Blu-Ray Disc or HD-DVD?

Discussion in 'GENERAL AV Discussions' started by Clint DeBoer, Jun 18, 2004.

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Blu-Ray Disc or HD-DVD?

  1. Blu-Ray Disc

    12 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. HD-DVD

    7 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Fish heads

    9 vote(s)
    32.1%
  1. Clint DeBoer Banned

    Clint DeBoer
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    Blu-Ray or HD-DVD? Which one do you think will win and why?
  2. Rob Babcock Moderator

    Rob Babcock
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    I'd really love to see Blu-Ray win out, but it's starting to look like HD-DVD. It sounds like they have more momentum and some key supporters.

    Lets just hope that when rubber meets the road there's just ONE FORMAT.
  3. Khorn Audioholic Intern

    Khorn
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    Looks like Blu-Ray has the edge. I hope that in this case the most technologically advanced system is adopted. HD is so far and away better than SD that I just can't wait for it to appear on DVD. I hope that we don't end up with a system hobbled by backward compatibility issues because SD dvd players have become a "commodity" of sorts specially in pricing. If we had to I think most of us could afford buying a High Definition only DVD player and keep our present ones for SD viewing if that's what it takes. I imagine though universal players will be readily available down the road a bit.

    IMHO the main issue as to what system will prevail will be down to copy protection as that is the primary concern of the content providers. I would hope that "reasonably" priced High Definition DVD players (under $1000) will be available within a couple of years.
  4. Jamie Guest

    Jamie
    Blu-ray all the way!

    It has to be Blu-ray.
    1. Theres more room on the disc.And its recordable.
    2. Its using MPEG 2 and NOT mpeg(divx or xvid) cos they're rubbish
    I have seen several sites saying mpeg4 is better than mpeg2
    It may look good on a 19" PC monitor but on a 62" projector its
    rubbish.
    3. Its backed by the 7 of the main players in the market.
    They even say its going to take longer to produce.
    For a manufacturer to say its going to take longer bring to market
    than lesser HD-DVD they must know their on to a winner.
  5. djoxygen Full Audioholic

    djoxygen
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    The saddest thing about this whole HD situation, IMO, is that none of us will be able to compare apples to apples. Since the SW publishers appear to be lining up on one side or the other, we won't be able to watch "Return of the King" on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray side-by-side and pick which one is "best".

    I like the idea of more space and less compression, but MPEG-4 can do a phenomenal job - much better than MPEG-2 if properly applied. Leaving out the resolution, even the best DVDs show some noise and posterization in places. We'll obviously get better resolution either way, but I'm not sure that color will be much improved with Blu-Ray, but the higher compression rate of HD-DVD probably won't help.

    What might be the best is a Blu-Ray-sized hardware layer with MPEG-4 software, but we're not going to get that choice, are we.
  6. djoxygen Full Audioholic

    djoxygen
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    Mmmm... My hat sure is tasty!!

    The current situation appears to be that MPEG2, MPEG4, and VC-1 are all being allowed on both HD-DVD and BD-ROM. While I believe that MPEG4 on BD-ROM is the optimal solution from the perspective of quality, having all 3 formats available on both platforms means (yay!) even more consumer confusion.

    The practical effect of this is that hardware players of either flavor will be required to play back software encoded in any of the 3 compression schemes. Cool, except that now the marketing force of Microsoft (which owns VC-1) will almost certainly try to overwhelm the (lack of) marketing force of SMPTE (which "owns" MPEG) and try to establish VC-1 as the "standard" for high-definition video.

    As one who works with video compression on a fairly regular basis, everything I've seen, read, and experienced with my own eyes points to MPEG4 being the superior codec. I hope that, at the very least, the studios and publishers will specify the coded on the packaging so I can avoid VC-1 movies.
  7. gottagame Audiophyte

    gottagame
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    Think about this

    Alright, you all brought up valid points to guide your hi-def format choosing.

    I just want to let you all know a few things. First, the difference in space between the two formats is about 45.7gb hd-dvd as opposed to ~51gb in blu-ray. That's not enough to sway the decision either way. You should also consider the fact that the protective layer on blu-ray is about .1 mm while hd-dvd is about .6 mm. This is really bad for gamers using the ps3 because many gamers dont take extra special care of their disks. Anyway, thats food for thought. I'm out.
  8. Jedi2016 Full Audioholic

    Jedi2016
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    Blu-Ray.

    1) More storage. The 45GB HD discs don't exist in production yet. And remember that while HD has three-layer discs in the lab, BD has eight-layer discs in their lab. The fact remains that a BD layer can hold more than half again what an HD layer can. 25GB/layer instead of HD's 15GB/layer.

    2) Higher bitrate for video.. 54Mb/sec over HD's 36Mb/sec. That means higher quality. It'll work hand-in-hand with the higher capacity, to maintain a constant higher bitrate for movies.

    3) More Hollywood support. Blu-Ray has pretty much everybody except Universal (for now, Universal will probably follow Paramount and WB and support both). HD-DVD has only three major studios, and two of those are also supporting BD.

    4) The Playstation 3. People keep saying this isn't a big deal, but I look at it and I see millions of Blu-Ray players in people's homes practically by default. Like it or not, that's a HUGE advantage for BD. You know damn well that Sony's going to hype the hell out of it.. BD movies will have big stickers on them saying "Playable in PS3!!" so all those millions of households will know that they don't have to buy a separate player to watch them. Maybe it won't make a difference for people who aren't buying a PS3, but I am buying one. And I'd much rather get movies I can watch on a device that I already own, rather than spending another $500 or so on something else. Especially since I'm running out of connections on my reciever for digital audio.

    gottagame - In addition to the storage thing I mentioned in point 1, you should remember that BD has a new type of protective layer than HD and DVD are using. Even though the surface is thinner, it will actually be more resistant to scratching than current DVDs are. And I, for one, take care of my games.

    Oh, and don't forget the media... I seem to recall the latest report said something to the effect of "HD-DVD's Days are Numbered". The public reads those things, you know. While we may know more than the average consumer in regards to this sort of thing, they're still forming their own opinions based on what's in various newspapers and magazines.. and they're all saying the same thing.. that BD is superior to HD in every single category.

    I honestly can't understand how anyone, especially on a forum like this one, could possibly support the lesser format.
  9. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

    BMXTRIX
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    BD will win for one reason:

    PS3

    Once you have a player in half of America's homes, then there is content just demanding to be made.

    DVD took what - 5 years or something to reach a million homes?

    When PS3 is released, it will, quite literally, take Blu-Ray Disc about ONE HOUR to be in a million homes.

    The studios are seeing this already and are seeing the problems with HD-DVD and their failed pre-2006 launch. HD-DVD is setting themselves up to fail and even microsoft won't be able to save them.
  10. MACCA350 Audioholic Chief

    MACCA350
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    Jedi2016 wrote:
    Neither does Blue-Ray's 50gb. The've only been able to produce them in their lab

    You think thats usefull for video? :D Consider this: with a 50GB disc running at 54MB/second you'll have 15 minutes of movie watching without sound :eek: And thats not the bitrate for video, those figures are for total data transfer speed (which will only ever be reached for things like data archiving in the computer enviroment and such)

    With a 90min movie on 50GB the transfer rate will run 9.25MB/sec, and that includes audio and nothing else on the disc, far below either camps max transfer rates. So this point is useless.

    Didn't they learn from the DVD-A v's SACD battle for supremacy :rolleyes: Bring out two competing high quality formats, and NONE reign supreme, you just confuse the F..K out of the average joe so he buys neither!

    cheers
  11. Jedi2016 Full Audioholic

    Jedi2016
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    The transfer rate is in megaBITS, not megaBYTES. But it's still half again as fast as HD-DVDs transfer rate. And yes, it is for video, if you've looked at the stats. Data streaming is at 1x, 36Mb/sec like HD, but they specifically state that video can be streamed at 54Mb/sec. Which, combined with the larger disc space, means less overall compression, which means higher quality imagery.

    And 50GB discs are a hell of a lot closer to production than the 45GB HD discs. They can make them, they just don't have a high enough yield percentage at the moment. All they have to do is work out the kinks. And they've stated on multiple occasions that the 50GB discs will be available at launch. HD has made no such claims.
  12. djoxygen Full Audioholic

    djoxygen
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    http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/cemadvdsales.html

    In the US alone, it was about 18 months.

    More than 6 million Playstation 2 consoles were sold in North America in the first 14 months.

    If HD-DVD players cost around $1000 at their early 2006 introduction, and PS3 is at or under $500 when introduced within 6 months, Blu-Ray will dominate the market. BMX is absolutely right. We should all have our eyes on the Xbox 360 launch. PS3 will do no worse than that in initial sales.
  13. mjcairney Audiophyte

    mjcairney
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    Neither should win - everyone should sit back and buy nothing until the companies involved can agree on a common format.

    Cheers,

    Martin.
  14. mjcairney Audiophyte

    mjcairney
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    Interesting article here

    Cheers,

    Martin.
  15. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

    BMXTRIX
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    Of course, that article didn't mention PS3 once, which is a player a million people will buy. I would not support either, but I think the PS3 tips the balance and I would rather see this war end sooner, rather than later.

    If Samsung comes out with a dual-format player, this may end the same way DVD+ and DVD- formats have. No winner, they both exist with a fair bit of market share and very few people complaining (overall).
  16. whyme Audiophyte

    whyme
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    Has the Adult Film Industry decided on which format too support? This will decide the winner, not Playstation X.
  17. racquetman Audioholic Chief

    racquetman
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    Uhhhh, I'm sure your porn collection is extensive, but I think you are giving the industry more pull than it actually has.

    I read an article about how the adult film industry is a factor, but believe me they are not the deciding factor. Most people I know have a few more "normal" (for lack of a better word) movie titles than porn titles. :)
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Buckeyefan 1 Audioholic Ninja

    Buckeyefan 1
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    I go out of my way to find DTS porn over DD. The sound is so much better. You've got to give it to those sound engineers in the porn industry. Nothing beats the sound tracks utilized in the great Peter North features. :rolleyes:
  19. Humberto Enthusiast

    Humberto
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    It should be about compatibility and not storage

    Hi folks!

    I can be wrong but Toshiba's HD-DVD players will be able to play our DVD discs, what won't happen with Blu-ray.

    When the current DVD format was launched, one of its greatest features was the possibility to play our CDs. Tell me if you liked that. Of course you did.

    I'm still pleased with DVD format and what I have read in several websites is that people won't go to Blu-ray, despite of all its features.

    Also, I don't wanna be monitored by the player's company. To use Blu-ray you must be connected to the internet.

    For me, it should be about compatibility and not storage.

    Regards.
  20. BMXTRIX Audioholic Spartan

    BMXTRIX
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    Yes, you are wrong. :)

    Neither format supports the old formats natively, yet both formats will have the circuits and laser inside to support legacy formats. The PS3 has already said that it will be backwards compatible with all existing games, which are DVD based. So, quite clearly, it will include the new blue laser as well as the old red laser.

    Backwards compatibility will not be an issue from either format.

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