Differences between 12 AWG speaker cables

[Soujirou]

<font color='#000000'>I had a few questions concerning the difference between 12 AWG speaker wires out on the market.

I've always been one to recommend 12 AWG speaker wire, ~100% oxygen-free with low capacitance to get the most bang for your buck w/out sacrificing quality.  I have some questions now, however.  First of all, is a standard 12 AWG speaker wire more than enough for most high-end HT applications or will/can their be a noticeable benefit with 10 AWG wire?  With many of the surround channels available now having full range drivers as well as receiving equal power as the front sound stage, I would assume that 10 AWG would be better, although I'm not sure if it'd be noticeable let alone cost effective.  How do you guys feel about this?

I've read, and really enjoyed, the Speaker Cable Face Off and have had personal experience with Cobalt Cables myself (and am very pleased with the quality).  Incidentally, I saved money a long time ago while in Jr. High by purchasing parts and terminating my own speaker wire with banana plugs and made my own interconnects to save money.  Parts for my 1 meter interconnects alone cost roughly the same amount as one of the higher-end Monster Cable interconnects, but the end result was of far better not to mention more rewarding as well.  ^^;

In any event, for my friend I'm talking Price vs. Performance.  I'm trying to suggest to my friend the best route he can go to hook up his speakers without spending a lot.  The speaker wire I'm talking about here have the standard clear PVC jackets, nothing special, no hype/snake oil, just quality at a great price.  When using these same core manufacturing principles, would there be a reason that one brand would be better than another?  Sound King vs. Radio Shack vs. Brand X... 12 AWG, ~100% oxygen-free, etc. for example.

I've found this 250' spool of 10 AWG speaker wire on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&amp;item=3091621582

Another 300' spool of 12 AWG speaker wire from the same seller:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....1621599

My friend could easily use up to 200' to hook up his speakers just to get that out of the way.  

 

Should I be cautious in recommending either of these products to my friend?  I've checked out the seller and he/she has impeccable feedback and it's not as though I'm looking at some hyped product.  I just want to be more informed personally and would like to give the best suggestion I can to my friend.  Any help would be most appreciated.

-Remy/Soujirou</font>

 

[Shinerman]

<font color='#000000'>I would not think there would any audible difference at all. &nbsp;12 ga. should be fine. &nbsp; Hell, 14 ga. would be fine. &nbsp; Just look for quality, I used 12 ga Carol brand from Home Depot because it has a thicker than normal jacket. &nbsp;It's really thick. &nbsp;

One thing to consider, 10 ga. is getting pretty thick and if he needs to turn some tight corners or needs a lot of flexibility, it may be too thick. &nbsp;Also, make sure if he uses banana plugs, spades, etc., that they accept 10 ga wire. &nbsp;Some don't. &nbsp;

In the end, 12 ga. will be more than enough.

Shinerman</font>

 

[nm2285]

<font color='#000000'>Check out accessories4less.com. &nbsp;They have a sale on AR Master Series 10 guage right now.</font>

 

[Soujirou]

<font color='#000000'>Thank you for your input so far.

Concerning connections, I'll help him terminate his speaker wire with banana plugs that can accept up to 8 AWG wire.  I've always liked spade connectors for the superb contact surface area, but most binding posts I've ever come across simply do not accomodate them well if at all.  In the end, however, I love banana plugs and use them for all of my applications as the contact and stability are great.

About the speaker wire I listed in the two above links in my initial post, would there be any reason why this brand would be any different from Sound King or say Radio Shack?  Perhaps the way the wire is wound/coiled?  I don't think I need to worry, but would like to hear other's opinions on the matter before I give my friend any concrete advice.

-Remy/Soujirou</font>

 

[nickstr]

the physics for wire transmission of an electrical signal have mainly to do with the surface area of the wire and the material from which it is made. the signal travels on the outside of the wire so it is possible for a fine stranded wire to have more surface area than a solid core wire of a bigger diameter. I also think that the chance of air getting into a pure copper wire is negligible and the chance of it oxidizing the wire to the point that it degrades the sound quaility is also remote, but i am a partypooper i know. still keep the laws of physics in mind when deciding how much cash to spend on someones super wire.

 

[Unreg, Lazz]

Jmho

I Have been into high powered audio sense way before Home theater and a like. My Brother is a musician and I handled most of all the roady work , setting up all the audio equipment and so forth. It's be may experience that cable size only becomes a big issue when your using long runs. All though I would never use 16AWG on little systems like Boom Boxes were the speakers are right next to the stereo no ones ever going to here a difference. Now when you get up to a 500W system your going to need bigger wire just for heat distribution alone but if your only running lines up to 20 feet I would say that MOST would not here a difference between 14 and 12AWG. Myself though and with quality speakers I wouldn't use anything less then 12AWG as I can tell the difference at higher volumes in the highs and lows. I have used 12* all the way up to a 100' length and still had great sound but truly would suggest using 10 past 50' if you don't want to lose any quality. Anything past 100' rather then trying to up in size again it's time to use another amp. And for a sub cut those distances in half with same cable size.

Some said something about not worrying to much about shielding. The more shielded wire you can afford the better. True you may not really have to worry about air getting in the less shielded wire but there are to many other signals these days in the avenge house the will distort or interfere. Plus all these wires have to start with in close proximity of each other and feed back is the biggest concern here. Just like the distance from the speakers to the Hi-Fi or any other electronic devices. Nothing will kill sound quality quicker then feedback so the more shielded wire you can afford the better. Plus after spending xxx$ on a home system the wires that connect everything is not the place to try to chinse on your money. I personally would not try using $16 wire to hook up a thousand dollar theater system.

As for your question about if it's the same material but differant manufactures what's the difference? Probably not to much from radio shack come paired to say what Circuit City will have but some manufactures are going to have a better quality control then others. I remember a lot of my speaker wires having the coper stands brake inside the casing but then again we where move it around constantly so for a home system that your going to set up and probably not move around for years at a time this probably wont be a big concern. Hope my input helps you and this is just what I have lured from My experience.

btw the link above that nm2285 gave for accessories4less.com. is a really good price! 100' for 49.99

 

[jneutron]

the physics for wire transmission of an electrical signal have mainly to do with the surface area of the wire and the material from which it is made. the signal travels on the outside of the wire so it is possible for a fine stranded wire to have more surface area than a solid core wire of a bigger diameter. I also think that the chance of air getting into a pure copper wire is negligible and the chance of it oxidizing the wire to the point that it degrades the sound quaility is also remote, but i am a partypooper i know. still keep the laws of physics in mind when deciding how much cash to spend on someones super wire.

You are describing very high frequency transmission, where skinning has "pushed" the current to the outer surfaces of the conductor.

The electron transport actually is within the wire, it's profile slew rate dependent. The signal, which is the actual information or power transfer, is speed prop in the media, based on incremental inductance and capacitance.

A stranded wire will oxidize with time, regardless of how good the insulation. As it does, interstrand resistance will increase, and so will hf inductance, as the skin depth increases.

Of course, we are talking about an incremental 15 nH per foot as the absolute increase from a microwave frequency down to DC. Given that standard wires run about 200 nH per foot, the difference is typically of no concern.

IF anyone can hear the difference the 15 nH per foot can make, then stranded wire will begin to degrade the sound with time..However, nobody on the planet has to date (to the best of my knowledge) demonstrated the ability to do so reliably...anecdotal evidence from some enthusiasts, while possibly valid, remain unsupported to this date by hard scientific evidence..

Cheers, John