Denon AVR-3805 + Outlaw M-B 200 ?

[Snarl]

I currently have a Denon AVR-3805 driving 5 Speakers (see Sig), would there be any value in adding some Outlaw Model 200 M-Block Amplifiers ? and if so how many should I add ? I'm not sure if 2 or 3 (Mains & Center) would be better so I'm curious about those of you with a similar set-up and what if any improvements you may have noted.
I use my System currently 70% Music/30% HT and do on occasion like it loud. I can't really say I've ever heard then Denon strain however I'm still screwing around with the many settings. My room is a concrete poured basement, Tile on the Floor with Paneling on the walls, 20' Long x 12 Wide Approximately so accoustically it's not great. Makes it a little difficult sometimes to know how much the rooms accoustic's are affecting my sound.

 

[mitch57]

I have the 3805 which was driving Def Tech BP 7002 mains, CLR 2500 center and BP2X surrounds. I later purchased a Rotel RMB-1095 5 channel 200W per channel amp. The improvements were quite substantial. I then upgraded the amp to a Parasound Halo A51 250W 5 channel amp. The improvements were even more substantial. More dynamics, more and much tighter bass, and better seperation between channels.

I would expect the mono block amps to provide a great deal of sonic improvements.

 

[BJP]

I'll listen in on this one. I've been looking into the M Block 200 and I also have the 3805.

 

[legacy]

I have the same receiver and noticed a large difference with an external amp. However, your mains and center are 8ohms and pretty efficient at 91db and 90 respectively. I would think you would notice less of a benefit with an external amp than with some more difficult to drive speakers.

The amps could also be used to bi-wire/amp which may give slight improvement. The 3805 can already do this as detailed in Audioholics article but I'm not sure how well.

For HT I would get 3 but then you are primarly interested in music.

If you're just looking to improve your sound for about the same money you could:

1) sell the 3805 and get a Yamaha 4600 which has a cleaner pre-amp section and I believe more power.

2) get some room treatment for the side wall reflection points.

 

[Snarl]

I have the same receiver and noticed a large difference with an external amp. However, your mains and center are 8ohms and pretty efficient at 91db and 90 respectively. I would think you would notice less of a benefit with an external amp than with some more difficult to drive speakers.

The amps could also be used to bi-wire/amp which may give slight improvement. The 3805 can already do this as detailed in Audioholics article but I'm not sure how well.

For HT I would get 3 but then you are primarly interested in music.

If you're just looking to improve your sound for about the same money you could:

1) sell the 3805 and get a Yamaha 4600 which has a cleaner pre-amp section and I believe more power.

2) get some room treatment for the side wall reflection points.

Thanks Legacy, some good points. My speakers are fairly efficient and I've never heard the Denon break a sweat driving them however I'm still curious as to other peoples findings. I've tried the Bi-Amp and did'nt really notice an improvement so things now are Bi-Wired only (all 12 Gauge Wire) as I wanted to "free-up" the amplifier section. I assume you recommended 3 Amps for HT specifically to produce a uniform front image and that's a good point, I'm leaning towards 3 now for that reason. I don't believe I'd notice much, if any, improvement with the Yamaha as it's very, very close to my Denon overall. For room treatment I'm going to start with a large Area Carpet then add some wall hangings, I'll see what that does.

Thanks

 

[legacy]

Snarl,

I will be interested in your results with the Outlaw Model 200.

My thoughts about replacing your 3805 came from a reference from either Gene or Clint that the 3805 pre-amp stage was nosier than the yamaha 2500. I think this was in their hot separates thread which they recommened the 2500 and someone asked them would a Denon 3805 be an equally good combination. Anyhow, since I have the same receiver and am thinking of replacing it I threw that out there as an option.

The carpet and wall hangings seem a good start. They probably will not absorb much low frequency so you want to be careful not to overdue absorption in one range. There are a few very knowledgable posters in the room acoustics forumn about such issues.

 

[j_garcia]

I'd go for just two for the 11s. The 370 is easy to drive.

 

[Snarl]

I'd go for just two for the 11s. The 370 is easy to drive.

You have a valid point, the 11's are definietly the component that'll take more of what the Outlaws have to give. I was worried that with only 2 additional Amps for the 11's the Center Channel would become washed out, with a 200 Watt Amp to each main and a 120 Watt unit to the Center.

On a somewhat related note does anyone make Analog "VU" Meters to hook inline with Speakers to measure the Watts ?, or for that matter does anyone know how to Measure Watts at the Speaker by another method ? I'd be curious to monitor what the Denons doing at louder levels, may go someway to helping determine if I'll see any real Gains with the Outlaws.

I appreciate the Input guy's, I'm learning a little and your making me think of various options I may not have initially considered, Thanks !

 

[j_garcia]

Adding the two, or even just a 2ch from someone, will definitely mean the receiver will be working less, so it will handle dynamic peaks without issue, as well as the 11s will have all the current they should ever need. This is exactly what I experienced with my setup; my speakers are all 4 Ohm, so I was not keen on driving them all with my 8300, with a 6 Ohm minimum caution on the back of the receiver. By driving 3 with the receiver and 2 with the monoblocks, the receiver doesn't even get very warm at all.

 

[Mort Corey]

Since your room is basically an echo chamber (or bomb shelter) I'd try to tame the acoustics first before spending money on additional hardware. I'd wager that'd make the biggest difference in sound quality in your enviroment.

Mort

 

[indcrimdefense]

I have a 2805, which has slightly less power than a 3805, paired with klipsch rf-7 fronts & rf-5 rears, which are not difficult speakers to drive. Currently have a rotel 1080 200x2 channel amp, rotel rcd 1072 cd player & rotel rc-1070 stereo preamp, as well as a Cary Audio Cinema 6 pre & Cary Cinema 5 amp (5x200). My cd/dvd is a denon 2910. The 2805 never had a problem driving my speakers, but I knew the speakers were capable of so much more. If you are going to get an amp, go multichannel unless you only listen to music in strictly 2 channel & your happy with the 3805 performance for movies. With the denon I always listen to music in the 5 channel stereo mode or on pure direct with my speakers connected as A&B. The more power I feed to all the speakers, the better the system sounds for music, including at lower volumes. the rotel is a nice amp, and have tried using the rotel for the fronts & the 2805 for the rears, but it doesn't remotely compare to the cary amp driving all channels. With the cary (or the rotel only driving the fronts with rears off, to a lesser extent) the soundstage is broader, more enveloping, more detailed, and the clarity improves or the clarity at least is more noticeable. Add the Cary preprocessor and it's another level entirely, vocals significantly improve, distinction between low/mid/highs is more pronounced, the bass is exceptional, and the soundstage is immense. Denon makes a great product, and offers alot of bang for the buck. However, moving to a better processor & a multichannel amp, even just for music listening purposes, is well worth the additional investment. I have tried the above listed components in virtually even possible configuration, and the last choice I would make is buying a 2 or 3 channel amp and having any of the speakers driven by the receiver. One caveat, my rears are fairly large floorstanding speakers, at least in comparison to many "surround" speakers, so what suits my system may be somewhat overkill in a system with smaller surrounds. In that case I would recommend a large 2 or 3 channel amp and smaller amp for the surrounds. It's not that the Denon cannot power your surrounds, it's just that the more quality power a speaker has, the better it is going to sound. One of the best systems I heard recently was a set of bookshelf speakers powered by a 200 watt amp, and if I had not heard it I would not have believed it, as I would have told you it was ridiculous overkill. it was not, and now thinking about doing the same for my office system.