Bookshelf Speaker Debate (~$1500)

[Brennan Tighe]

Hello,

This is one of my first posts with in these forums and I'm hoping to get some good feedback! Lets see how good of feedback I can get! It's a tough question!

Recently I've started catching the classic upgrade fever and really ready to move from 5.1 to 7.1(2) configuration. I've sold most my gear, and upgraded a couple items as well.

My sold system was the Pioneer FS52 system with a Dayton Sub1000 on a small LCD tv with a Denon AVR e300.

My upgrades so far is a 55inch Vizio LED "E" series tv with a soon to be Denon x4000 receiver with a current Outlaw Audio LFM-1 Plus (killer sub) in a general 16x14 almost closed off but an exert for the doorway (like a 3ft, 3 sided "entry way" to the bedroom).

My next debate is speakers! Completely upgraded all 7 and using my FS52 Pioneers in another room, or hoping utilizing them in my 7.1 setup.

I'm debating on these speakers:
SVS Prime series bookshelves/center 1pair and 1pair of their satellites and FS52s
HTD level 3s bookshelves/center 2pair and FS52s
KEF q300 bookshelves/center 2pair and FS52s
EmpTek r5ti bookshelves/center 3pair

These speakers fit my budget similarly, but with the more expensive speakers I am hoping to utilize my FS52s saving money on stands and an extra set of speakers. Stands will be from HTD.com their wooden stands have a great look appeal and to me, they look sharper then those similarly prices Sanus stands (can't remember model).

 

[shadyJ]

I would go for the KEFs in a heart beat over any of the others, but then they are quite a bit more expensive.

 

[ImcLoud]

Why 7.1? I don't see that as an upgrade, rather just more speakers?

If you have a $1500 budget, I would go with
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=9SRM1NT2BS&Category_Code=BSTOCK
the matching center comes to 1088 shipped, then choose your surrounds, either wave crest hvl1's which are onsale through ascend, or fluance surrounds through amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00067OLOS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00CRMKJTQ&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0BKA9JQGMAZBTPWJ5441

even with a set of hvl1's for the rears and the fluance for the surrounds it will be under budget and sound better than anything I see in the list above...

 

[Brennan Tighe]

I would go for the KEFs in a heart beat over any of the others, but then they are quite a bit more expensive.

KEF has them for $499 which is equal to the SVS bookshelves.

 

[Brennan Tighe]

Why 7.1? I don't see that as an upgrade, rather just more speakers?

If you have a $1500 budget, I would go with the matching center comes to 1088 shipped, then choose your surrounds, either wave crest hvl1's which are onsale through ascend, or fluance surrounds through amazon

even with a set of hvl1's for the rears and the fluance for the surrounds it will be under budget and sound better than anything I see in the list above...

The x4000 supports 7.2 config. So why not utilize it?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would say - first thing first: Stop and reconsider your overall budget. 7.2 with average speakers is NOT as good as 5.1 with better speakers.
More speakers not always better.
Front speakers are much more important than surrounds. so invest heavy in lcr and sub and do skimp on surrounds.
X4000 is great choice for Hi-End AVR, but do AVR should not be 50% not even 30% of the budget. Ideally closer to 10-15% the rest in speakers.
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is already more than sufficient for your smaller room with makes Going with bookshelves for other speakers is a smart choice

 

[ImcLoud]

The x4000 supports 7.2 config. So why not utilize it?

First check into the list of real 7.x recorded material, its not that impressive... Second, I had 7.1 and I took the rears out, they dont sound natural, I tried different sets positions, ect they pull you out of the content, I personally do not like 7., I use 5.2 now and love it. I know a lot of people who appreciate 5. more than 7., of course there are guys who want speakers everywhere, but take it from me, My brother was up to 12.4 at one point and he is back to 5. {still .4}, there is no gain for the pain, try it you will see...

As far as your purchase, look into them ascend sierra 1's, they sound great for the money, $1088 shipped for the front stage, I can't think of a better one for the price... As far as surround speakers go in quality not quantity, they are effect speakers, no reason to spend a ton of money on them, I have heard systems wit $150 set of surrounds with a $6000 front sound stage, you would never know the difference if they spent $2500 on surrounds or $125...

 

[Brennan Tighe]

First check into the list of real 7.x recorded material, its not that impressive... Second, I had 7.1 and I took the rears out, they dont sound natural, I tried different sets positions, ect they pull you out of the content, I personally do not like 7., I use 5.2 now and love it. I know a lot of people who appreciate 5. more than 7., of course there are guys who want speakers everywhere, but take it from me, My brother was up to 12.4 at one point and he is back to 5. {still .4}, there is no gain for the pain, try it you will see...

As far as your purchase, look into them ascend sierra 1's, they sound great for the money, $1088 shipped for the front stage, I can't think of a better one for the price... As far as surround speakers go in quality not quantity, they are effect speakers, no reason to spend a ton of money on them, I have heard systems wit $150 set of surrounds with a $6000 front sound stage, you would never know the difference if they spent $2500 on surrounds or $125...

Thanks. How would you compare the KEF Q300s with the sierra 1s? The first stage is similar in price, almost to the dollar. I might as well just use my Pioneer FS52s as 5.1 surrounds then. Its between those two, I suppose.

 

[Brennan Tighe]

I would say - first thing first: Stop and reconsider your overall budget. 7.2 with average speakers is NOT as good as 5.1 with better speakers.
More speakers not always better.
Front speakers are much more important than surrounds. so invest heavy in lcr and sub and do skimp on surrounds.
X4000 is great choice for Hi-End AVR, but do AVR should not be 50% not even 30% of the budget. Ideally closer to 10-15% the rest in speakers.
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus is already more than sufficient for your smaller room with makes Going with bookshelves for other speakers is a smart choice

I'm buying this avr as a long term keeper. So when several years from now I have great speakers, I will still have this denon. Unless I should get something else.

 

[zieglj01]

This is what I would look at - the Philharnonic Audio Philharmonitor bookshelf
speakers. He will sell you a pair - and then buy one each for the center channel
[talk to him] the tweeter can be rotated, so you can place it horizontal for center
channel use.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/images/philharmonitor.jpg

http://philharmonicaudio.com/philharmonitor.html

For the surrounds, the Philharmonic AA [Pioneer modded] speakers will favor
the Philharmonic line sound, to work/blend well as surrounds.
http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html

So with-in your budget - you can get one pair of the Philharmonitor, one
each of the Philharmonitor [confirm this with Dennis], and a pair of the AA
bookshelf speakers.

I would at least contact Dennis at Philharmonic audio - and put all this on
a short list. Email is info@philharmonicaudio.com

http://philharmonicaudio.com/index.html

 

[billy p]

I would go for the KEFs in a heart beat over any of the others, but then they are quite a bit more expensive.

Interesting...would you care to elaborate how you've come to this impulsive conclusion...which speakers from that list have you personally auditioned

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks. How would you compare the KEF Q300s with the sierra 1s? The first stage is similar in price, almost to the dollar. I might as well just use my Pioneer FS52s as 5.1 surrounds then. Its between those two, I suppose.

I am not impressed with the kefs personally, the Q towers are OK for some of their sale prices, but until you get to the R and References series speakers I don't see anything amazing about them, a lot of people rave about the ls50 monitors and I like them, but then I think its a $1500 studio monitor, OK yah its nice? I don't know but the new White piano color asides, Kef doesn't flip my pages...

Now ascend, a well tuned speaker that was made to chase down companies like KEF, I am impressed, the sierra's for a long time have been one of the nicest Bookshelfs for under the $1500 mark at half that price they to me have surpassed many well regarded speakers costing 2-3 times as much...

Now we are talking about Home Theater use, I know a lot of guys don't feel the same as me on this subject, but I have been to movie sets, they aren't recorded {most of them anyway} in any special way, the wind is blowing, there is a chubby stage hand with mustard on his shirt eating a flaky pastry 6 ft from the quiet line, and even the finished product is supposed to sound a certain way so to say you can critically listen to a movie, DVD, bluray, or on HBO to me is silly. Next part of my point is most speakers are pretty nice now a days, the pioneers you have for example, to me if they are loud enough for you, they are very nice for TV duty...Last part of my "rant" lol, on the other hand, if you listen to music on your ht system, the previous information is moot, that changes everything, while I am a firm believer in separate systems for HT and music I do understand not everyone has the budge and or space to accommodate such thoughts... In this case, design the nicest front sound stage you can and use a really nice pair of sealed subs or one of the elusive ported subs that can do music as well as sealed...

So this is a slippery slope, I know there are some guys that spent tons of money on HT and have the opposite opinion of me, ported subs are perfect for music for them, avr's sound just as good as a preamp with mono blocks, they love multi ch music, or what ever, but that is the beauty of audiophile hobbies, no one is wrong, the best way to figure it out is to demo and listen as much as you can....

ANYWAY, I can talk about this forever, IMO for your price range the ascend sierra 1's are great, made in the USA speakers from a great company, you can call and talk to the owner and designer, you can demo them in your home and read tons of reviews for yourself, at the demo price with the $28 discount you get a lot for your money... When you want to upgrade you can step them up to series 2's for about double the price, and that would be my choice of speaker for the next price range up..

Another note the Philharmonitors are also a nice speaker, head to head with the sierra 1's, I am not sure, you will have to listen for yourself, the phils have a larger driver, but I to me the ascends sound very good and tight, no matter the driver size, its honestly a taste in audio decision no one can make for you, there are many more pairs of sierras out there than phils, now how many of them people listened to both speakers I don't know...

anyway, good luck, I hope my info helps you, and doesn't make the decision too much harder..

 

[Brennan Tighe]

I am not impressed with the kefs personally, the Q towers are OK for some of their sale prices, but until you get to the R and References series speakers I don't see anything amazing about them, a lot of people rave about the ls50 monitors and I like them, but then I think its a $1500 studio monitor, OK yah its nice? I don't know but the new White piano color asides, Kef doesn't flip my pages...

Now ascend, a well tuned speaker that was made to chase down companies like KEF, I am impressed, the sierra's for a long time have been one of the nicest Bookshelfs for under the $1500 mark at half that price they to me have surpassed many well regarded speakers costing 2-3 times as much...

Now we are talking about Home Theater use, I know a lot of guys don't feel the same as me on this subject, but I have been to movie sets, they aren't recorded {most of them anyway} in any special way, the wind is blowing, there is a chubby stage hand with mustard on his shirt eating a flaky pastry 6 ft from the quiet line, and even the finished product is supposed to sound a certain way so to say you can critically listen to a movie, DVD, bluray, or on HBO to me is silly. Next part of my point is most speakers are pretty nice now a days, the pioneers you have for example, to me if they are loud enough for you, they are very nice for TV duty...Last part of my "rant" lol, on the other hand, if you listen to music on your ht system, the previous information is moot, that changes everything, while I am a firm believer in separate systems for HT and music I do understand not everyone has the budge and or space to accommodate such thoughts... In this case, design the nicest front sound stage you can and use a really nice pair of sealed subs or one of the elusive ported subs that can do music as well as sealed...

So this is a slippery slope, I know there are some guys that spent tons of money on HT and have the opposite opinion of me, ported subs are perfect for music for them, avr's sound just as good as a preamp with mono blocks, they love multi ch music, or what ever, but that is the beauty of audiophile hobbies, no one is wrong, the best way to figure it out is to demo and listen as much as you can....

ANYWAY, I can talk about this forever, IMO for your price range the ascend sierra 1's are great, made in the USA speakers from a great company, you can call and talk to the owner and designer, you can demo them in your home and read tons of reviews for yourself, at the demo price with the $28 discount you get a lot for your money... When you want to upgrade you can step them up to series 2's for about double the price, and that would be my choice of speaker for the next price range up..

Another note the Philharmonitors are also a nice speaker, head to head with the sierra 1's, I am not sure, you will have to listen for yourself, the phils have a larger driver, but I to me the ascends sound very good and tight, no matter the driver size, its honestly a taste in audio decision no one can make for you, there are many more pairs of sierras out there than phils, now how many of them people listened to both speakers I don't know...

anyway, good luck, I hope my info helps you, and doesn't make the decision too much harder..

Thanks for your reply. This set-up is mostly for blu-ray movies, but some music. I'm having trouble with that also. What is a solid way to play MY music through my speakers? A simple rca>3.5mm driver connected to my laptop? (from monoprice).

My current sub is the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. Which is very suitable for me in my room. I will later in the next few months be purchasing another because of a null in my room that's bothering my playing some music.

Once, again, thanks for the lengthy response.

 

[lsiberian]

I suggest doing an in home audition of any speakers you might like. Until you hear them in your home you won't know which is best for your own setup.

 

[ImcLoud]

Thanks for your reply. This set-up is mostly for blu-ray movies, but some music. I'm having trouble with that also. What is a solid way to play MY music through my speakers? A simple rca>3.5mm driver connected to my laptop? (from monoprice).

My current sub is the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. Which is very suitable for me in my room. I will later in the next few months be purchasing another because of a null in my room that's bothering my playing some music.

Once, again, thanks for the lengthy response.

As far as playing music from your laptop through your AVR, I would use one of these if on a budget http://www.amazon.com/Signstek-Coaxial-Converter-Decoder-Analogue/dp/B00FEDHHKE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1419301458&sr=8-1&keywords=muse+dac

If you are going to get another outlaw sub i would jump on the next one you see, when they are no longer available you will be stuck with the single because mixing different subs does not work...

 

[Thunder240]

I've heard both the Phils and the Sierra 1s, although unfortunately not head to head. Both were outstanding speakers, but I recall having a more visceral (in a good way) reaction to the Sierras. Again, my listening auditions were NOT head to head, so take it with a heaping teaspoon of salt. I might have just been in a more receptive mood when I heard the Sierras, or had more coffee that morning, or whatever. Bottom line is you'll be very happy with either, I'm quite confident.

Also, I happen to own a pair of Ascend CMT-340SE's (these are a step down from the Sierra-1s), which I use together with an Outlaw LFM-EX for a 2.1 bedroom system. The sub and the speakers work great together. Also, the system can play music just fine. (I'm driving the speakers with an Odyssey Stratos.)

On the question of 5 vs 7, I am currently running a 5.1 system in my livingroom even though my receiver is capable of 7.1. As others have pointed out, very little content is available in 7.1. However, I've been tempted for some time now to add a pair of heights and use them to run Dolby ProLogic IIz. Special mixing isn't required. Most reviews say the improvement is only marginal, but I can get an extra pair of matching surrounds for real cheap.


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