CD, HDCD, SACD, DVD-A, DTS-CD, what is it all about?

Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Yesterday, having heard Diana Krall's new album on Apple Music, I decided to get it. I could download a 24/192 file for $ 21.99. I could download a 24/96 file for $17.99. I could download an AAC file for $9.99, or I could buy the LP for $29.99 and get a download of some sort for no charge. Of course, realizing I could buy a CD for just $9.99, I bought it, perceiving I would get top quality and the lowest price, making CD the best value. Now, why bring this up on this thread? Seems to me, for the most part, the mediums out there today vs 2006 are as controversial as then, with folks claiming LP sounds better than CD and other nonsense. For me, I still think CD's rule except for multi-channel where SACD still appears to be the defacto leader.
One of the nice things about being on this forum is seeing and reading about someone else going through some of the same decisions on music selection. I applaud your decision and the process. Its so tempting to believe in the HD audio siren song of extra bits = better sound. The prose writers who decorate the sites that sell HD audio formats do a great job of making every breath and pause sound like magic if you buy the HD version.

Like @BoredSysAdmin said in his post, if the dynamic range is in the low single digits it won't make a big difference what format you buy it probably won't sound all that great. Its one of the great challenges I face when looking for new music. My system is sounding pretty good so flaws and crappy recordings sound flawed and crappy. Finding new music that has great recording quality and tasty tunes remains a challenge. At least I am no longer distracted by the HD stuff.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
IMHO, hirez is CAPABLE of better sound, that doesn't mean that's what you'll get with every disc automatically. Even the best sounding remaster of a bad recording will never sound perfect. Conversely, an engineer can take a good recording and make a mess of it, so with all hirez material YMMV.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
IMHO, hirez is CAPABLE of better sound, that doesn't mean that's what you'll get with every disc automatically. Even the best sounding remaster of a bad recording will never sound perfect. Conversely, an engineer can take a good recording and make a mess of it, so with all hirez material YMMV.
I'm with you : the recording engineer and the musicians make the difference. The format has potential.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic Field Marshall
All,
I've enjoyed my home theatre for movies and music in its current configuration for about 17 years; and, everything I listen to has sounded really great no matter what the format. Sometimes I just don't think it can get any better. But, the other day I did make a discovery. I purchased a JBL Charge3 speaker for listening to iTunes while lounging on my outdoor terrace; and, while listening, discovered some of my digital AAC files sounded awful. It appears the digital to analog conversion is not as good as my home theatre's digital to analog conversion, or, perhaps, it's the Bluetooth connection. At any rate, it has made me think about DACs in general; and, my thoughts about it now pretty much conclude that the DAC is a more important consideration than the consideration for digital formats.
 
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2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
@Pogre

New Oppo205 owner...I bought this new toy more or less to replace an aging Rotel RDD980/RDP980 CD player.

Of course Hi-Res music was on my radar. After some research on the format, titles, and listening to suggestions from hi res vets such as @ j_garcia I bought a few SACDs last week and I've had a chance to listen to several of them. Purposely I bought a couple in stereo version that I already had in redbook format for a comparison.

Equipment...pre/pro - AV7702mkii, amp - Outlaw 2200 mono block (LCR) & Emo BASX A500 (surround) Source - Oppo UHD205, Main spkrs - B&W 804M, CC - Paradigm CC190, Side Sur - RBH RB5i, Sub - HSU VTF3 mk5 x 2

First Impressions

SACD Stereo

Come Away With Me...(hybrid SACD) Nora Jones, analog connection. I've played the reg. CD dozens of times. Off the top, the sacd plays about 4 db louder on the SPL meter. I thought the sound stage has her vocals are more on top of you, she sounds closer. I could not tell any difference in imaging. The instruments have more air, a cleaner sound. I will add playing it via the HDMI connection was brighter, not bad, but noticeable. The analog connection imo was better.

There's no WOW difference, but there is a difference. I paid $15 for it. I would do it again.

Explorations...hybrid SACD, Bill Evans Trio, analog connection. Also played slightly louder. The SACD recording jumps off the page a lot more, better separation in the instruments. Cleaner, more airy sound as well. For the $15 I paid, well worth it.

SACD Multi-channel

Brothers In Arms...hybrid SACD,Dire Straits. analog connection I have maybe 4 or 5 of these songs on my Itunes. AAC files. I wasn't sure what to expect. This SACD offers the WOW difference. Excellent engineering work here. All 6 channels are used. The LCR get the lionshare of the work. Vocals are mostly via the CC, the side surr spkrs get a reasonable amount of signal, guitar work mostly. Even with my hodge-podge LCR spkrs, I thought this very well done. Paid $12, this is a value at twice this price imo.

Kind Of Blue...hybrid SACD, Miles Davis. If you're into jazz, most likely you have this album or CD. This production has been offered in a variety of formats (LP, mono CD, stereo CD, SACD stereo, SACD multi) and not all are widely accepted as good. I have the regular stereo CD. The multi-channel SACD seems to get the most universal approval.

It's basically a 3.1 recording with Miles' trumpet taking center stage, and Coltrane's sax commanding one side of the stage, Addereley's the other. Drums and Bill Evans' piano are mixed in well across all front. Having the bass on it's own channel really separates this recording from my CD....the HSUs shine without being overbearing. The original SACD is out of print and can go for triple digits. I paid $30 for this hybrid SACD. While it doesn't really have the WOW difference, I like the multi-channel SACD version much better.

I'm not going to go through all of them but I bought a couple Dianne Krall, Eddie Higgins Trio, DSOTM arrived yesterday, so I'll listen to that one this evening.

Conclusion

The short and sweet version. For most recordings, it's in the details. The WOW factor will probably be in the multi-channel recordings for most people. If you've got a good source and speakers, I think you will hear some subtle details. I can see why audiophiles with money to burn were enamored with them when they 1st came out. They do get you you closer to what the sound engineers intended.

I can't imagine this format was ever intended to compete with 16/44 CDs, I can also see why the format failed to gain mass appeal even among people that truly like music. Not everyone has the equipment to really be able to hear much difference. Secondly, at double the price of a $15 redbook CD, it was pretty easy to pass.

I like them, and will continue to add to my collection. One very good thing for new collectors of SACD or Hi res music, the pioneers were eager to share their experience so there is enough review content is out there to help us avoid the bad recording pitfalls.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
@Pogre

New Oppo205 owner...I bought this new toy more or less to replace an aging Rotel RDD980/RDP980 CD player.

Of course Hi-Res music was on my radar. After some research on the format, titles, and listening to suggestions from hi res vets such as @ j_garcia I bought a few SACDs last week and I've had a chance to listen to several of them. Purposely I bought a couple in stereo version that I already had in redbook format for a comparison.

Equipment...pre/pro - AV7702mkii, amp - Outlaw 2200 mono block (LCR) & Emo BASX A500 (surround) Source - Oppo UHD205, Main spkrs - B&W 804M, CC - Paradigm CC190, Side Sur - RBH RB5i, Sub - HSU VTF3 mk5 x 2

First Impressions

SACD Stereo

Come Away With Me...(hybrid SACD) Nora Jones, analog connection. I've played the reg. CD dozens of times. Off the top, the sacd plays about 4 db louder on the SPL meter. I thought the sound stage has her vocals are more on top of you, she sounds closer. I could not tell any difference in imaging. The instruments have more air, a cleaner sound. I will add playing it via the HDMI connection was brighter, not bad, but noticeable. The analog connection imo was better.

There's no WOW difference, but there is a difference. I paid $15 for it. I would do it again.

Explorations...hybrid SACD, Bill Evans Trio, analog connection. Also played slightly louder. The SACD recording jumps off the page a lot more, better separation in the instruments. Cleaner, more airy sound as well. For the $15 I paid, well worth it.

SACD Multi-channel

Brothers In Arms...hybrid SACD,Dire Straits. analog connection I have maybe 4 or 5 of these songs on my Itunes. AAC files. I wasn't sure what to expect. This SACD offers the WOW difference. Excellent engineering work here. All 6 channels are used. The LCR get the lionshare of the work. Vocals are mostly via the CC, the side surr spkrs get a reasonable amount of signal, guitar work mostly. Even with my hodge-podge LCR spkrs, I thought this very well done. Paid $12, this is a value at twice this price imo.

Kind Of Blue...hybrid SACD, Miles Davis. If you're into jazz, most likely you have this album or CD. This production has been offered in a variety of formats (LP, mono CD, stereo CD, SACD stereo, SACD multi) and not all are widely accepted as good. I have the regular stereo CD. The multi-channel SACD seems to get the most universal approval.

It's basically a 3.1 recording with Miles' trumpet taking center stage, and Coltrane's sax commanding one side of the stage, Addereley's the other. Drums and Bill Evans' piano are mixed in well across all front. Having the bass on it's own channel really separates this recording from my CD....the HSUs shine without being overbearing. The original SACD is out of print and can go for triple digits. I paid $30 for this hybrid SACD. While it doesn't really have the WOW difference, I like the multi-channel SACD version much better.

I'm not going to go through all of them but I bought a couple Dianne Krall, Eddie Higgins Trio, DSOTM arrived yesterday, so I'll listen to that one this evening.

Conclusion

The short and sweet version. For most recordings, it's in the details. The WOW factor will probably be in the multi-channel recordings for most people. If you've got a good source and speakers, I think you will hear some subtle details. I can see why audiophiles with money to burn were enamored with them when they 1st came out. They do get you you closer to what the sound engineers intended.

I can't imagine this format was ever intended to compete with 16/44 CDs, I can also see why the format failed to gain mass appeal even among people that truly like music. Not everyone has the equipment to really be able to hear much difference. Secondly, at double the price of a $15 redbook CD, it was pretty easy to pass.

I like them, and will continue to add to my collection. One very good thing for new collectors of SACD or Hi res music, the pioneers were eager to share their experience so there is enough review content is out there to help us avoid the bad recording pitfalls.
Very cool. As you know I've been curious about SACD's and hi res recordings. Your impressions answered a few questions for me.

One issue I can see me having would be the lack of my favorite artists who actually even have SACD's out there. I've looked at a couple sites and it's usually nothing I'm interested in. My tastes vary, but I'm definitely a bit of a metal head. I like bands like Tool, Chevelle, Korn, sometimes a little Slipknot and some 80's and 90's heavier music.

Are SACD recordings pretty common or are the choices a little on the thin side? I've actually listened to some classical and jazz on my system just to see how it sounds. It was enjoyable, but just not my cup of tea. Nora Jones has a wonderful voice, but her musical style just doesn't grab me. I don't know it would be worth it for me to get a player if I can't find any of my favorite music to play on it.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Very cool. As you know I've been curious about SACD's and hi res recordings. Your impressions answered a few questions for me.

One issue I can see me having would be the lack of my favorite artists who actually even have SACD's out there. I've looked at a couple sites and it's usually nothing I'm interested in. My tastes vary, but I'm definitely a bit of a metal head. I like bands like Tool, Chevelle, Korn, sometimes a little Slipknot and some 80's and 90's heavier music.

Are SACD recordings pretty common or are the choices a little on the thin side? I've actually listened to some classical and jazz on my system just to see how it sounds. It was enjoyable, but just not my cup of tea. Nora Jones has a wonderful voice, but her musical style just doesn't grab me. I don't know it would be worth it for me to get a player if I can't find any of my favorite music to play on it.
Oh a metal banger huh. I can handle a bit of that as well. I have a nephew that's into Tool, etc.

That's a big one...gotta have some content that you like. I'm all over the board with genres, but classic rock, jazz, R&B, Reggae (my brother in law is a big reggae nut so I got maybe 300 songs from him on a couple of thmb drives) is mostly what's in my collection, female vocals, I have about 5 or 6 artist in that Nora Jones vein, some male big band type Sinatraish, Tony Bennett...lot of jazz and classic rock on SACD. I haven't even taken the wrapper off Jeff Beck Blow by Blow, plus about 4 others yet.

Amazon typically has the best prices, acoustic sounds has a much wider selection.

Definitely would not be worth a player for the hi res music part.
 
mdanderson

mdanderson

Audioholic Intern
Looking to buy Sting's Ten Summoner's Tales on DTS CD. Thanks.
 
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