Dilemma Yamaha Rx A850 or higher model

I

ISO

Audiophyte
Good Morning friends. This is my first post.

Im currently in Bahrain. I want to purchase AVR. I have shot listed RX A850.

This question is regarding two channel stereo mainly for listening music on AVR

Yamaha advantage series RX A-850 AVR uses Burr-Brown DAC and Higher end Model uses ESS DAC

How is the quality of mid tone compared to Burr Brown vs ESS?

I have taken few demo here in Bahrain. I found mid tone sound to be little harsh on ESS than Burr Brown. Any pointers pl.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Doubt there is enough of difference to notice. Did you listen to the same speakers when you were comparing? It's hard to audibly determine the differences without all things being equal. Our auditory memory is unbelievably short which makes subtle differences hard to pick up on.



Good Morning friends. This is my first post.

Im currently in Bahrain. I want to purchase AVR. I have shot listed RX A850.

This question is regarding two channel stereo mainly for listening music on AVR

Yamaha advantage series RX A-850 AVR uses Burr-Brown DAC and Higher end Model uses ESS DAC

How is the quality of mid tone compared to Burr Brown vs ESS?

I have taken few demo here in Bahrain. I found mid tone sound to be little harsh on ESS than Burr Brown. Any pointers pl.
 
I

ISO

Audiophyte
Doubt there is enough of difference to notice. Did you listen to the same speakers when you were comparing? It's hard to audibly determine the differences without all things being equal. Our auditory memory is unbelievably short which makes subtle differences hard to pick up on.
Dear everettT

Thank you for the prompt reply.

Yes you are right. I could not take demo of two AVRs i.e. Yamaha RX A-850 and RX A-1050 on the same speaker system. It was not possible. 1050 was wired to switchable speakers units and 850 was wired separately. For 1050 I had to request thrice for change of speakers since sound was not satisfactory. All speakers was of Yamaha make. I played same songs (320 KBPS) on both AVRs from my USB thumb drive. For both the systems 'Straight' and 'Pure Direct' modes were selected. Definitely vocals on the 1050 were not smooth like 850. I did some research on the net. Bellow is the quote. I have exactly same observation.

Quote:
Spec Sheets - Listening experience - natural sound

First: I am not natively English speaking so please forgive any (minor) mistakes!
It is very interesting to read all of the stuff about the (relatively) new ESS Sabre DACs.
The numbers and spec sheets are impressive.
For me, one thing only matters, always: HOW DOES IT SOUND?
I did have the opportunity to compare an "older" Yamaha RX-A820 AV receiver to a new Yamaha RX-A1040 AV receiver. Both are high quality receivers.
The 820 uses Burr Brown. The 1040 uses ESS Sabre DACs.
Now, to better understand this, I am a professional musician, I am classically trained (highschool), but currently active in both pop and jazz music.
My RX-A820 with Burr Brown sounds far better than the newer 1040, which uses ESS. Voices sound more natural with the 820 / Burr Brown DACs. Mid- and low ranges are very transparent / natural sounding. ESS is good at extreme highs and extreme lows as well as channel separation and S/N ratio. They are brilliant to that extend.
But frankly, my ears are not interested in extreme highs, extreme lows or stellar high S/N ratio. My ears are interested in what comes closest to reality...
To me it's clear: Burr Brown easily wins this contest! They definitely sound more natural. So to me ESS Sabre is a bit of a hype, created by technicians, for technicians. Burr Brown is for musicians...
Sadly enough Yamaha chose ESS Sabre for it's latest Aventage receivers. I hope they will revert to Burr Brown again in the near future..!

Update September 3rd: I fumbled around a bit with the settings of the new RX-A1040, did a new measurement with the mic. I now have ALL settings to neutral (default) and the EQ of the Setup to "Natural". It actually sounds quite nice now and I am gaining a bit of affinity for the newer ESS Sabre chips. But still not fully satisfied. Still lacking a bit of "purity" in the mid ranges that I liked so much from the Burr Browns in my older RX-A820. But otherwise the sound is crystal clear. Does anybody have any suggestions here?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Unless your using your computer as a primary source and hardwired (even then probably not necessary) , I doubt you will hear a difference.
 
I

ISO

Audiophyte
Unless your using your computer as a primary source and hardwired (even then probably not necessary) , I doubt you will hear a difference.
But I could clearly hear the difference. That was only in the mid tone i.e. female singers voice. Female voice is close to upper mid tones almost near to treble.

For the male voice difference was more clear.

If I purchase RXA-1050, will it be a blunder?
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
Why would you think it was the dac when you listened to two different speakers. That's the more likely and realistic difference.
 
I

ISO

Audiophyte
Why would you think it was the dac when you listened to two different speakers. That's the more likely and realistic difference.
You are right I should not judge by DAC.

DAC or system design, what is inside I'm not interested. What is outcome (as mentioned in the quote) is my interest.

But I did some deep research on ESS DACs not only in the AVRs but also in the external DACs. Many people have reported ESS sound signature as bright.
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
But I could clearly hear the difference. That was only in the mid tone i.e. female singers voice. Female voice is close to upper mid tones almost near to treble.

For the male voice difference was more clear.

If I purchase RXA-1050, will it be a blunder?
What you heard was the difference in speakers. Speakers are 95% of the sound you hear and after that comes the source material and lastly the electronics. If you had identical system and only DAC changed you most likely can't hear any difference at all.
 
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