Do we really need Audyssey MultEQ xt32? Smart decision??? What I hear ...

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by bizmord, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. bizmord Audioholic

    bizmord
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    Hi guys,


    So, I completely restored my Denon 4311 to factory settings and decided to NOT do the automatic set up with Audyssey just to see what kind of sound I get and sound I get is pretty good. It seems like before, after running Audyssey, it would tone down the highs due to my room bouncy acoustics, thus possibly harming the sound.


    Question is .... am I really missing anything if I opt out of auto set up??? Other than Dynamic Volume control.


    The only things I changed manually were...


    Sub frequency 120
    Crossover 90
    Speakers set to small
    Speaker distance measured manually
    Channel volume ... due to no SPL meter had to do it by ear.




    Have any of you opted out of automatic calibration systems that came with your receivers???
  2. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    I'm not a big fan of Audyssey level setting and their crossover frequencies often don't give me the best results, but it does do a few things well, like set the delay. So no, I don't think MultEQ 32 is absolutely necessary.

    SubEQ is a different story.
  3. bizmord Audioholic

    bizmord
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    Do you know of a way to get these things working (Sub EQ, dynamic volume option, etc) and turning off Audyssey? Is it that function that I saw on remote for MultiEQ that after pressing multiple times you get to Audyssey OFF. Would that be as if I never ran it in the first place? Also ... if I choose not to run any of those auto set ups, does that mean that now most receivers in upper range dollar value will start sounding very similar to one another?

    I still got my Yamaha RX-V3900 in the box and I didn't like the sound but that could be because YAPO messed things up.
  4. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

    AcuDefTechGuy
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    I've been preaching the "Pure Direct Absolutely No Audyssey" sermon for years. :D

    Some people like what they get from room correction EQ (Audyssey, ARC, etc), and some people don't. Some rooms may benefit, some rooms don't.

    Not everyone likes Audyssey, ARC, or any other RC.

    The important thing is to try it for yourself and use what sounds best to you.
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  5. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    There is no way to get subEQ to work without having Audyssey on. The other stuff you've listed can be turned off. If you run the auto setup you can still get the delay, crossover and level benefits because they will stay after audyssey is turned off. They should sound similar without their respective EQ's.
  6. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    I've gone back and forth between using Audyssey and turning it off. I've come to the conclusion that I prefer Pure Direct over anything else. Granted, I don't have TX32 so it isn't a direct comparison, but there is a pretty noticeable difference.
  7. JonnyFive23517 Audioholic

    JonnyFive23517
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    I run Audyssey XT, and I'll upgrade to XT32 in my next receiver.

    I do like the EQ job it does especially on the subwoofer. It is literally night/day different in the bass frequencies, so I am happy to have it. For the L/R speakers I go back and forth between using Audyssey and bypassing it. Using it, I get a cleaner soundstage, without it, it feels like there may be a few frequencies that are just a bit too loud. I run the mic *only* at the prime LP.

    Huge drawback-you can't set curves for each speaker individually (without a pro kit). So for my center channel I might like to keep all the high end (Audyssey "flat") for vocal intelligibility, but on all the other speakers I prefer the high-end roll off that Audyssey incorporates (standard "Audyssey" setting). In the pro kit, you can set the level of high end roll off for each speaker.

    Dynamic Volume-I'd only ever use this one "low" because med/high have way too many artifacts. They need to change how they are compressing this, why not use a multi-band compressor if they already aren't? The only time I'd turn something like this on is when watching Das Boot, for example, and the explosions were scaring the guests.

    Dynamic EQ- I really like what this does for movie watching. I watch at quiet volumes, and this still allows the subwoofer to have a significant impact.

    I didn't agree with how it set my crossover frequency, so I had to adjust that manually. Also, depending on your version of Audyssey, I know it downsamples hi-def music to CD quality. This doesn't bug me, but it may for those who have a lot of hi-def tracks.

    The way I figure it, below 200hz the room becomes a major factor in your SQ so it makes sense to address it through acoustic treatments, placement options, and finally, filtering solutions.
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  8. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    When you upgrade the feature you're looking for is "subEQ" which is separate from XT32. They might be attaching it to all XT32 receivers nowadays, but in the past the general rule of thumb was that you could have XT32 without subEQ, but not sub EQ without xt32. It would probably be useful to just double check on whatever receiver you might be getting. SubEQ is the all star of the Audyssey lineup IMHO and it does an excellent job of handling the bass frequencies, especially with two subs.
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  9. JonnyFive23517 Audioholic

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    I thought subEQ was basically for calibrating dual subs. The unique feature being that it chirps them separately, and then together as one sub to measure their interaction. Granted you get the 32x filter resolution which is the most important part, but you get that with XT32 anyway. So subEQ only matters with dual subs. Or am I wrong?
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  10. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    Whoops, my bad you are correct about subEQ. It's 512X filter resolution though.
  11. GranteedEV Audioholic Ninja

    GranteedEV
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    Audyssey is great below 200hz, where the room is a predominant factor in what we hear.

    Above that frequency you really need good room acoustics and good speakers.
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  12. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    Here is a question. What benefit would SubEQ get me if I had some sort of PEQ like a MiniDSP? Can they work together? I've read some threads at another site using REW, a miniDSP and Audyssey all together and they got pretty fantastic results. I ask because the next receiver I look at will have subEQ, but I'm a pretty big Pure Direct fan so that would defeat the purpose (I would get PD 2.1 though).
  13. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

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    If you used both together, then you would just more filters to help smooth the response although you get 6 bands per channel in a miniDSP, plus another 6 bands that controls two of the four output channels each. So if you have two subs and one miniDSP each sub gets 12 bands. With proper placement that should get you about all you need, but you could always run subEQ after wards and see if it helps more.
  14. avengineer Banned

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  15. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

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    If you wanted to run PD 2.1 and use both subEQ and a miniDSP I would strongly recommend setting up the miniDSP first. That way the miniDSP would be doing it's best to even out your response all the time and then Audyssey would go above then. If you set up Audyssey first the miniDSP would be trying to correct the response already corrected by audyssey and would not be doing a good job in PD mode.

    As for how well they work together, I have no clue.
  16. AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Slumlord

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    Yeah, Pure Direct 2.1 would turn off subEQ and every single EQ. You would have to use Stereo mode or similar DSP modes.
  17. JonnyFive23517 Audioholic

    JonnyFive23517
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    Just one, the prime LP, where I sit 99% of the time. So I don't want a nice weighted average of many different seats, I want one seat to be as good as possible, let the others fall where they may.

    I maybe should run 8 measurements all at that 1 physical location though, just to try and even out discrepancies with mic measurements.
  18. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    That's not how you're supposed to measure with audyssey and audyssey is trying to optimize for the main LP. You're not supposed to move the microphone a lot, but you do need to move it so that the software can gain as accurate as possible "picture" of the room and decipher any room modes or other anomalies. Read the below link and you'll see that audyssey protocol has you doing the first measurement at the main LP and then however many you have left within a 2ft radius all around the main LP.

    How to MultEQ | Audyssey
  19. avengineer Banned

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    I understand your logic, but Audyssey doesn't work that way. A single-point setup will never sound right, no matter how many measurements you take in that position. In fact, a single measurement is often used as a confirmation that Audyssey is actually functioning because the difference between "in" and "bypass" will be fairly radical, though the EQ won't be meaningful.

    Audyssey, of any flavor, doesn't do a simple "weighted average". The entire concept uses Fuzzy Clustering as a significant improvement over averaging of any kind. When you take measurements and average them, all data points get figured into the average, even if they are anomalous and way out of line with others. Fuzzy Clustering determines what data points are unique to a position and, if radically different, ignores them, then looks for points that are more in agreement. Where a simple average decreases the total resolution of the result, Fuzzy Clustering tunes in on the common trends, or specifically what would be heard as a character of the system in all locations, effectively increasing the EQ resolution. Additionally, it does this independently for each speaker.

    If you want to favor a main seat, that's fine, but what you need to do is still take as many measurements as your system permits (usually 8 unless you are doing a Pro cal), and not in the same exact position...you have to move the mic. Use the main seat for the starting point, then use adjacent positions for at least 4 additional points, then back to the main seat for the last three, but don't put the mic in exactly the same position as the one you used to start. You want to create a measurement bubble around your head position, so scatter those points around, even if they are basically in the same seat. Don't forget the mic has to be at ear level, and it's best if it's not near a boundary, like a high leather seat back.

    The result, using this technique, is that you will end up with your main seat favored with the resulting EQ.
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
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  20. JonnyFive23517 Audioholic

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    I'm sorry to differ, but this is incorrect. Audyssey does *not* try to optimize listening for the main LP. It sets distance based on the first measurement, but the end results are intended to minimize the root-mean-square deviation of frequency response at all seats in question. So "on average" one's listening environment may be better, but the prime LP may suffer to bring up that average.

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