Denon AVR X4000 to X5200 upgrade (any better sound if I use pre-out only?)

[chinkw1]

Hi Audioholics,

My current speaker set-up is 5.1.
Player is Oppo 103D -hdmi-> Denon AVR X4000 pre-out 5 channels to Anthem MCA5 poweramp, pre-out .1 to M&K subwoofer.

An audio shop staff told me earlier that I can get better sound if I just upgrade to Denon AVR X5200.
I doubt so, because, currently I only use the pre-out from my AVR X4000, and even if I upgrade to X5200, I will still using only its pre-out and NOT its internal poweramp (because i will still be using my Anthem MCA5 poweramp). So, i feel that the sound will be about the same.

1. Pls share your opinion based on my set up, will it sound better from X4000 to X5200 if I only use their pre-outs?
2. X4000, X4200, X5200 etc... if we only use their pre-outs, the performance are the same, am I right? My understanding is: X5200 is better than X4200 is because of its higher power in powermap, but pre-outs are the same. Correct me pls?

 

[ratm]

I am no expert, and there are far more knowledgeable people on here than I. That said, I believe that A. your audio shop "staff" is clearly trying to profit from you selling a $1000 plus AVR that you absolutely DO NOT need (based on what your use is) and B. revert to A. I copied and pasted this from AVS, maybe this will help:

Denon AVR-X4100W ($1,399 msrp)

The new AVR-X4100W is basically an X4000 with Atmos, HDMI 2.0, Bluetooth, WiFi, and an extra HDMI input. There are some other minor changes (noted below) but these are the key differences most will care about. In order to support the variety of potential speaker options, the pre-out count has been upped to 13.2 outputs (from 11.2 on the X4000), although note that a maximum of 9 channels can be active at a time regardless of how many external amps you add. The additional pre-outs are for flexibility if you want to have the option of switching between various speaker configurations (e.g. 7.1 + Wides for DTS Neo:X, and 7.1 + In-ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos).


Denon AVR-X5200W ($1,999 msrp)

The X5200W is basically a Japan-made, souped up X4100W. It adds two more internal amps (9 total) rated at 140W/ch into 8 ohms (up from 125W/ch of the X4100), two more channels of processing capability (can run 11 simultaneously instead of 9 max), and fancier gold plated speaker connectors. Like the X4100W, the X5200W has a full set of 13.2 channel pre-outs, but since it can run 11 channels simultaneously, you can switch on the fly (example) from 11ch Neo:X and 7.1.4 Atmos, provided you have sufficient channels of external amplification to supplement the 9 internal amps. The X5200W also borrows from the higher end 4520CI (and its replacement X7200W) by incoporating a beefier "monolithic discrete amplifier" design with upgraded "Denon High Current Transistors" (DHCT), so it can be assumed it will be much more capabable of handling difficult speaker loads than the lower level models.

Hope this helps.

 

[Latent]

The 5200 has no way of doing 'better' sound. It has a little more power in its internal amps so it can go a little louder but you are not even using its amps.

It is a bit newer so has better hdmi switching but is too old to do hdcp 2.2 for full 4k support so really no better than the x4000. It's only advantage is dolby atmos support but it lacks dts:x still. The x4200 would be a more sensible upgrade as it is newer and has hdcp 2.2 for 4k support and atmos and dts:x. If neither of these features excite you then don't worry about it and I would wait a few years before upgrading.

 

[Latent]

Please also note that the 5200 came out in 2014 and was replaced with the 6200 which is identical except it got upgraded to the full 2015 specs. So the 4200 which is a 2015 has some advantages but is only 9 channels of processing while the 5200 does up to 11. They probably want to get rid of their old 5200 outdated stock which is why they are lieing to you.

 

[chinkw1]

Tq for informative response.
Since I m using Anthem MCA5 power amp, i feel sort of wasted using AVR X4000 (bcoz its internal power amp was wasted unused).

Might as well buy a AV preamp onli. Am i correct?

If I can buy X7200 without its internal power amp, it should be half its price. .
Unfortunately, i Google & find AV preamp are all so so expensive, how come?
By right it should be way cheaper bcoz it removed its poweramp. Cannot understand why?

 

[Latent]

Pre-pros cost about the same and sometimes even more for the same features and performance as a unit with internal amps. This is for two reasons. First is because of economies of scale. They will pay to design a full AVR and it will sell 100,000 units making the one off design costs irrelevant. Then they design an identical prepro which is cheaper in per unit bill of materials but they only sell 5,000 units because the consumer demand is so low meaning they have to charge a high price for them.

Then the second reason is that audiophiles are willing to pay this high price for a pre-pro as many belive that without the amp they are somehow better. There may be a few areas where pre-pros get better signal to noise ratio or similar but this is normally well below the audible level.

I think using higher end avr's is fine and you have a unit that is easier to reuse or resell later on when you upgrade. Also next upgrade you can try out atmos/dts:x height channels and use the inbuilt amps for these lower power channels and keep your 5 channel power amp for the main speakers. It's win win really

 

[PENG]

In pure direct the 5200 will not sound better. If you must upgrade, go for the 6200 or 7200.

 

[chinkw1]

Thank u all very much for information. Very kind of u guys

 

[herbu]

An audio shop staff told me earlier that I can get better sound if I just upgrade to Denon AVR X5200. I doubt so... i feel that the sound will be about the same.

You are correct.

 

[chinkw1]

From my Denon X4000 AVR, if I preout my front L&R to Adcom poweramp, which poweramp do you feel its better?
Adcom GFA 555, or Adcom GFA 5500 ?
Which is older model?

 

[PENG]

From my Denon X4000 AVR, if I preout my front L&R to Adcom poweramp, which poweramp do you feel its better?
Adcom GFA 555, or Adcom GFA 5500 ?
Which is older model?

The 555 is older. I used the 555 for my L/R for a long time, then I demoted it to the C channel and used a MCA20 to drive the L/R. There was virtually no difference in sound quality. If you are using everything well within their limits, anything at the AVR-X4000 level or higher should sound just as good with the help of either the Adcom or the Anthem. I happened to know because I have had two Denon AVRs, two Marantz prepros and 4 different power amps in that same HT system over the years. If you have the MCA5 now, replacing it with the Adcom will not make any difference in sound quality, but I assume you are thinking of using it to add 2 more channels.

You get more power (only make a difference if you actually need the extra) with the power amps, that's about it. Having said that, depending on your source, speakers, room and power requirements, it may be possible that replacing what you have now with the X7200W may get your better overall sound quality.

 

[lovinthehd]

SQ is more about which specific speakers and at what level you need them to play at when it comes to using an amp. Likely your avr alone is just fine. Maybe the addition of Dolby Surround upmixing may make a difference between the avrs, many people report that works quite well.