Cables affecting sound stage?

[shadyJ]

I have noticed a few published double blind tests that show people can't hear differences with cables. So a DBT is like a survey on what people experience?

It's not a survey, it's a hard scientific experiment with a test group and a control group. As far as measuring human perception, I don't think a more rigorous test can be done, at least until the day computers can download, decode, and compare human experience by some quantifiable metric. However, at the rate that the brain is currently being charted along with the rate of growth in computational power and software sophistication, I have to wonder if that day may actually come about in our lifetimes.

 

[Goliath]

It's not a survey, it's a hard scientific experiment with a test group and a control group. As far as measuring human perception, I don't think a more rigorous test can be done, at least until the day computers can download, decode, and compare human experience by some quantifiable metric. However, at the rate that the brain is currently being charted along with the rate of growth in computational power and software sophistication, I have to wonder if that day may actually come about in our lifetimes.

Thanks for the explanation!

 

[walter duque]

I own this 6 foot cable from Verastarr - Silver Reference HDMI and a few other cables. I can't tell the difference from a $300.00 or $3.00 cable from parts express.

 

[PENG]

In the audiophile world it doesn't bother me much, as fools and their money are justly parted. It is only when this kind of insanity actually victimizes those who don't deserve it, like when parents attempt to treat their sick child with obviously fraudulent remedies. If some moron is told by a dealer that a $2k cable is going to open up their treble, and they buy it without doing any research into the matter, I say good for the dealer; dumbasses don't deserve to have money. I advise you to correct pseudoscience when its not too much trouble, but reserve your rage for those who actually do harm to the undeserving.

I would slightly disagree only because I know of good decent people being talked into buying things like $100 HDMI cable together with their new flat panel or BDP or some expensive Monster cables with their first HT system on a package deal. Those are normal people including possibly some retirees who finally have spare time to enjoy their AV but just don't know much about AV and don't really deserved to be gouged.

 

[Gordonj]

Cables can effect the sound you hear if they are inadequate, but adequacy is generally lower than a high priced cable. But if you are interested I'd be happy to sell you some of the best sounding cable in the world for only 100 dollars a foot. It may look like your standard home depot stock, but trust me it's so much more than that.

And don't forget the extra bag of smoke and the box of spare mirrors....

 

[Darenwh]

I can't believe you all don't think the cables you choose can impact sound stage. OK, lets say you start with a 3' long piece of cheap 12 guage speaker wire to connect your stereo speakers with them. You cut the speaker wire in half so you only have two 18" wires. You wire your stereo speakers to your receiver and turn it on with the speakers about 3' from each other. The result... You have a very compressed sound stage. Now, if you go out and purchase some top of the line, 10' long speaker wires, and wire your speakers up to your receiver, now about 20' apart depending on your room size, you will find that your sound stage just opens up like magic. Obviously, it's the better speaker wire that made the difference, not the greater seperation of the speakers... Looks like everybody should use expensive speaker wires...

 

[templemaners]

I can't believe you all don't think the cables you choose can impact sound stage. OK, lets say you start with a 3' long piece of cheap 12 guage speaker wire to connect your stereo speakers with them. You cut the speaker wire in half so you only have two 18" wires. You wire your stereo speakers to your receiver and turn it on with the speakers about 3' from each other. The result... You have a very compressed sound stage. Now, if you go out and purchase some top of the line, 10' long speaker wires, and wire your speakers up to your receiver, now about 20' apart depending on your room size, you will find that your sound stage just opens up like magic. Obviously, it's the better speaker wire that made the difference, not the greater seperation of the speakers... Looks like everybody should use expensive speaker wires

[video=youtube;FopyRHHlt3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M[/video]

Nice try , but no, you are incorrect.

 

[j_garcia]

 

[markw]

Nice try , but no, you are incorrect.

I honestly think he was being facetious*. Please re-read his post.

At least, I hope he was.

 

[templemaners]

I thought he was as well, but I couldn't take the risk on the off chance he wasn't.

 

[markw]

I thought he was as well, but I couldn't take the risk on the off chance he wasn't.

If he wasn't, then he unknowingly strengthened the case against expensive cables.

 

[j_garcia]

I took it as a joke too. Either way, it would be

 

[Darenwh]

Yes, it was a joke. The improvement, for those who don't know, would have occurred because the speakers would be farther apart instead of nearly on top of each other...

 

[jinjuku]

EEVBlog: [video=youtube;m7ERMu825m4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Top Ten Signs a cable vendor is selling you Snake Oil

Chris Wiggles cable challenge at AVSForum

My burned in / not burned in challenge: Polk Audio / AVSForum

 

[BMXTRIX]

People really had to be told he wasn't being serious? Oh man, audiophiles can be really gullible!

 

[markw]

People really had to be told he wasn't being serious? Oh man, audiophiles can be really gullible!

I think that was the main point of this entire thread, wasn't it?

 

[fmw]

We did a fairly exhaustive bias controlled test of cables of all sorts about a dozen years ago. We did find one pair of interconnect cables that did have an effect on sonics. That particular cable pair had a very high measurable inductance and tended to roll off the high end content of the music slightly. It created a "warm" sound. It was indeed a tone control. One would have to pay $700 for a pair of these cables in order to distort your audio signal. We found no sonic differences in any other cable - analog or digital. All the others were apparently properly designed and manufactured and ranged from $1500 to $1.50 in price. Cable sonics are the biggest lie in high end audio and there is no scientific reason that cables would affect soundstage. Speaker placement is the best way to adjust soundstage.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... One would have to pay $700 for a pair of these cables in order to distort your audio signal. .... All the others were apparently properly designed and manufactured and ranged from $1500 to $1.50 in price. ....

In another word, you could pay more than $700 and get the indistinguishable cable.


or just a $1.50

 

[fmw]

Actually you can spend $1500 to get one that is indistinguishable from the $1.50 one. The $700 one was the one that acted like a subtle tone control. So you can spend $700 and get some extra sonic distortion for your system. Our bias controlled tests involved 15 brands of cable and 12 audiophiles as a test panel. So it wasn't opinion. It was numbers.

 

[cyclebrain]

The original post requested scientific data regarding different cable affect on sound.
Any cable will have,
Resistance
Capacitance
Inductance
Propagation Delay
In the audio frequency range (so low that it is almost D.C.) Reactive components (inductance and capacitance) will be insignificant relative to the source and load.
Resistance will only be a factor if using too small of guage for the current.