do i need a crossover?

W

wessyb

Junior Audioholic
Good day. i recently acquired a pair of svs 20-39 cs+ and samson 1000 amp. Believe me this is a massive improvement to my system.
the question i have tho. is- do i still need to add a x-over even tho. i have a denon avr3806? or does adding one still give a better output for bass? If so can u recommend a low cost option?




Psb image t55 fronts
infinity center
psb image c60 center (on the way)
energy c-r3 surrounds
svs pb10nsd, 2- 20-39cs+(with samson amp)
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
no you don't need a crossover because your denon will be outputting a crossovered signal through the LFE output
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Mike is correct. The AVR-3806 will handle crossover duties.
 
H

Hi-Fi ve

Junior Audioholic
Well I’m poor like you:D so here's want I brought recently it’s a loudspeaker management crossover system (Behringer DCX2496) its got lots of options you can use it between the sub bass output only to drive multiple subs and the crossover is very flexible and effective.
wessyb, now you know who to skip. ;)
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
wessyb, now you know who to skip. ;)
The DCX2496 is a great tool. However, it is not really useful for a person that would not know how to use it to it's full potential. If all a person is looking for is the crossover, the Denon's is perfectly capable.
 
majorloser

majorloser

Moderator
The DCX2496 is a great tool. However, it is not really useful for a person that would not know how to use it to it's full potential. If all a person is looking for is the crossover, the Denon's is perfectly capable.
Agreed, the Behringer would be overkill. The Denon has a very good crossover on the LFE.
 

bigbangtheory

Audioholic
staggering crossovers

Similar issue - I am about to buy a nice Velodyne sub and need some advice, regarding the crossover issue. I would think my receiver (Denon 3803) can handle crossover duties just fine.

But I am reading that the Velodyne manual says you can also STAGGER crossers - meaning set the receiver at 80, and ALSO set the sub's crossover at 120. Anyone have experience with this? Would it make any noticeable difference vs just letting the receiver do the crossover duty? Thanks in advance for the help!!!
 
mike c

mike c

Audioholic Warlord
But I am reading that the Velodyne manual says you can also STAGGER crossers - meaning set the receiver at 80, and ALSO set the sub's crossover at 120. Anyone have experience with this? Would it make any noticeable difference vs just letting the receiver do the crossover duty? Thanks in advance for the help!!!
what velodyne wants to happen is to make sure the subwoofer crossover does not interfere with the receiver crossover. hence you should set the sub crossover higher than the receiver crossover (max possible or bypass)
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Good question. Staggering crossovers can have very good effects, especially when a 1st or 2nd order slope is used. Crossovers are not brick wall filters. They roll off frequency response as follows: 6db/octave (1st order), 12db/octave (2nd order), 18db/oct. (3rd order), 24db/oct. (4th order), 36db/oct. (5th order), 48db/oct. (7th order)

80hz-160hz is once octave, just as 1000hz-2000hz is one octave.



What those things mean is this:

Say you have a full range pink noise signal at 100db. If our crossover point is 80hz with a 3rd order 18db/oct. low pass filter, the signal will be down to 82db at 160hz. Although this signal is rolled off signicicantly it is still audible if no other full range signals are present. One can test this by having all the speakers except for the sub woofer turned off and run a frequency sweep through the system.

Staggering crossovers will allow you to reduce the level of the signal after the crossover point, effectively steepening the crossover slope.

Say one has a receiver and it only utilizes a 12db/oct. low pass crossover. With an 80hz crossover point the signal is still at 88db at 160hz. At the -6db point of 120hz the signal is still at 94db. Let's say the subwoofer has a 12db/oct. as well. Staggering the sub's crossover at 100hz would allow the sub's response to now be down -19.2db at the 160hz point rather than -12db and down -8.4db or 91.6db at 120hz. Essentially it allows a 12db/oct. roll off from 80hz-100hz and then a 24db oct. roll off from 100 hz on up. It may allow for the system to blend together in a better manner.

Most receivers nowdays utilize a 18db/oct. slope and sometimes a 24db/oct. slope for the sub crossover. In this case, it may not be necessary to stagger crossovers. Depending upon the system and how it integrates with the room, a staggered slope can be advantageous.
 
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A

AVTechnologyGuy

Audiophyte
Good info annunaki! (Are you a loudspeaker designer?)

Staggering is a good idea, but is difficult for the novice to conceptualize and adjust accodingly.

Everyone, just remember that the resultant crossover frequency should be set to 80Hz. As stated in other posts, use active, instead of passive, crosssovers if posssible.
 
annunaki

annunaki

Moderator
Good info annunaki! (Are you a loudspeaker designer?)

Staggering is a good idea, but is difficult for the novice to conceptualize and adjust accodingly.

Everyone, just remember that the resultant crossover frequency should be set to 80Hz. As stated in other posts, use active, instead of passive, crosssovers if posssible.
I appreciate the complement but, no I am not. I would like to be though ;). I do design some DIY projects but have not the time nor the cash to try them all.
 
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