Discontinued Control App

[Bex]

Hi! We have a house that came with a whole house sound system. Everything is wired and works well when I plug in a device to any of the 3 AUX jacks. After doing some research, I found out that this system used to be controlled by an app, but the whole thing is discontinued. It's there anything I can do to get it to work with a different app or reciever or something?

It is Legrand that was controlled with the on-Q app. Thank you so much!

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi! We have a house that came with a whole house sound system. Everything is wired and works well when I plug in a device to any of the 3 AUX jacks. After doing some research, I found out that this system used to be controlled by an app, but the whole thing is discontinued. It's there anything I can do to get it to work with a different app or reciever or something?

It is Legrand that was controlled with the on-Q app. Thank you so much!

From what little information I can gather it was Chinese junk when new, and now definitely a pile of Chinese junk. I doubt they sold many, and what I could find was all complaints due to non responses. So the App was buggy in the extreme.

Worse there are no manuals available, so I have no idea how it is configured and what is where and how it is all wired up.

I would bet that the installers never put in conduit for the wiring, so you likely can not put in something else without tearing the house apart.

My advice is to leave it and forget it.

 

[highfigh]

Hi! We have a house that came with a whole house sound system. Everything is wired and works well when I plug in a device to any of the 3 AUX jacks. After doing some research, I found out that this system used to be controlled by an app, but the whole thing is discontinued. It's there anything I can do to get it to work with a different app or reciever or something?

It is Legrand that was controlled with the on-Q app. Thank you so much!

This app?

On-Q Digital Audio - Apps on Google Play

Wirelessly control your On-Q Digital Audio System (sold separately).

play.google.com

Two of the photos show that the LAN port isn't being used- did you connect that to your router? If not, don't expect this to work.

 

[TLS Guy]

This app?

On-Q Digital Audio - Apps on Google Play

Wirelessly control your On-Q Digital Audio System (sold separately).

play.google.com

Two of the photos show that the LAN port isn't being used- did you connect that to your router? If not, don't expect this to work.

His system is not and on-Q so I don't think that will work.

I have manage to figure out how the system works and is configured. A unit connects to your router by Ethernet cable, The output of that goes to the controller. Then there are cat5 cables going to each room with a speaker. That carries digital audio and a 24 volt DC supply for each room controller. That powers the control and also a 20 watt amp for each speaker.

So there are no speaker wires going from that central locations. So it is mono only, and I suspect really nasty out of the starting gate. So my advice is to not worry with this system.

 

[Trebdp83]

 

[highfigh]

His system is not and on-Q so I don't think that will work.

I have manage to figure out how the system works and is configured. A unit connects to your router by Ethernet cable, The output of that goes to the controller. Then there are cat5 cables going to each room with a speaker. That carries digital audio and a 24 volt DC supply for each room controller. That powers the control and also a 20 watt amp for each speaker.

So there are no speaker wires going from that central locations. So it is mono only, and I suspect really nasty out of the starting gate. So my advice is to not worry with this system.

He posted "It is Legrand that was controlled with the on-Q app".

I was referring to the LAN port, not an OnQ com port.

ABUS was stereo, but it used speaker wires and Cat5(e). Why would it have to be mono- the cable has eight pairs and with a ClassD amp, two pairs could be used for power, three can be used for separate audio and com can be multiplexed on whatever is available. The speaker wires would

That said, it's pretty old, so....

Legrand AU7001 - Manual (Page 5)

Read online or download PDF • Page 5 / 5 • Legrand AU7001 User Manual • Legrand Hardware

www.manualsdir.com

 

[TLS Guy]

He posted "It is Legrand that was controlled with the on-Q app".

I was referring to the LAN port, not an OnQ com port.

ABUS was stereo, but it used speaker wires and Cat5(e). Why would it have to be mono- the cable has eight pairs and with a ClassD amp, two pairs could be used for power, three can be used for separate audio and com can be multiplexed on whatever is available. The speaker wires would

That said, it's pretty old, so....

Legrand AU7001 - Manual (Page 5)

Read online or download PDF • Page 5 / 5 • Legrand AU7001 User Manual • Legrand Hardware

www.manualsdir.com

According to the specs of the wall controls that control and power the speakers, there is only one 20 watt amp in each control. Therefore I concluded it was mono. Since the power is provided by the cat 5 cable I don't think any wire in a cat5 cable would carry enough current to power two 20 watt amps at 24 volts.

 

[highfigh]

According to the specs of the wall controls that control and power the speakers, there is only one 20 watt amp in each control. Therefore I concluded it was mono. Since the power is provided by the cat 5 cable I don't think any wire in a cat5 cable would carry enough current to power two 20 watt amps at 24 volts.

In all honesty, distributed audio should only be mono- if someone wants stereo/more channels, the place should be wired for that.

Ever see the power specs for Samsung TVs that are powered by their One Connect Box Cable? That cable not only sends AV, but also powers the TV. Cat5e for POE is rated at 90-100W @50V, so whatever this provides will be less but with ClassD amplification, the output can be whatever they want to call it as long as it doesn't burn the house down. That assumes two pairs for power.

 

[TLS Guy]

In all honesty, distributed audio should only be mono- if someone wants stereo/more channels, the place should be wired for that.

Ever see the power specs for Samsung TVs that are powered by their One Connect Box Cable? That cable not only sends AV, but also powers the TV. Cat5e for POE is rated at 90-100W @50V, so whatever this provides will be less but with ClassD amplification, the output can be whatever they want to call it as long as it doesn't burn the house down. That assumes two pairs for power.

There is only one Cat5 to each wall controller and only one wire carries power. I think this was a poorly thought out system. No wonder they abandoned it.

 

[highfigh]

There is only one Cat5 to each wall controller and only one wire carries power. I think this was a poorly thought out system. No wonder they abandoned it.

How do you mean 'one wire'? One pair?

 

[TLS Guy]

How do you mean 'one wire'? One pair?

What I mean is one wire plus the ground.

 

[BMXTRIX]

People wonder why you should spend so much on Crestron stuff...

My first job with Crestron, over 20 years ago. Every single component in their system is still something I can program. It's something I can replace or upgrade. I can buy a brand new control processor (4 generations newer), and completely integrate it with every single component they had installed over 20 years ago. That is why stuff like Crestron tends to cost a fair bit more. They have very little product that loses it's functionality like this stuff does all the time. They sell it for 3 or 4 years, then they stop selling it, then they stop supporting it. Then you have to burn your house down if you want to swap it out and upgrade. It's insane and completely shameful.

 

[highfigh]

People wonder why you should spend so much on Crestron stuff...

My first job with Crestron, over 20 years ago. Every single component in their system is still something I can program. It's something I can replace or upgrade. I can buy a brand new control processor (4 generations newer), and completely integrate it with every single component they had installed over 20 years ago. That is why stuff like Crestron tends to cost a fair bit more. They have very little product that loses it's functionality like this stuff does all the time. They sell it for 3 or 4 years, then they stop selling it, then they stop supporting it. Then you have to burn your house down if you want to swap it out and upgrade. It's insane and completely shameful.

I don't like manufacturers leaving people hanging when they decide to turn off life support for their stuff that should have been designed better in the first place.

That said, it's usually possible to retro-wire in most houses and commercial spaces but obviously, not all. This is a good case for installing some kind of conduit during the rough-in stage.

I wouldn't have wanted to be involved in the "Why did I pay twelve grand for this touchscreen controller when Crestron just came out with an iPod app that does the same thing?" conversations.

One of the programmers where I worked said he wanted to create an icon on the screen for turning the lights on and off with a .wav file that sounds like The Clapper.

 

[TLS Guy]

I don't like manufacturers leaving people hanging when they decide to turn off life support for their stuff that should have been designed better in the first place.

That said, it's usually possible to retro-wire in most houses and commercial spaces but obviously, not all. This is a good case for installing some kind of conduit during the rough-in stage.

I wouldn't have wanted to be involved in the "Why did I pay twelve grand for this touchscreen controller when Crestron just came out with an iPod app that does the same thing?" conversations.

One of the programmers where I worked said he wanted to create an icon on the screen for turning the lights on and off with a .wav file that sounds like The Clapper.

Absolutely. Never put any type of AV, Internet or coax cable in a will that is not in conduit. Not ever. Installers break this rule again and again.

 

[highfigh]

Absolutely. Never put any type of AV, Internet or coax cable in a will that is not in conduit. Not ever. Installers break this rule again and again.

Some break it, some are 'self-taught, some work for companies/customers who don't want to spend the money up front, only to complain like crazy when something needs to be replaced or installed after the fact. I knew one place that didn't charge for installation, just used full price for the equipment. One of the people who worked there decided that the speaker wire should be a heavier gauge and the owner said "Thanks- you just cost me $100 on every job". I worked on a house that had been wired by the same store and for dropping the level of some speakers, they had soldered wire wound resistors in series and stapled the wire to a nearby joist which, not surprisingly, charred the wood. Not a voltage divider or level control, a series resistor.

I helped do some installations for the first store where I worked with audio and on a big job for a Harley Davidson dealership, he spec'd racks for the equipment that were intended for residential use, even though the owner of the dealership said he was concerned about security, instead of using lockable equipment racks. After a few weeks of telling the store owner how much cabling we had used, he told us that we were way over the quoted price for that and I asked "You forgot about the vertical distances, didn't you?". He wasn't happy because he had completely ignored that when he bid the job which another place had priced at more than three times this quote. If conduit was used, it was because it was outdoors and I insisted on it but most of the cabling was exposed. It worked, in spite of his efforts to make it a failure.

These two owners had a bad habit of pricing work as if they were spending the money, rather than doing things the right way. It costs more up front, but saves more later.

If cables are installed by drilling into a basement or attic and it's accessible later, it's not a big deal but through walls and in ceilings, it is. In large homes and buildings, it just makes subsequent work easier. I worked for a few places that used direct burial cable, but not in conduit. If anyone ever needs to replace the cabling I installed going to a pool house, they're going to thank me for not making their life miserable because it goes out from the basement, around the deck and under the steps from the yard to the deck and around the house before coming out of the ground. IIRC, the total length was roughly 160' from the structured wiring enclosure. This was clay soil and hacking through that stuff with a pick axe on a very humid day was no picnic. Aside from the existing cabling that was OK to reuse or what's in some ceilings, I don't think there's any cabling that can't be replaced in that house, which totals ~8500 ft² including the pool house that had speaker wires before I got there. I can even replace the cabling to the 3rd floor.

 

[TLS Guy]

Some break it, some work for companies/customers who don't want to spend the money up front, only to complain like crazy when something needs to be replaced or installed after the fact. I knew one place that didn't charge for installation, just used full price for the equipment. One of the people who worked there decided that the speaker wire should be a heavier gauge and the owner said "Thanks- you just cost me $100 on every job". I worked on a house that had been wired by the same store and for dropping the level of some speakers, they had soldered wire wound resistors in series and stapled the wire to a nearby joist which, not surprisingly, charred the wood. Not a voltage divider or level control, a series resistor.

I helped do some installations for the first store where I worked with audio and on a big job for a Harley Davidson dealership, he spec'd racks for the equipment that were intended for residential use, even though the owner of the dealership said he was concerned about security, instead of using lockable equipment racks. After a few weeks of telling the store owner how much cabling we had used, he told us that we were way over the quoted price for that and I asked "You forgot about the vertical distances, didn't you?". He wasn't happy because he had completely ignored that when he bid the job which another place had priced at more than three times this quote. If conduit was used, it was because it was outdoors and I insisted on it but most of the cabling was exposed. It worked, in spite of his efforts to make it a failure.

If cables are installed by drilling into a basement or attic and it's accessible later, it's not a big deal but through walls and in ceilings, it is. In large homes and buildings, it just makes subsequent work easier. I worked for a few places that used direct burial cable, but not in conduit. If anyone ever needs to replace the cabling I installed going to a pool house, they're going to thank me for not making their life miserable because it goes out from the basement, around the deck and under the steps from the yard to the deck and around the house before coming out of the ground. IIRC, the total length was roughly 160' from the structured wiring enclosure. This was clay soil and hacking through that stuff with a pick axe on a very humid day was no picnic.

I think it should be code to put all these cables in conduit. All these cables are in this house. I made certain of that!

In our lake home in the remodel I did the same. When he came to change from cat 5 to cat 6 the job was way under the hour.

 

[highfigh]

I think it should be code to put all these cables in conduit. All these cables are in this house. I made certain of that!

In our lake home in the remodel I did the same. When he came to change from cat 5 to cat 6 the job was way under the hour.

It makes sense but since it's really not a safety issue, I doubt the NEC or UL will require it.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I don't like manufacturers leaving people hanging when they decide to turn off life support for their stuff that should have been designed better in the first place.

That said, it's usually possible to retro-wire in most houses and commercial spaces but obviously, not all. This is a good case for installing some kind of conduit during the rough-in stage.

I wouldn't have wanted to be involved in the "Why did I pay twelve grand for this touchscreen controller when Crestron just came out with an iPod app that does the same thing?" conversations.

One of the programmers where I worked said he wanted to create an icon on the screen for turning the lights on and off with a .wav file that sounds like The Clapper.

I'm kind of in the 'build it bulletproof' camp. I use Crestron for this because there is a glut of product on the used market for a very good price that was thousands when new. Great stuff. I can then give someone a phone interface, or a simple handheld remote that works anywhere in their home, and drives the entire system. I have some of those old $4,000+ touchpanels in my storage area, and I'm thinking I may soon just throw them away. They don't measure up to my iPad control. I actually tend to throw them into areas where I want something that can just sit still and always be available. 10 years in my home, the one up in the playroom, that was over 5 years old when I got it (for free I think) is still working perfectly. How awesome is that? Also, the code I wrote for it? Still fully supported. I can edit it, change it up, all the rest. I've even used 20+ year old touchpanels in shop areas and such where nobody cares if they get damaged and I could replace it for under 50 bucks.

Yeah, homes can be retro wired, but if speaker wiring was done to industry standards (14/4 or similar) from a head end location, and cat-5/6 cabling to keypad locations, then everything can be upgraded. ABUS was one of those proprietary ideas that made the wiring easier, but didn't actually make things upgradable. You were locked in with volume controls that doubled as amplifiers. Less wiring expense, which is good, but far less flexibility, which is horrendous. Plus, the stupid reality of software support disappearing to really screw over the customer. *sigh*

I would probably dump the ABUS, and run some amplification from the head end through the cat-5 to the ceiling speakers. Not the most robust wiring, but then a iOS app to run the show with sources and a control system in the basement. It would work pretty well, but people would lose the 'local' inputs I expect. Instead, it would move to a Wiim or Sonos source (or several) to get multiple sources of audio everywhere in the home.

 

[highfigh]

I'm kind of in the 'build it bulletproof' camp. I use Crestron for this because there is a glut of product on the used market for a very good price that was thousands when new. Great stuff. I can then give someone a phone interface, or a simple handheld remote that works anywhere in their home, and drives the entire system. I have some of those old $4,000+ touchpanels in my storage area, and I'm thinking I may soon just throw them away. They don't measure up to my iPad control. I actually tend to throw them into areas where I want something that can just sit still and always be available. 10 years in my home, the one up in the playroom, that was over 5 years old when I got it (for free I think) is still working perfectly. How awesome is that? Also, the code I wrote for it? Still fully supported. I can edit it, change it up, all the rest. I've even used 20+ year old touchpanels in shop areas and such where nobody cares if they get damaged and I could replace it for under 50 bucks.

Yeah, homes can be retro wired, but if speaker wiring was done to industry standards (14/4 or similar) from a head end location, and cat-5/6 cabling to keypad locations, then everything can be upgraded. ABUS was one of those proprietary ideas that made the wiring easier, but didn't actually make things upgradable. You were locked in with volume controls that doubled as amplifiers. Less wiring expense, which is good, but far less flexibility, which is horrendous. Plus, the stupid reality of software support disappearing to really screw over the customer. *sigh*

I would probably dump the ABUS, and run some amplification from the head end through the cat-5 to the ceiling speakers. Not the most robust wiring, but then a iOS app to run the show with sources and a control system in the basement. It would work pretty well, but people would lose the 'local' inputs I expect. Instead, it would move to a Wiim or Sonos source (or several) to get multiple sources of audio everywhere in the home.

It's great to design bulletproof systems until the client sees the quote.......

I went to a Yamaha MusicCast dealer training and when I looked at the bottom of their small amplified speaker, I saw that it only uses 100W, so I asked the rep why they don't use a brick-type power supply like the ones used for HEOS speakers. Having never installed this stuff, he wouldn't understand why I would want this, so I explained- it would allow replacing on-wall or in-wall speakers without needing an electrician to install an outlet, using the old speaker wires for power as long as they're larger than 16ga. Screw the mount to the wall, connect the barrel power plug onto the speaker wire and make a good connection at the head end and viola! As long as WiFi is usable at the speaker location, it's done, other than the setup to connect the speakers to a MusicCast-enabled AVR.

I would think you could put the Crestron panels on ebay or other site, to sell them- people are always looking for weird, old stuff.