Complete newbie and confused - need coaching on AVR + stereo receiver + integrated

[tyhjaarpa]

Thank you all. I guess I'm down to 5 choices. Please help me decide on this final stretch.

• Marantz SR5011 (100W @ 8 ohms 2ch) -- $600
• Marantz NR1607 (50W @ 8 ohms 2ch) -- $490
• Denon X3300W (105W) -- $650
• Denon X2300W (95W) -- $450
• Denon X1300W (80W) -- $360

Looks like Marantz NR1607's 50W is extremely weak? And for Denon, is there a reason for me to drop $300 extra on X3300W as opposed to cheaper X1300W, especially if I'll only be listening to music via WiFi (FLAC, mp3, etc) from my computer?

You can save some money and buy last years model like Denon X3200W or Marantz SR5010/6010. Unless there is some features in this year model you need? As not much change in one year on AVR, for sound quality they will be equal.

Edit: For stereo listening 50 watts should be more than enough with as sensitive speakers as you have but if you happen to upgrade for surround then more power would be good. Also if your room is really big or you want to play really loud then more power would be good as well.

 

[artemasad]

SR5010 sounds just about perfect. $499, which is only $100 over my original budget.

I think I have the final two, which I can afford:

Marantz SR5010 - $499
Denon X3200W - $469

My only concern though: I've heard a lot of people describe Marantz as "warm" and Denon as "neutral". Now, I prefer vocal and high ends. If those people are correct, then Denon might be a better receiver to pair with my GoldenEar Triton Three+, which people also describe as "neutral". I don't know how true all these are... Or if it's really all in people's head. If multiple people can chime in on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.


EDIT: Just noticed all those items on accessories4less site are manufacture refurbished. No wonder why all the prices sound too good to be true. I suppose that's okay - I've always had great experience with refurbed items.

 

[everettT]

The 5009/3200 are pretty much the same, so a toss up. As for a "sound" it's your sources and the speakers that will dictate any sound.

 

[ski2xblack]

Artemasad, you must fine tune your Bullshit meter when it comes to the conflicting claims. Ask yourself, what's this all about? Getting down to the music, or a mis-informed, illogical consumerist snipe hunt?

 

[artemasad]

Artemasad, you must fine tune your Bullshit meter when it comes to the conflicting claims. Ask yourself, what's this all about? Getting down to the music, or a mis-informed, illogical consumerist snipe hunt?

I hope you understand where I'm coming from. As a beginner, I really had no idea and zero knowledge to base off anything. My Bullshit Meter is still being tuned as I type this, and didn't even start until I got the very first reply on this thread. I'm learning, sir.

 

[Diesel57]

Just reinforcing what tyhjaarpa has said, nothing at all wrong with going the 2 channel setup but don't set yourself up for regret, you can get & have the 2 channel setup with the Denon & Marantz avr and will have options if you decide to upgrade later along with features that you may want to incorporate now or later...Enjoy!!!

 

[ski2xblack]

You're doing fine so far. Just keep a skeptical eye toward unsubstantiated claims. The truth is that of the D&M Holdings brands, Marantz is touted as more upscale than Denon, and that's it. That's the big difference. They're engineered to the same standards, and probably use most of the same component parts for that matter. Claims of one being more warm sounding than the other are invariably the result of flawed methods of comparison, or simply reflect the user's personal preferences. (Speaking of which, I actually like the slim line Marantz AVRs for stereo use, mainly for the form factor. A full size AVR is, well, a full size AVR, typically huge. The slim line AVRs aren't as tall nor as deep, and they're equipped with L and R pre-outs, should external amps be necessary. The only drawback is that they may be poorer values in terms of $/watts+features as the two you're considering.)

 

[tyhjaarpa]

SR5010 sounds just about perfect. $499, which is only $100 over my original budget.

I think I have the final two, which I can afford:

Marantz SR5010 - $499
Denon X3200W - $469

My only concern though: I've heard a lot of people describe Marantz as "warm" and Denon as "neutral". Now, I prefer vocal and high ends. If those people are correct, then Denon might be a better receiver to pair with my GoldenEar Triton Three+, which people also describe as "neutral". I don't know how true all these are... Or if it's really all in people's head. If multiple people can chime in on this, I'd greatly appreciate it.


EDIT: Just noticed all those items on accessories4less site are manufacture refurbished. No wonder why all the prices sound too good to be true. I suppose that's okay - I've always had great experience with refurbed items.

Both receivers are great choices and they should be quite equal as well. I'm pretty sure you can't tell them apart by sound no matter what people say. Both receivers are designed to reproduce sound as accurately as possible. I think Marantz is marketed as upscale to Denon, like ski2xblack said, but I doubt this effects your experience with the receiver.

Yes, accessories4less sells manufacturer refurbished units and they come with manufacturer warranty which can be extended when you do purchase if you like. Quite many here have bought receiver from these guys and have been happy with their units.

 

[herbu]

I've heard a lot of people describe Marantz as "warm" and Denon as "neutral".

And I've heard a lot of people describe Hillary as trustworthy.
We're trying to tell you don't blindly believe what people say. Anybody can say anything... especially on the web.

An audio system has to satisfy 2 criterion... Accuracy and Preference.
The electronics strive for accuracy in their ability to amplify & reproduce the source material without distortion. (Note: Your MP3 files are digital... ones and zeros. How could any AVR make ones and zeros sound more warm or more neutral?) Their preference lies in their available features.

Speakers have the same 2 criterion. However, listener preference plays a much bigger role than in electronics. Some people like "warm", some like "neutral". There are an infinite number of shades in speaker tones, even among the most accurate. That's why we always say the best way to choose speakers is to listen to them.

I would encourage you to develop a habit on any audio forum or discussion. When someone makes a statement like, "Marantz sounds more warm", ask them to show you what in the specs verifies that. Push for a technical explanation, even if you don't fully understand all the technical jargon. Someone who really understands a technical subject can explain it clearly to a non-technical person. (Think of an engineer explaining a problem to an executive... or Abby explaining a problem to Gibbs.)

For your 2 final AVR choices, they're made by the same company and their accuracy will be the same. So look for any differences in features, (preferences). I suspect you'll be completely satisfied with either.

 

[artemasad]

Thank you all.


As a sidenote, Fry's Electronics have BRAND NEW Denon AVR-X3300W for an absurdly low price $539. I'm so killing myself for no longer living near them right now....

 

[PENG]

Thank you all. I guess I'm down to 5 choices. Please help me decide on this final stretch.

• Marantz SR5011 (100W @ 8 ohms 2ch) -- $600
• Marantz NR1607 (50W @ 8 ohms 2ch) -- $490
• Denon X3300W (105W) -- $650
• Denon X2300W (95W) -- $450
• Denon X1300W (80W) -- $360

Looks like Marantz NR1607's 50W is extremely weak? And for Denon, is there a reason for me to drop $300 extra on X3300W as opposed to cheaper X1300W, especially if I'll only be listening to music via WiFi (FLAC, mp3, etc) from my computer?

It does not seem like you need the latest D&M models so try to get the best deal for the slightly older models such as the AVR-X4200W (very good specs!), or the Marantz SR6010, SR7009 etc.

The X4200 and 7010 (not sure what 7009 has) has the same DAC chip that offers nice specs. As others mentioned before, DACs won't make much (or any) difference once you get past a certain point, especially if you listen to MP3 sources. You really need to find what you like in lossless formats if you want to benefit from any of the AVRs mentioned so far. You speakers are great, no issues there.

 

[artemasad]

It does not seem like you need the latest D&M models so try to get the best deal for the slightly older models such as the AVR-X4200W (very good specs!), or the Marantz SR6010, SR7009 etc.

The X4200 and 7010 (not sure what 7009 has) has the same DAC chip that offers nice specs. As others mentioned before, DACs won't make much (or any) difference once you get past a certain point, especially if you listen to MP3 sources. You really need to find what you like in lossless formats if you want to benefit from any of the AVRs mentioned so far. You speakers are great, no issues there.

Good idea.

At this point I'm not sure where to stop. In a way, I'm starting to question myself if I do even need anything as fancy as X2200/X2300/X3200/X3300. Heck, I'm starting to wonder why I even want X1130 given I will probably never hook up more than a pair of speakers and maybe a subwoofer to it - all just for playing mp3 via WiFi and potentially buy a mini-computer in the future with optical out and play higher quality source from it...

If the DAC on X4200 won't reveal any noticeable differences thank the DAC in X2X00 or X3X00 series, I probably won't go any further down the rabbit hole.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The 3200 is $599 on amazon. 4200 is $799 both have all the features you want.

Yeah, I would keep it simple and get either of those 2 Denon. They will sound fantastic as long as the original recordings are fantastic.

I have the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and AVR-5308CI. But if I were to do it over, I would just get the Denon X4200 for $799 brand new.

 

[artemasad]

Yeah, I would keep it simple and get either of those 2 Denon. They will sound fantastic as long as the original recordings are fantastic.

I have the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and AVR-5308CI. But if I were to do it over, I would just get the Denon X4200 for $799 brand new.

Ended up just scoring an open-box/display X3300 for $539! I can't go up to the $700+ range for things like X4200 anyway.

Now I got my receiver and speakers!! Next up is the speaker wires and I'm done! My budget for speaker wires is $300. Do you guys recommend AudioQuest? (just kidding)

 

[Diesel57]

Ended up just scoring an open-box/display X3300 for $539! I can't go up to the $700+ range for things like X4200 anyway.

Now I got my receiver and speakers!! Next up is the speaker wires and I'm done! My budget for speaker wires is $300. Do you guys recommend AudioQuest? (just kidding)

Congrats...AudioQuest...NO!, I can't remember the site that was given to me here that gives understanding and knowledge for cable and speaker wire, be still for a moment, the Special Forces are on the way...don't spend unnecessary money with AudioQuest, go to mono.com or bluejeans.com
By the way go to the setup section that states A/V Interconnects, Cables & Power Conditions that's on the home screen...

 

[artemasad]

Congrats...AudioQuest...NO!, I can't remember the site that was given to me here that gives understanding and knowledge for cable and speaker wire, be still for a moment, the Special Forces are on the way...don't spend unnecessary money with AudioQuest, go to mono.com or bluejeans.com

Thanks Diesel. I think I know which article you're talking about. I only need ~5-6 feet x 2, and my speakers are 8 ohms, so I don't require much. While I think I'll be okay with 16AWG, I will just be a bit conservative and go with 12/14. My choices are right now:

Mediabridge 12AWG, OFC - $32 a pair

Monoprice Affinity 14AWG, OFC - $23 a pair (after shipping)



Unless I'm wrong, I believe both of these are good and will make zero differences. I did look at Blue Jeans. Unfortunately I don't want to spend $67 for a pair of 12AWG with locked banana plugs, even though I'm sure the quality is great.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ended up just scoring an open-box/display X3300 for $539! I can't go up to the $700+ range for things like X4200 anyway.

Now I got my receiver and speakers!! Next up is the speaker wires and I'm done! My budget for speaker wires is $300. Do you guys recommend AudioQuest? (just kidding)

Good for you on the Denon X3300. It will truly sound awesome even compared to high-end pre-pro. I know because I also own a $7500 pre-pro.

 

[Diesel57]

Thanks Diesel. I think I know which article you're talking about. I only need ~5-6 feet x 2, and my speakers are 8 ohms, so I don't require much. While I think I'll be okay with 16AWG, I will just be a bit conservative and go with 12/14. My choices are right now:

Mediabridge 12AWG, OFC - $32 a pair

Monoprice Affinity 14AWG, OFC - $23 a pair (after shipping)



Unless I'm wrong, I believe both of these are good and will make zero differences. I did look at Blue Jeans. Unfortunately I don't want to spend $67 for a pair of 12AWG with locked banana plugs, even though I'm sure the quality is great.

 

[artemasad]

Good for you on the Denon X3300. It will truly sound awesome even compared to high-end pre-pro. I know because I also own a $7500 pre-pro.

AcuDefTechGuy (or anyone), please educate me on one thing.

Given the same spec as my old Onkyo TX-NR708 that I bought back in 2009, is there any consensus among Audioholics on whether there will truly be any noticeable differences in sound quality compared to the X3300W?

Both are ~100-105 W @ 8 ohms, 0.08% THD. Both are also reputable, non-snake oil brands. Specsheet wise, if I only listen to music, X3300W should not be any better, right? Unless there are things like upgraded DAC and other factors not listed on the spec sheet I am not thinking about.

 

[lovinthehd]

AcuDefTechGuy (or anyone), please educate me on one thing.

Given the same spec as my old Onkyo TX-NR708 that I bought back in 2009, is there any consensus among Audioholics on whether there will truly be any noticeable differences in sound quality compared to the X3300W?

Both are ~100-105 W @ 8 ohms, 0.08% THD. Both are also reputable, non-snake oil brands. Specsheet wise, if I only listen to music, X3300W should not be any better, right? Unless there are things like upgraded DAC and other factors not listed on the spec sheet I am not thinking about.

The Audyssey version in the X3300 is superior to your old Onkyo. Had I known you had the Onkyo I would have suggested simply using it, especially for 2ch use.....even if the dac was upgraded doesn't mean you can hear any audible differences, either (its mostly a specs thing these days). Altho that older unit doesn't have the wifi capabilities you want and you'd need a workaround....