that moire patterns on microperf screens is an isssue. Stewart is the one company that is battling this and is truly in touch with keeping on top of the technologies available to them.

    STEWART FILMSCREEN - Microperf X²

    But, that said - they are pricey, and for the most part... pointless.

    Seymour figured it out. Woven screens look fantastic and perform well with superior audio performance while still delivering a screen material that is ideal for full detail in the resolutions which people are leaning towards.

    At a far better price than others, and the option of prefab or a welcoming attitude for the custom/DiY setup. They aren't just a breath of fresh air, they are the Carada of acoustically transparent screens. Good attitude, a focus on direct sales, and a level of performance which isn't just exceptional, it is superior. They are who should be used.

    If you want Stewart -then buy a logo and put it on the Seymour screen, it will serve everyone better.

    I'm not sure if I missed it, but screen size continues to be based upon viewing distance with a bit of viewer preference. A middle of the theater look is achieved with a screen width that is .66x the viewing distance. So, at 12' viewing, you want a 8' wide screen in 16:9 format.

    But - going ultimate... I think we would be talking about a motorized anamorphic sled and a 2.35 screen. The room certainly seems to have the width to support this and the budget to put in the right lens/sled combo to do 2.35 properly.

    I really struggle with the 4K request. Not that it isn't a great concept - but the product doesn't exist. It is extraordinarily limiting to demand a product that is only made by a couple of manufacturers when those products may not fit the installation that is being conceived of.

    If it was a 100" to 120" screen, then a typical high quality projector for home theater with 4k resolution would be more than adequate. But, in a larger screening room - and that is what this sounds like - you need a projector with the balls to deliver the lumens on screen that leave people going 'Wow!' - whether it is in 2D mode or 3D mode.

    With that in mind, I would recommend Digital Projection which is one of a handful of companies that can deliver 1080p, 3D, and the lumens to fill a larger than normal screen size with full support of pretty much anything thrown at it. I would call them and ask about what they may have as 4K offerrings coming up.

    A big issue with 4K is that chip manufacturers don't support resolutions yet. So, you are paying a lot for functionality that doesn't exist and you may impact final performance due to this lack of support right now. In a few years we may see 4K really start rolling, then we will have good chip sets which support whatever 4K sources actually come to market.

    Then the conundrum: Do you get a high quality 1080p 3D projector which can really deliver the best image right now on screen, or do you get one which is less money with the plan to upgrade down the road? Neither choice is wrong, but the better 1080p projector will cost a lot more today than what others may cost.

    My personal favorite for a killer bright 3D performance projector:
    Projector Detail

    You get the lumens you need for a large screen with 3D support and the right lens for the job is available. Oh, and from a projector which is extremely quiet.

    Now, if you are getting into more serious horsepower, like one of these:
    Projector Detail

    You are going to pay a very high amount and will have a noisy projector which is pretty much untouchable in performance. You MUST put this type of product into a projection room behind the theater. Much like commercial cinema - the projector noise is completely removed from the viewing environment. Not a bad way to go no matter what if the space allows for it.

    I'm not going to go on about Runco - I've done that before. Their lack of customer support over the years and willingness to tout their products with inferior build quality and far lower than market reliability is something I don't buy into. They talk a good game, and when (WHEN!) their stuff works right it can look good, but it is like buying a exotic sports car... Drives great, looks good, but you better know a good mechanic and be ready to deal with the headaches and expenses associated. More often then not, taking a different course of action is the best decision when you only have one home theater. (most people with an exotic sports car have a second car available!)

    Finally, don't forget to put in a decent remote. I typically put a basic Crestron system into any room I do - and this, as a nicer space, would demand nothing less. Make it easy enough so that the in-laws, wife, and kids can use it without screwing it up.

    The rest of the design work needs to be carefully planned - lighting is often one of my biggest complaints in a home theater (not enough lighting), and the proper acoustics for everything. So, having a builder who knows what they heck they are doing matters.

    All this said - Sony makes awesome projectors. They know their stuff and are in the game from better low end to commercial level high end. Their VW1000ES is certainly a statement which leads the industry:
    Sony Projectors: Sony VPL-VW1000ES SXRD projector

    But, just like Sony led the way with 1080p projectors out of the gate, these models will improve in performance and drop in price, likely by about 80%, over the next five years. So, you can get similar, or better specifications in five years for under $5,000. A jump from 1080p to 4K resolution does not necessitate a 10 fold price increase. It just is what they can charge being the first to market.

    1080p now - 4K in half a decade and give the old projector away. It doesn't just make finanacial sense - it makes sense. We have no 4K sources and depending on screen size and viewing distance, there may be no actual noticable improvement of 4K over 1080p.
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  10. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

    MidnightSensi2
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    Damn you guys are awesome. Appreciate the help so much. Plus I love this, looking at all this high end stuff with realists. He says his budget is whatever, but the way I look at it...more money doesn't always make it better. So, I want to give him a badass setup that's a good value EVEN THOUGH it's expensive, rather than just being expensive. You guys get it without it even being explained. That's why this forum is the best.

    That makes two of you. Okay, sold on Seymour.



    I actually forgot to put that, but, yes, the front row is positioned 12' from the screen tentatively. Front row is 12'-3" I remember, then second and third rows I need to check on. I'll get back to you on that, plans are on my other laptop.

    I told him that the projector and sources would outdate themselves first. If 4k isn't here, let's not use it. He can get a 4k later. I mean, I don't see content for it. Screen looks like it's going to be a solid 160-180" ... I just know he is going to want huge. I'm going to have the conversation with him tomorrow about this..because...I know at my 11' viewing distance my 106" screen is pretty powerful. So, either he can move the seats back (which is very doable) and go bigger... or he needs to start to consider what is going to be 'comfortable' ...

    I think an anamorphic sled setup 1080p with kickass performance might be a good place to start. Then when 4k comes, he can get 4k.

    I'm going to do some math tomorrow and start to narrow things down. I know he is going to want the biggest people can stand though... I just know it.



    High quality now, but nothing that doesn't have support, warranty, or is esoteric. Want something where if there is a problem he can get replacement parts, bulbs, etc. Cost isn't an issue.

    Sound might be an issue, I want the noise floor very low. We would build in the projector regardless, and can provide cooling/AC... so it sounds like this is a good option:





    Yeah, he has two full time Crestron and AMX certified programmers on staff. They do the commercial business and his private stuff. So, we're set there.

    Yeah, this is where I'm going to help him. I saw the builder had lighting cans in there. High end ones...but, rattle machines. I'm likely going to used focused LED lighting.

    Okay...so... Sony makes me feel much more confortable than Digital Projection because Sony is a big company... how do the two compare?
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  11. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

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    Sony doesn't have the lumens for a large screen with their VW1000ES - it will handle maybe 120" or so, and that would be about as big as I would go.

    Digital Projection is a 'Stewart' type company. They aren't esoteric as much as they are high end and they tend to be very well respected in the industry. I've chosen them over more mainstream manufacturers when the budget has allowed, and they have been around for a number of years and STILL support the very first model projector that they ever released. So, unlike Sony which truly stops supporting older models within a few years, these guys believe in the long term support of their products.

    Sim2 also does this with their projectors, though I am less familiar with them over the years.

    Take a look at the Digital Projection website which I linked above. They are a regular presenter at CEDIA every year, and typically have one of the better booths - mostly a completely blacked out and enclosed area with killer projectors inside of it. But, more importantly, about half the booths that need projectors will use Digital Projection projectors in their setups. They really are a leading high-end company. Similarly, Stewart is often the go-to custom front projection company, but I would still opt for Seymour for acoustically transparent in a dark room.

    As you peruse the Digital Projection website you will find that each model they have has about a dozen or more variants - not including the lens options. So, they truly have a projector for about every need.

    Pricier for sure - but IMO, one of the best of the high-end companies on the market.
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  12. jostenmeat Audioholic Spartan

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    Ok, I'm glad you have some math to do, because I was about to say something like, "I'm not ignoring you, I just don't have time right now", kind of thing. You bought me some time, you see I need to prepare some festivities for tonight. :D

    The 12'... you said room is like 23' was it? If so, 14.26' is 38% length (from back wall in this case), which is best for evening of axial modes, but that % can lower a tad with the inclusion of other modes. Perhaps start there?

    I can assure you 100% that if I had a scope setup, my viewing angle would increase dramatically. There is at least one AHer here using anamorphic glass, and as I recall it's significantly past 50 deg viewing angle. I bet mine would be similar if I did something like that.

    I will try to calculate what the ensuing 1.78 AR would result as, if BMX doesn't provide that for you in the meanwhile.

    For glass, if things haven't changed, take a look at ISCO III for some high end glass, and perhaps Panamorph for slightly less. You can go cheaper, but the scope lens is like the vinyl turntable of the PJ world: your money does* pay off here.

    I'll let you figure out what you need between DP and Sim2. I will say that of my very limited wanderings with them, that DP does seem more affordable. They both will offer the greatest brightness for this level, as they are 3 chip dlps you'll be looking at.

    Oh yeah, no time to look it up right now, and apparently we've convinced you already, but with microperfs, I don't think 1' is enough, I thought it was more like few or even several feet, but it's been a while . . .

    So anyway, my next post will probably do with more specific screen size at 14+ ft, or whatever figure you give in the meanwhile. If multiple rows, I'd go fargin big in the front row, as you can always choose the row to sit in based on pref.

    Oh yes, a pic of the SMX setup with the hidden surrounds. This was a garage believe it or not, you may have seen it before. I hope the pic shows, because it's grabbed off of AVS. (Tell me if it doesn't, thanks.) Hey, the speakers do look pretty close to this microperf- I wonder how much comb filtering he suffers. Anyway, besides the point right now . . .

    [​IMG]
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  13. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

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    What's street price on the dVision 35 XB with lens?

    Looks like that's the best option. It seems to be able to handle the screen size and also I like that it has rs232 control for modes so when the programmers setup the lighting can have movie mode settings, sports mode settings (ambient light), etc. Seems like can adjust the settings WITH FEEDBACK to the controller for ideal based on what they are watching/light levels.

    First row is at 12', second row is at roughly 17', row three is a bar and like 20' from the screen. I'm going to suggest the rows move back. Room is like 30', but the back has a big stairway in and opposite side is a wet bar.

    Yeah, the beauty of multiple rows is can set one up to what most people would like and then have the front row be the row for "those crazy 'big' kids" hehe.

    I will try to calculate what the ensuing 1.78 AR would result as, if BMX doesn't provide that for you in the meanwhile.

    This is where I get confused... I understand what an interchangeable lens is, but not sure about the brands, how to decide what to use. Seems like the 1.6 - 2.32 fits the bill for ceiling mounted in there. Then I'd need a 16:9 and an anamorphic on a motorized sled? Yikes.

    What about a motorized top and bottom of the screen instead of the anamorphic lens? Seems like a less cumbersome way of getting rid of the black bars.

    Wow, okay. Yeah, the Seymour seems to be the way to go. Why doesn't Stewart do a weave then?

    Nod. I think 14ft width would be the max because the largest Seymour is about that.

    That's amazing. Yeah, I'll likely put some lights behind the screen. Some wide beam LED par cans. I'd likely order the JTRs with flyware so I could hang them from a truss that's behind the screen. That would make adjusting the height, taking them down, etc. a lot easier. Also look cool when the lights behind the screen came on showing the speakers and room treatments. (those lights would also expose the wall treatments and hidden speakers).

    Coolness, thanks guys.
  14. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

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    A 12' wide screen... roughly 165" diagonal.

    First row: 1.2 = 14.4ft away
    Second row: 1.5 = 18ft away

    Leaves 2' on either side of the screen, front row gets a pretty intense seating, second row is more along the lines of the 1.5 typical. Last row is more casual seating, like a bar facing the screen for snacks and stuff.

    Sounds like that's the same 1.6 - 2.32 zoom lens... leaves me with just short of 600 lux at 24ft throw.

    I can have the subwoofers be below the screen which allows me to tuck the screen back a bit. Have 2' behind there, plenty of room to get the speakers and treatment in.
  15. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

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    The dVision 35-1080p XB-3D lists for $26,995 - could probably do about 10% off of that, without a lens.

    Their 1.6->2.32:1 lens runs $2,500 - it is their least expensive lens.

    I would be looking at something like a Panamorph lens which is very well rated to not cause aberrations on screen from the lens. Put it on one of their motorized (and controllable) sleds, and then use a motorized set of dark/black drapes to come in when the screen is in 1.78 mode instead of 2.35 mode.

    They do have a calculator which should be pretty close for throw distance on the Projector Central site:

    Digital Projection dVision 30 1080p XB Projection Calculator - Throw Distance and Screen Size

    Choose lens 4 of 5, which is the proper lens. (104-086) Their zoom ratios are close, but not exact, at the extents, so if the setup puts it close to any zoom extent, please double check with manufacturer specification.

    With a 168" x 71" tall screen (2.35) you would have a 183" diagonal. - about a 50 degree viewing angle at 15' viewing distance.

    That would leave a 126" x 71" screen in 1.78 format with a 145" diagonal and a 39 degree viewing angle from the same 15'. That's just about right for what I would consider an immersive environment with a good deal of impact.

    The projector would need to be 17 to 24 feet, lens to screen, for this type of setup, with the lens specified.
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  16. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

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  17. jostenmeat Audioholic Spartan

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    1. 5' between rows is not enough, at least not for seating (recliners) worth putting in an ultimate theater. I think 6' will probably be bare minimum, and in fact more would be evidently welcome as my guess once you see for yourself. I think the term for distance between the same point between two rows might be called "seat pitch". You have the length for sure, give them more space, even if back row backs up too close to bar for acoustics' sake. Comfort still wins in the end for 99/100 people. Ease of getting in/out maybe, not asking others to pull their recliner in so that you can exit (you might have to anyway even with greater distance). You get my drift. Maybe acoustically treat front of bar if this is an issue.

    2. I didn't see/figure what viewing distance the angles BMX calculated for, maybe the front row, but wherever that is, I'd be sitting there 9 out of every 10 movies, and I give it my "BALLER" stamp of approval.

    3. It's not just Stewart, I could not tell you why *anyone else* does not make a weave.

    4. Ok lastly, the anamorphic setup. It does a CIH or Constant Image Height. The only way to do that withOUT the lens is by rezooming and refocusing between the different ARs. You'd hopefully have separate calibrations for each there, and you'd lose out on one of the biggest benefits, maybe the biggest in fact, of using the glass which is not using full PJ brightness potential. Regularly, you lose about 25% of PJ's ability with black bars. The glass let's you use 100% or 99.9% or whatever.

    OK first of all imagine the 2.35 wide screen, ok? You fire 16:9 where it sits right in the middle of it, right? Two large unused spaces, one on each side, right?

    Now without touching anything at all, nothing, fire the widescreen image, a 2.35 image. You now have unused areas on *all four sides*. Right?

    Now the glass distorts the image to make it wider. Like "fat people" wide (no more blank areas on sides). But it ends up fine because one of your devices, could be a video processor, maybe an Oppo, maybe a prepro, does what is called Vertical Stretch first (no more blank areas above/below). So there is distortion to pull image vertically, then glass pulls horizontally. (Not everything has V.S., and I mentioned before, make sure that it doesn't just say Vertical Stretch, but that it can do it in the domain of HDMI 1.4 for your 3D too!)

    So because glass is a distortion device, you want it to distort as perfectly as possible, and don't skimp here, well that's definitely the impression I have. That said, I'd be stoked on a Panamorph for sure if it was my own setup, but for your friend's, I guess I'd ask BMX more pointedly about his opinion on the diminishing returns on an ISCO III or something, you know.

    I hope I was clear enough, please ask on any point if I wasn't. Also, the sled doesn't have* to be motorized, you could manually throw it over, just FYI, but still, go with the motorized.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  18. jostenmeat Audioholic Spartan

    jostenmeat
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    I probably didn't need to go into the A-lens so much in retrospect, but anyway... Maybe more about the pros/cons, and not so much how it works...

    A nice thing is that you can get pretty ideal (and big) immersion with both ARs from the exact same seat, with the minimum amount of fuss. Being too large in the vertical sense is more challenging than the horizontal sense, IMO, at least for movies. And the other cheap method of zoom / focus / calibration is a lot more fuss IMO, and you'll want to recalibrate both ARs every time it needs to be done.

    Also, the riser heights don't need to be nearly as dramatic while still having your more expansive screen size at the same time. If say you had a 7' seat pitch just for discussion's sake, by the time you hit 3rd row, their heads could be near the ceiling with an enormous 1.78 screen for instance.

    Not to again mention the increased brightness by 25% of 2.35 AR you get with lens, comparing exact same image sizes of either method.

    If you do go with A lens, and that if you want masking panels on the side, you'll have to look into speaker placements that still work with them on or off, and look into manual vs motorized. If you use AT masking panels, they can't be as dark of course. However, unlike a typical setup (without A-lens), there isn't any light being fired directly on to those areas, so I must presume it's just not as critical.


    Then say you're still scratching head, start wondering out loud here, hey what about the old fashioned 1.78, let's just forget the rezoom/refocus, forget the lens and stretch? The REAL BIG immersion that your friend wants with say 2.35, all the way to heart's content... well then, when he puts on a 1.78 AR instead, he'll have to move to a back row. It does depend on the definition of REAL BIG, but if that does happen to mean 50+ deg, it definitely is (and as I said, that's where I'd surely go with a scope lens). OTOH, say 1.78 is perfect from the front row for any given person, and now you super-size it width-wise on the 2.35 screen: the chances that they move to a back row will be slim to none in my estimation, in this case. It's easier to expand horizontally than vertically, IMO.

    What say you, BMX?
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  19. MidnightSensi2 Audioholic Chief

    MidnightSensi2
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    Makes sense to me what your saying about vertical versus horizontal expansion.

    A constant height screen, to me, would be coolest, but Seymour doesn't seem to make a motorized system. I love the manual panels myself, lol, less to break lol, but, he'll want a motorized one.

    Vutec does:
    Screen material: SoundScreen
    Frame/system: AutoMask-V

    Says woven too!

    Up to 156" .... just short of 12ft.

    Actually my screen is a VuTec. Made here in Florida. Nice screen. Looks good with my Epson anyways.
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  20. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

    BMXTRIX
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    Somewhere in the Seymour site they actually say that their screens are compatible with the Carada Masquerade system.

    MasqueradeCIH.aspx

    So, they use a lesser expensive, but very high quality masking system, from ANOTHER manufacturer to allow people to get the full CIH AT A-lens setup. We'll have another dozen anacronyms for you before this is all over. :D

    There are very few times I would recommend or go CIH anamorphic - but this space sounds ideal for it.
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