Denon avc-a1se(5800 US) or avc-a1sr(5803 US)

Discussion in 'Amps, Pre-Pros & Receivers' started by Yamahaha, Jan 7, 2010.

  1. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    Im planning on buying one of these and hooking it up with bluerayplayer with the 7.1 analog inputs(sound). And pic via hdmi.
    Do I loose anything soundwise by doing this instead of taking the sound via hdmi?
    How does these 2 amps do compared too todays amps?
    Anything special I should have in mind when testing them?
    What U think would be a fair price? Always hard with old amps.

    Any input regarding these 2 amps is welcome.

    Thanks.
  2. bandphan Banned

    bandphan
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    Im not sure either has HDMI. As for every thing else both are nice units, whats your budget?
  3. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    I know neither has hdmi, thats why Im planning too hook it up via the 7.1 analog inputs for sound and take the pic via hdmi direct too the projector.

    I have another question.
    How does the amplifierstage in these too differ from the one in avc-a1hd?
    I think its called 5303ci in the US, not sure.

    I got an offer for about 1000$Us for the avc-a1sr. So around 1000$US is my budget.
  4. bandphan Banned

    bandphan
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    Both are power houses. I wouldnt think that the amp stages are different at all.
  5. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    So in theori the sound should differ that much if the bluerayplayer has some good D/Aconverters?
  6. bandphan Banned

    bandphan
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    correct. Check out the Oppo bluray player.
  7. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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    One thing to remember is that all processing is by-passed when the multi-channel inputs are used. Bass management would need to be done in the BD/DVD player and there would be no matrixing of a 5.1 soundtrack when using Dolby True HD/DTS-MA into the rear surrounds if you have them. Only a 7.1 discrete soundtrack would offer sound to the rears.

    These are definitely excellent units, I own the 5800, as long as you’re running a 5.1 setup or could live with the standard DD/DTS soundtracks.

    What speakers are you running and how large is your room? Where do you live?
  8. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    Are You sure?
    Isnt that in the pure direct mode?
    I thought it was like this.
    In pure direct mode.
    Signal from BRay -- preamp denon--ampsection denon--- speakers

    In not pure direct mode
    signal from BRay-- A/D converters--- processors/decoding-- D/Aconverters--preamp denon--ampsect denon--speakers

    This is when using 7.1 analog input and letting the bluerayplayer do the decoding.

    Speakers system is Audiopro Blue diamond.
  9. bandphan Banned

    bandphan
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    It is correct.
  10. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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    No, Pure direct/Direct, on most Denons, still use the bass management but turns off all other processing and only puts out a stereo(L/R) signal. PD/D is used when a digital signal is provided.

    But you are correct that it works straight through unmolested.
    Signal from BRay -- preamp denon--ampsection denon--- speakers
  11. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    AVRat/
    So does Brayplayer or Denon do the bassmanagment if i take the audiosignal thru the 7.1 analog inputs?
    You got me confused.

    Another question,.
    Is there any known/typical problems with these amps that i haveto look out for?
    And is it only the 5803(avc-a1se) that have lipsync and not hte 5800(avc-a1sr)?

    BTW thanks for the quick replays. Excellent forum this is.
  12. bandphan Banned

    bandphan
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    The BRP or any component connect thru the x.1 analog inputs handles the BM.
  13. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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    That is correct.
  14. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    Have some more question regarding Denon 5808(avc.a1se) and 5803(avc-a1sr).

    You say that it will be BRayplayer that will handle bassmanagement when connecting with the 7.1 analog inputs.
    Does the Denon still handle delaytime and Db-settings for the different speakers, or will that too be handled by he Brayplayer?

    Also curious if anyone know what type of D/Aconverters there is in these amps. Im pretty sure its Burr-Brown 24bit 192khz, but what number?
    I know Yamaha Z9 has BurrBrown 1792.

    And thank agai for the quick answers.
  15. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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  16. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    I downloaded the manual now.
    Theres stated that when using the 7.1 analog inputs you can do bass management and Dbsetup if You select DSPmode(not puredirect).
    But then the A/Dconverters haveto take care of the signal before bassmanagement and so on can be chosen.

    So in DSP mode it look like this if i understand correctly,

    BRayplayer D/A -- Denon A/D -- DSP -- Denon D/A -- Preamp Denon-- Denon amp-- speakers.

    Question now is, can A/D-converters and D/Aconverters in the Denon be able too handle the signal. Or will it just sound like crap because converting signal to many times?

    BTW, the D/Aconverters in the Denon is called PCM-1738E.
    Anyone know of what quality they are? Compared to for instance PCM-1792.
  17. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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    Assuming you’re talking about the 5803? The DSP feature is something I wasn’t aware of for the EXT-INs. Thanx. But where in the manual are you seeing the bass management info?

    Denon wouldn’t add these features if it ended sounding like crap.
  18. Yamahaha Enthusiast

    Yamahaha
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    I found it on page 17 and 23.
    On page 17 it says,
    "The analog signal is convertes into a digital signal and undergoes DSP proccesing.
    Syastem settings setup(speaker configuration, chanel delay etc) are reflected in the same way as for other inputs."

    Dont know if i understood right. But doesnt this mean I can set bass managment too? And db setings?

    This is the Denon avc-a1sr(5803) modell.

    Now my question is this.
    How much impact will this have on the sound?
    I mean it can be good to have that many A/D and D/A convertings?
    And secondly, how good are the A/Dconverters in Denon?
    I know the D/Aconverters are good , but the A/D?

    And thanks again AVrat for all Your replies. very helpfull indeed.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
  19. PENG Audioholic Warlord

    PENG
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    If you compare the specs, the 1792 is better but the 1738 is also a high quality DAC. In real world listening comparison, everything else being equal, I doubt anyone can hear the difference. I am sure many people will claim they can, but it will be hard to prove it either way.
    PENG,
    • Like Like x 1
  20. AVRat Audioholic Ninja

    AVRat
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    This would seem to be true. I didn’t realize how much of an upgrade the 5803 was from the 5800.

    http://www.ultimateavmag.com/dvdplayers/105/
    From Ultimate A/V

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