Break In Time on Klipsch RF-82 II

[steve3d]

Should I expect a break in time on a new pair of RF-82 IIs? If so...how long? Some of the speaker reviews on other brands keep mentioning that they 'sound better after X # of hours of mid-volume 'warm up'.

Also...specifically pertaining to the RF-82s...can I expect much difference in their performance with a bi-wire / bi-amp setup.

Running them thru a Denon 3313ci.

Thanks for any replies!

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Break In Time is largely a myth. It is more like the time that your ears get used to the speakers and you can no longer return them for free...

Bi-wiring offers little to no improvement. I like the look so I do it but only for looks. It impresses my non-Audioholic buddies.

Bi-amp if done with separate amps and outboard x-overs may offer something but wound't be worth it IMO. Bi-amp off of an AVR offers nothing.

 

[Steve81]

Should I expect a break in time on a new pair of RF-82 IIs?

Suffice it to say that I wouldn't expect big differences in sound between the first hour of use and the hundredth hour of use.

Also...specifically pertaining to the RF-82s...can I expect much difference in their performance with a bi-wire / bi-amp setup.

Nope.

 

[Swerd]

P'Dawg said it all.

There was one time I did hear speakers sound different after about 15 or 20 minutes of playing time when they were new. It was a cold winter day, and the speakers had come from a cold warehouse and been on a cold delivery truck. When first out of the box and still very cold, they sounded poor. After warming up to room temperature, they sounded a whole lot better. The same changes would have happened if the speakers just sat there and warmed up without being played.

 

[markw]

If tey don't sound good after about three days of normal use, they will never sound good. Exercise your return policy.

I hope you saved your receipt, boxes, and all packing materials.

 

[Nuance AH]

Let them run for an hour while you go and do something else. Afterwards, put on some of your favorite CD's and give them a thorough listening session/workout. If you don't like what you hear then return them, as they won't be changing any.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, most of us here on AH believe that speakers & amps "break-ins" is a myth.

Even if the big woofers do change physically after 40 hrs by up to 10%, most of us don't believe you will notice anything audible.

Even Kal Rubinson of Stereophile don't believe in speaker break-ins.

But there are many people on other forums (including AVS) who believe very much in both speakers and amps break-ins. So if you ask this same question on AVS, you will probably get a different general answer, especially from B&W speakers owners.

 

[monkish54]

Some driver parameters tend to change (fs, VAS, and the Qs) after a short time, an hour or two, I believe. Some sites that test break-in specify more. There should be little to no change due to break-in. I'd imagine the drivers were tested and played for a while before they were even put in the enclosure anyway.

If you don't like the sound, don't waste your time waiting for break-in. Return them and we'll help you find something different!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Some driver parameters tend to change (fs, VAS, and the Qs) after a short time, an hour or two, I believe. Some sites that test break-in specify more. There should be little to no change due to break-in. I'd imagine the drivers were tested and played for a while before they were even put in the enclosure anyway.

If you don't like the sound, don't waste your time waiting for break-in. Return them and we'll help you find something different!

I pissed off a few B&W owners who totally believe in significant audible "night-and-day" changes with speakers and amps break-ins.

One guy even told me that 30 days was NOT long enough for these break-ins. He said you need 45 days or more.

Bill Fitzmaurice said the woofers break-in was up to 10% changes, which he thinks is a SIGNIFICANT audible difference.

I guess Audioholics (Gene) don't believe in this SIGNIFICANT audible changes?

 

[monkish54]

Bill Fitzmaurice said the woofers break-in was up to 10% changes, which he thinks is a SIGNIFICANT audible difference.

I trust Bill's judgment. It's not exactly difficult to test!

That said, I'd guess that many drivers are played and tested in the facility. Perhaps not, i'm simply not sure. I can't imagine ScanSpeak doesn't play and test their drivers beforehand. I'll ask PE if they or the manufacturer play the drivers to allow the suspension to change.

 

[ousooner2]

Ear break-in > Speaker break-line

 

[Duff man]

Have you ever noticed that every single person who believes that speakers change sounds after break in, all believe that the sound improves?? If a physical change really does happen, it's highly unlikely that the result is that every single speaker sounds better after the change and not a single one ever sounds worse.

 

[96cobra10101]

Not to Hi-jack the thread, but everyone give your opinion;

For your left and right mains, do use use equal length cables or enough cable to reach the speaker and make a connection?

In case I'm not clear;

Receiver is on left side of room, 10' from left side speaker, 20' from right side speaker. Do you use 2 20' speaker cables or a 10' and a 20'?

 

[ridikas]

I see a lot of opinions being thrown around, but is there anyone here who have actually designed, built, and tested loudspeakers and amplifiers? It always amazes me why more people into electronics refuse to learn anything first hand. Do some testing people!

ABSOLUTELY there's a break-in period. I've worked with all of the best manufacturers, Scan-Speak, Seas, SB, you name it. The T/S parameters change DRASTICALLY over time. Get yourselves a DATS from Parts Express: Dayton Audio DATS Dayton Audio Test System 390-806

It's only $100. And test some drivers before and after break-in. T/S parameters can change from 10-30% and sometimes more! Some Scan-Speak drivers which have been fully broken in can have parameters that are more than 100% different than what the manufacturer publishes

And yes, that directly has an impact on sound. Of course it always sounds better after break-in. The crossovers in any seriously engineered product were tested with fully broken in drivers. What sense would it make to design and test crossovers/loudspeakers with drivers that have not been broken in yet? There would be all sorts of errors.

Now for the amplifiers is a rather different story. ALL electronics perform and sound better after they have fully warmed up. For example, I can connect an amp meter in series with one of the rails feeding the output transistors. As the amplifier is just turned on, each output transistor may draw 80mA of current. After an hour, all transistor start to warm up and the current is now 100mA. After 12 hours, after everything has FULLY warmed up, it may read 115mA. The differences could be drastic. More current per output device almost always equals to lower distortion and better sound.

Offset drift usually stabilizes after the amplifier has fully warmed up.

Resistors are another story. Values change as the amp warms up. All amplifiers are adjusted and fined tuned after reaching max temperature of the circuit. Distortion is significantly higher until this temperature has been reached.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Not to Hi-jack the thread, but everyone give your opinion;

For your left and right mains, do use use equal length cables or enough cable to reach the speaker and make a connection?

In case I'm not clear;

Receiver is on left side of room, 10' from left side speaker, 20' from right side speaker. Do you use 2 20' speaker cables or a 10' and a 20'?

1 x 10' & 1 x 20'

 

[Bryceo]

Have you ever noticed that every single person who believes that speakers change sounds after break in, all believe that the sound improves?? If a physical change really does happen, it's highly unlikely that the result is that every single speaker sounds better after the change and not a single one ever sounds worse.

It's happend

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I see a lot of opinions being thrown around, but is there anyone here who have actually designed, built, and tested loudspeakers and amplifiers? It always amazes me why more people into electronics refuse to learn anything first hand. Do some testing people!

ABSOLUTELY there's a break-in period. I've worked with all of the best manufacturers, Scan-Speak, Seas, SB, you name it. The T/S parameters change DRASTICALLY over time. Get yourselves a DATS from Parts Express: Dayton Audio DATS Dayton Audio Test System 390-806

It's only $100. And test some drivers before and after break-in. T/S parameters can change from 10-30% and sometimes more! Some Scan-Speak drivers which have been fully broken in can have parameters that are more than 100% different than what the manufacturer publishes

And yes, that directly has an impact on sound. Of course it always sounds better after break-in. The crossovers in any seriously engineered product were tested with fully broken in drivers. What sense would it make to design and test crossovers/loudspeakers with drivers that have not been broken in yet? There would be all sorts of errors.

Now for the amplifiers is a rather different story. ALL electronics perform and sound better after they have fully warmed up. For example, I can connect an amp meter in series with one of the rails feeding the output transistors. As the amplifier is just turned on, each output transistor may draw 80mA of current. After an hour, all transistor start to warm up and the current is now 100mA. After 12 hours, after everything has FULLY warmed up, it may read 115mA. The differences could be drastic. More current per output device almost always equals to lower distortion and better sound.

Offset drift usually stabilizes after the amplifier has fully warmed up.

Resistors are another story. Values change as the amp warms up. All amplifiers are adjusted and fined tuned after reaching max temperature of the circuit. Distortion is significantly higher until this temperature has been reached.

Physical changes occur. People can measure them. But the point is, most of us cannot easily and obviously hear any significant differences.

It's like we can see the difference on measurements between speakers with FR of +/-3dB and +/-0.5dB or amps with SNR of -80dB and -130dB, but we may not easily and obviously hear a significant difference.

 

[Bryceo]

Physical changes occur. People can measure them. But the point is, most of us cannot easily and obviously hear any significant differences.

It's like we can see the difference on measurements between speakers with FR of +/-3dB and +/-0.5dB or amps with SNR of -80dB and -130dB, but we may not easily and obviously hear a significant difference.

His been band so it dosnt matter about his opinion any more but you get gold stars for trying

 

[monkish54]

Physical changes occur. People can measure them. But the point is, most of us cannot easily and obviously hear any significant differences.

It really depends on one thing: has the designer/manufacturer done a decent job?

Some T/S parameters determine box size, proper alignment, etc. If i throw my sub in a sealed enclosure, and some of the parameters significantly change...it's not gonna end well!

If the designer (diy) lets the cone play for a while, tests the T/S, and then models a box, break in will be a non-issue.

If the designer (large co.) has good QC, models a box for an already changed driver, and plays the driver for a while, break-in will be a non issue.

Break-in will only be an issue if the designer does not take it into account, and if the change is significant.

As for audiblity, that depends on luck. What parameters changed? Was my sealed QTC of .707 now 1.20?! Is the box still a good fit for the driver?

I'm not quite sure how much a drivers' parameters change. If it's significant...then there will probably be an issue.

Speaker Break In: Fact or Fiction? — Reviews and News from Audioholics

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

His been band so it dosnt matter about his opinion any more but you get gold stars for trying

I suppose some people will never learn, huh?

We tried to help, but we can't help people who just don't care.

Think he'll come back under a different screen name?