Desperately Seeking Upgrade Advice - stereo preamplifier, speakers, mult channel power amp

[marsupial]

Hello,

I have about $5000, and would like to upgrade my system. My setup is primarily a 2-channel music system, but has some Home Theater functionality.

For 2 channel, I use my laptop as a source, going into a Mytek DSD 192 DAC, into an Emotiva XPA2 gen2 amplifier, and finally to KEF q900 loudspeakers.

For surround, I use a Marantz AV7701, going into the Mytek which acts as my preamp and has HT bypass capabilities. My center and surround speakers are Best Buy Polk crap, as is my subwoofer. As is the Denon receiver which is currently serving as a power amplifier for the center and surround speakers.

That being said, I have some money begging to be spent. I was thinking of buying a 2-channel preamplifier, and was looking at options such as the Emotiva xsp-1, and the parasound halo p7. HOWEVER, I have recently begun thinking that it might be a better option to start accumulating high quality components that can continue to serve future - and hopefully superior - iterations of my audio setup. Continuing to buy mid-range components seems self-defeating when considering the big picture, and as such I have begun researching such preamp possibilities as the Parasound Halo JC2 BP, and the McIntosh C48.

The question arises however, of whether it would be ENTIRELY ridiculous to introduce a 4500-5000$ preamplifier into a system whose heart is a pair of $1500 KEF q900 speakers. It will likely be six months to a year before I can consider another significant upgrade.

This being the case, would it be wiser to focus my upgrade elsewhere? It would not be out of the question to use the money to buy KEF q-series center and surround speakers, and to buy a 3 channel amplifier for them - such as perhaps the Emotiva XPA-3. This would give me a decent 5.1 channel setup consisting of all kef q series speakers, and all emotiva xpa series amplification. This would also necessitate the purchase of a stereo preamplifier with HT bypass, and a good number of XLR interconnects.

A third option would be to liquidate the KEF q900 loudspeakers, and spend all of the money on new pair of loudspeakers for my music setup.

I present my indecision to the audioholics community.

In summation:

Option 1 - Hi-Fi 2-channel Preamplifier - JC2 BP or C48. ~4700$

Option 2 - KEF Q600c Center, 2x Q300 Surround, Emotiva XPA2, Emotiva XSP -1 (or parasound p7). ~5000$

Option 3 - Sale of Kef q900's (10/10 and original owner) >> purchase of new Loudspeakers - ~$5000 plus the 900 or so I would get from the KEF sale.

Thank you for reading and pls help : )

 

[PENG]

In summation:

Option 1 - Hi-Fi 2-channel Preamplifier - JC2 BP or C48. ~4700$

Option 2 - KEF Q600c Center, 2x Q300 Surround, Emotiva XPA2, Emotiva XSP -1 (or parasound p7). ~5000$

Option 3 - Sale of Kef q900's (10/10 and original owner) >> purchase of new Loudspeakers - ~$5000 plus the 900 or so I would get from the KEF sale.

Thank you for reading and pls help : )

I do not understand why you think you need a preamp. You already have a DAC that can also act as preamp for 2 channel music listening. You also have the AV7701 that is a nice preamp/pro.

It seems to be a viable option is to get an Outlaw 7125 to work with the AV7701 for HT and get a pair of better speakers to work with the XPA-2 gen 2 and Mytek DAC/preamp for serious 2 channel music listening. Or you can simply use the AV7701 with the XPA-2 plus a 5 channel power amp for both HT and 2 channel and use the MyTek for a second system or figure something other use for it.

Adding a P7 will most likely = Placebo effect induced better sound quality.
Adding a pair of better speakers = Real improved sound quality over the KEF Q series.
Adding a good sub also = Real improved sound quality over you "Bestbuy Polk".

 

[marsupial]

Peng thanks for the reply. This is good advice, however I feel as if a preamp might be helpful, for the following reason. While the Mytek serves admirably in its preamp functionality, and includes a bypass mode for synergistic use with the Marantz, it does not offer any balanced XLR inputs. If I kept everything the same, and simply got additional surround speakers, a sub, and another amplifier, I would have balanced connections throughout while listening to 2 channel, however for surround purposes I would necessarily have to run RCA from the Marantz to the Mytek, at which point the signal would be output in XLR to the power amp. In other words, my Center and Surround speakers would be connecting purely via RCA, and my front two channels would be connected via RCA converted into XLR.

Perhaps you can tell me if I am blowing the "xlr connections throughout the entire system" premise out of proportion? In other words, would having balanced interconnects throughout the system warrant the purchase of a ~1000$ stereo preamplifier?

Thanks again!

 

[PENG]

Peng thanks for the reply. This is good advice, however I feel as if a preamp might be helpful, for the following reason. While the Mytek serves admirably in its preamp functionality, and includes a bypass mode for synergistic use with the Marantz, it does not offer any balanced XLR inputs. If I kept everything the same, and simply got additional surround speakers, a sub, and another amplifier, I would have balanced connections throughout while listening to 2 channel, however for surround purposes I would necessarily have to run RCA from the Marantz to the Mytek, at which point the signal would be output in XLR to the power amp. In other words, my Center and Surround speakers would be connecting purely via RCA, and my front two channels would be connected via RCA converted into XLR.

Perhaps you can tell me if I am blowing the "xlr connections throughout the entire system" premise out of proportion? In other words, would having balanced interconnects throughout the system warrant the purchase of a ~1000$ stereo preamplifier?

Thanks again!

If your interconnect cables are shorter than several meters, no there won't be audible benefits using XLR. In one of my system I have a long run from the Oppo 105 to the two channel preamp so I use XLR. Other than that I use RCAs and the XLR are just sitting there to collect dust. XLRs do give some audible sense of connection security as it clicks when locked in.

There are some perceive sound quality advantage if the device offers truly end to end fully differential topology, but even then any perceived difference may or may not be real.

You have some nice components but the Q series speakers are IMO the limiting factor. I strongly suggest you redirect that $1,500 (P7) to the speaker upgrade fund. The P7 is nice, just does not seem like a priority when you have a $5,000 budget and the fact that you already own two highly capable preamp/processor.

 

[marsupial]

Would it be too much to ask for some speaker recommendations in this price range? : p

I'm starting to do some preliminary research, but speakers tend to be a lot more polarizing in regards to listener opinion than something like preamps. To be honest researching a new pair of speakers seems overwhelming!

 

[agarwalro]

Using the logic that electronics should be a fraction of the overall system budget, your speakers leave a lot to be desired. Further, I think you are over complicating things by keeping separate speakers for music and HT. Option 3 seems like your best bet. Flog the Kef and get a 5.1 or 5.2 setup that serves all needs.

$6000 will get you an awesome 5.2 setup.

PS. Also see this, DACs: Do You Need an External Digital to Analog Converter for your Hifi System? | Audioholics

 

[PENG]

If you are okay with KEF, try the R series, or get a pair of the reference series 201/2 for L/R.

 

[marsupial]

Using the logic that electronics should be a fraction of the overall system budget, your speakers leave a lot to be desired. Further, I think you are over complicating things by keeping separate speakers for music and HT. Option 3 seems like your best bet. Flog the Kef and get a 5.1 or 5.2 setup that serves all needs.

$6000 will get you an awesome 5.2 setup.

PS. Also see this, DACs: Do You Need an External Digital to Analog Converter for your Hifi System? | Audioholics

Mr. Agarwalro, in fact I do not use separate sets of speakers for music and HT. Sorry for the confusion. What I do, is have the Marantz output the L and R channels to the input of my Mytek dac, which I have configured to bypass mode. Regardless of what upgrade path I ultimately choose, this will likely remain the same - the L and R channel speakers being used for both 5.1 and stereo applications.

As far as selecting the path of completing my 5.1 (or 5.2) setup, do you really think the KEF q900's should be liquidated? Building a complete set of KEF Q-series 5.1 speakers is not cheap - $3800 in total ($2000 if we consider the front L and R which I already own). With the necessity of purchasing a new multi channel power amplifier to make such a setup possible, bringing the cost to ~$3000 at least, I'm not sure if the liquidation of the KEF's will provide for a big enough "jump." Further advice is of course welcome!

 

[marsupial]

If you are okay with KEF, try the R series, or get a pair of the reference series 201/2 for L/R.

Peng - KEF R900's would represent about the upper limit of my spending capability. They seem to have good reviews, and there is an authorized KEF dealer nearby where I can demo them - the same, in fact, at which I purchased my Q900's.

I do have one question, which unfortunately might identify me as the hi-fi noob that I am. Do Hi-Fi shops - such as the one I have just mentioned - typically offer some kind of 'trade-in' service for components that were purchased from them? For instance, would it be considered standard practice for my dealer to take back the Q900's which I bought around a year ago, and factor that into the price of the R900's? Or, for the purpose of liquidating the Q900's, am I limited to classified ads and services such as audiogon or ebay?

Thanks again!

 

[crossedover]

Audiogon is a good option, draw back is packing. Speaking of audiogon there is a pair of Salk soundscape 8s for 6300 that look sweet and perform extremely well.. 9k speaker for 6k is a nice deal

 

[PENG]

Peng - KEF R900's would represent about the upper limit of my spending capability. They seem to have good reviews, and there is an authorized KEF dealer nearby where I can demo them - the same, in fact, at which I purchased my Q900's.

Even the R500 would be fine if used with a good sub.

I do have one question, which unfortunately might identify me as the hi-fi noob that I am. Do Hi-Fi shops - such as the one I have just mentioned - typically offer some kind of 'trade-in' service for components that were purchased from them? For instance, would it be considered standard practice for my dealer to take back the Q900's which I bought around a year ago, and factor that into the price of the R900's? Or, for the purpose of liquidating the Q900's, am I limited to classified ads and services such as audiogon or ebay?

Thanks again!

I wouldn's call it standard practice but most dealers do offer the trade-in option. If you are going with 5.1 or 5.2, you already have a XPA-2 so you only need to buy a XPA-3.

 

[agarwalro]

Mr. Agarwalro, in fact I do not use separate sets of speakers for music and HT. Sorry for the confusion. What I do, is have the Marantz output the L and R channels to the input of my Mytek dac, which I have configured to bypass mode. Regardless of what upgrade path I ultimately choose, this will likely remain the same - the L and R channel speakers being used for both 5.1 and stereo applications.

After reading this I reread your original post and for the life of me cannot remember what have me the impression you had two sets of speakers. Maybe I got thrown off since I spent so much time looking at the DAC specs. Nice piece.

As far as selecting the path of completing my 5.1 (or 5.2) setup, do you really think the KEF q900's should be liquidated? Building a complete set of KEF Q-series 5.1 speakers is not cheap - $3800 in total ($2000 if we consider the front L and R which I already own. With the necessity of purchasing a new multi channel power amplifier to make such a setup possible, bringing the cost to ~$3000 at least, I'm not sure if the liquidation of the KEF's will provide for a big enough "jump." Further advice is of course welcome!

If you're happy with the Q900 I see no reason to liquidate them and you might as well complete the set. You could always in-home demo the R towers against the Q towers to see if you're missing anything...

Would you still get subwoofers if you went with completing the Kef setup and XPA3?

 

[sharkman]

Never mind, what's the point.

 

[agarwalro]

Never mind, what's the point.

Thanks for your input Marvin.

 

[sharkman]

Well, this place is kind of like an old boys club. You all have the same opinions about electronics, amps, cables, hearing, rooms. You all sing from the same song book, and that's fine, you can come here and see your thoughts repeated again and again by the other boys, and everyone pats each other on the back about their fine thinking.

So like I said, there is no point in offering up anything else. But my name is not Marvin, I don't get that reference at all. Is that some kind of insult?

 

[marsupial]

sharkman I'm not sure what you originally said as you seem to have deleted your post. I am interested in all opinions, even if they deviate from the norm!

agarwalo - if i was going to complete the 5.1 / 5.2 setup, I would indeed buy a sub or even two.

At the moment however I am leaning towards Peng's advice. I had to seriously consider which I value more - listening to music in 2 channels, or being able to enjoy immersive surround sound capabilities. I must admit that I don't watch as many movies or TV shows as I used to, and my 5.1 SACD collection just isn't significant enough to warrant exploring that option at this time. I've contacted the stereo shop where I purchased my Q900's. I bought them for around $1500 10 months ago. The R900's list for $5000. They said they'd take the q900's back, and give me the r900's for 3700$. I'm thinking this is a good deal (1300 credit for something I paid 1500 for), and will likely be doing this shortly : )

I'm thinking I'll get a bigger improvement from this step-up in speakers, than from adding a $5000 parasound JC2 preamp : P

 

[deathwantsme]

Have you done ANY acoustic treatment or your listening room? If not, you REALLY should put the rest of your budget here. Equipment can only do so much in a bad room.

 

[agarwalro]

Well, this place is kind of like an old boys club. You all have the same opinions about electronics, amps, cables, hearing, rooms. You all sing from the same song book, and that's fine, you can come here and see your thoughts repeated again and again by the other boys, and everyone pats each other on the back about their fine thinking.

So like I said, there is no point in offering up anything else. But my name is not Marvin, I don't get that reference at all. Is that some kind of insult?

You are confusing advise grounded on physics and facts, therefore consistent across people and posts, for groupthink. In fact, here folks are bantering about what is a good $10K system, Steve is saying the PSA XS15se is rivaling the Funk Audio 18.0 in output and the PSA owner, Tom is countering him (how's that for not patting on the back) and the DIY section has tons of folk doing their own thing. Heck if someone asks an open ended question, I'm pretty sure the OP checks out long before the discussion peters out.

If your thought is novel or different why not share it, rather than a snarkey 5 word post.

Marvin is the prototype robot in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, with GPP (Genuine People Personality) and he was severely depressed and bored all the time and usually had one line snarkey comments about the situation. Example,
Arthur: "Marvin, any ideas?"
Marvin: "I have a million ideas. They all point to certain death."

"Simple. I got very bored and depressed, so I went and plugged myself in to its external computer feed. I talked to the computer at great length and explained my view of the Universe to it," said Marvin. "And what happened?" pressed Ford. "It committed suicide," said Marvin and stalked off back to the Heart of Gold.

 

[marsupial]

Have you done ANY acoustic treatment or your listening room? If not, you REALLY should put the rest of your budget here. Equipment can only do so much in a bad room.

deathwantsme - in fact I have not done acoustic treatment of any kind. It is something that I understand - I think - however am unfamiliar with. My listening room is probably not ideal - it is a bedroom which serves also as my study / office. While listening, I typically sit on the bed : )

As far as acoustic treatment is concerned, I'm guessing that it is more than ordering treatment panels online and then just hanging them up at random? Does a proper installation require some sort of specialist to come out to analyze the room?

 

[agarwalro]

I've contacted the stereo shop where I purchased my Q900's. I bought them for around $1500 10 months ago. The R900's list for $5000. They said they'd take the q900's back, and give me the r900's for 3700$. I'm thinking this is a good deal (1300 credit for something I paid 1500 for), and will likely be doing this shortly : )

The R900 will be a big step up from the Q900, I would not even think for a second and jump on that. IMO, get rid of the rest of the cruddy speakers and enjoy the R900 in 2.0 before making any additions. If at all, maybe a high quality subwoofer to compliment the R900 and be 2.1. I recommend this sub to pair with the R900, SVS SB13-Ultra - 1000 Watt DSP Controlled, 13" Compact Sealed Subwoofer and that nicely rounds off the whole budget .