complex DSP and room measuring software - music only

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by jp_over, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. jp_over Full Audioholic

    jp_over
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    I'm thinking about taking some measurements when I get back to the US to see what type of bass response my system is getting. Of note, this is a 99.9% music system.

    For those who measure, any suggestions on complex DSPs and room measuring solutions. For the room measuring equipment/software budget, I'd like to stay well under $400.

    Currently, I'm not sure what type of frequency response I'm getting, but I'd like to see it on a graph specific to my house. For those who use complex DSP solutions for bass, any lessons learned that I might benefit from?

    I'm keen on the new Funky Waves 18.# (not sure if the 2.4KW amp will require a 20 amp circuit which could be an issue) and the Velodyne DD18 Plus since both these subwoofers have a complex DSP option. Thanks!
  2. BoredSysAdmin Audioholic Warlord

    BoredSysAdmin
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    MiniDSP + Pluging + UMIK-1= approx $200 and it as sophisticated as they ever come
    or option b) get a passive sub - funky waves or chase 18 and get Behringrer iNukeDSP amp and above mentioned mic. This wouldn't be as streamlined, but you'd save even more $
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  3. Irvrobinson Audioholic Ninja

    Irvrobinson
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  4. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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    I'm also an OmniMic II user. It's very easy to set up and use, which is always nice.

    As far as correcting in room response, I'm fortunate that I didn't have a lot of problems at my listening position; one modest cut around 45Hz combined with a modest boost around 60Hz courtesy of my sub's built in PEQ were all I really needed to achieve a reasonably flat response. Oddly, Audyssey never did achieve as flat a response as I was able to (relatively easily) manually.
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  5. KEW Audioholic Ninja

    KEW
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    Steve,
    Are you running Audyssey plus the PEQ adjustments, or did you get by with only the PEQ adjustments?
    KEW,
  6. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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    I'm getting by with just the PEQ adjustments at the moment.
  7. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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    Thinking it over, I'd suppose that since Audyssey is correcting for multiple positions, that would explain why it would yield ostensibly worse results than what I can achieve by focusing on the main listening position. Of course, I'm not as concerned about fidelity in other locations (suffice it to say, my wife isn't complaining about the horrible bass quality at her seat), so it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
  8. Irvrobinson Audioholic Ninja

    Irvrobinson
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    Velodyne's auto-correction software is useless. Worse than useless, IMO, because it produces an equally bad but just different in-room response curve. The AH review of the DD18 Plus supports that conclusion.

    I wish I was as fortunate as you are to need so little bass correction. Setting up my system has been either an annoying PITA or an adventure, depending on my mood. ;) I use six active filters in the Velodyne, with various Q factors and levels. Of course, I have one of the worst rooms I've ever seen for bass response smoothness. One thing I'll say for Velodyne, the combination of the DSP and their Windows-based setup software makes sophisticated manual tuning very easy. Another really cool feature of the Velodyne for system tuning is that you can store five equalization programs in the sub and switch between them instantaneously with the remote at your listening seat. It's sort of the ultimate for tuning parameter experimentation.
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  9. jp_over Full Audioholic

    jp_over
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    This thread is an excellent one with lots of answers to basic questions - just what I needed!

  10. Steve81 Audioholics 5-O

    Steve81
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    I'd like to say it was skill in placement, but it's mostly just sheer dumb luck :D

    Here's the response at the listening position, unsmoothed:
    [​IMG]
    Not ruler flat, but pretty darned good for as little correction as is applied I'd say.
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  11. KEW Audioholic Ninja

    KEW
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    Might be interesting to run Audyssey with the microphone in the listening position for all trials and see how that compares.
    KEW,
  12. KEW Audioholic Ninja

    KEW
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    Are there any attributes of your room that you think make it so abysmal?
    Other than the H, L, W dimension natural frequencies and especially not wanting them all to be the same, I don't know much about what makes a room good or bad for bass response.
    KEW,
  13. Irvrobinson Audioholic Ninja

    Irvrobinson
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    Well, for one thing, it's not a room in the classic sense. We have one of those contemporary open floor plan homes. The family room, where the system is, is the left third of an open space that's about 45x21 or so. The part that makes up the family room has an 18 foot high vaulted ceiling, while the rest of the space has a nine foot ceiling. Above the area with the nine foot ceiling is a loft open to the family room, with an eight foot ceiling. I've guessed that the loft is causing some of the weirdness.

    The way the main speakers are set up they are about four feet out from the back wall, which is mostly glass, the left speaker is about three feet from the side wall, but the right speaker is mostly in open space; there's only a one foot deep corner on the right side. In these positions the Salon2s are wonderfully flat from about 500Hz onward, with a slight dip at 1.5KHz, but below 500Hz it's a war zone. Unassisted there's a strong room mode at slightly above 50Hz, with suck-outs above and below that frequency.

    In a better room I'm not convinced the Salon 2s would need subs for music at all. In my room the sub seems there mostly as a fill-in, and as another bass source to smooth response overall. (I'm currently running the Revels full range.) The output from the sub is really quite modest, but the effect of switching it in and out is very noticeable. There must be quite an interesting interference effect going on between the bass sources. One of my friends thinks it's eerie. I told him to borrow his son's high school physics text. :)
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  14. Speedskater Audioholic

    Speedskater
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    My random thoughts:

    a] Circuit Breakers- Unless you listen to train wreck movies at 115dB SPL, if the amp turns on with-out tripping the breaker, you should be good to go.

    b] Many guys, when the get a DSP equalizer, they go overboard with the EQ. In this case 'less is better the more'. Don't believe the kids in the TV commercial.

    c] The more you EQ one listening position, the poorer all other listening positions become.

    d] The more you EQ sustained sound, the poorer transitive sounds become.

    e] The more you EQ transitive sounds, the poorer sustained sounds become.
  15. Irvrobinson Audioholic Ninja

    Irvrobinson
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    I haven't noticed this in my room, though it would be irrelevant. I only listen in one position.

    I haven't noticed this at all, and I can switch out the EQ instantaneously from a remote at my listening position.

    Ditto.

    All of this might be true if you do full-spectrum EQ, and I'm only applying EQ in the bass (below ~150Hz), which may account for my experience not following your theory.
  16. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    I have noticed most of these effects in my room [that badly needs treatment]. Sustained sounds will build over a short period of time, so if I try to EQ them into being flat my transients will be under powered and vica versa.

    The way I dealt with this was by having REW recalculate the EQ curves multiple times, giving it less leeway each time until I found a happy compromise.

    Additionally, if you just think about uneven sound in a room it's pretty easy to see how EQing for one position could make another worse.
  17. Irvrobinson Audioholic Ninja

    Irvrobinson
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    Are you using EQ full-spectrum, or just in the bass, like I am?
  18. Grador Audioholic Field Marshall

    Grador
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    Minidsp on a subwoofer
  19. pnutbutter81 Enthusiast

    pnutbutter81
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    In my case, after using omnimic. I didn't seem to like the auto-eq, although it gives good hints to good direction. But I really prefer using the tactics to correcting dips like this article shows, how to manually put in your PEQ settings if available with the Q formulas. Multiple Subwoofer - Initial Setup & Measurements | Audioholics. Again, I used different scenearios to decided if they were pleasing to me and then be able to compare to flat response.

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