Blew another amp...can you guys help?

[bushido]

This is my first post here. I just registered, so forgive me if my issue has been addressed and is in the archive somewhere, but I need some sound =) advice.

I have several 70's-era Epicure speakers. Four M202's, and 2 400's. For the time being, I am running the 202's in 2 adjoining rooms, and NOT as part of a home theater. (I don't have a home theater)

The speakers have a toggle switch to set them up for 4 ohm, or 16 ohm impedance.

The most recent receiver that seems to have blown up after a night of loud musical enjoyment was an older Marantz Century collection model RS 3557 that refused to turn on the next time I tried to use if after the aforementioned night.

I was running 4 speakers total using the A, and B outputs, and had the ohm-selection switch on the back of the receiver to the lower setting. My head starts to hurt when I try to figure out the technical aspects of impedance and stuff, but I had figured 4 speakers @ 4 ohms each equals 16 ohms total, and I set the switch to correspond.

The sound was great, and was nearly full blast for a few hours with no problems. The speakers love the juice, and my small house was full of sound....alas, the next time I tried to play music, it would not turn on. the small light near the "on" button illuminated, but the system wouldn't fire up.

And before anyone reminds me that you "get what you pay for," I wish to report I bought the receiver on my local Craigslist for $40, and will not have any more than say $100 to replace it, though I may barter some other stuff.

My goal is to find a system that can support music in multiple rooms. I am not looking for any kind of home theater set up, just music, which is supplied by a CD player or my Ipod which has 13,000 songs on it.

If I hit the lotto someday, I'd buy some Mcintosh stuff I suppose....but for now, I am lucky to have a job at the Ford plant here, earning the Tier 2 wage, and only want to listen to music, which has always been my salvation. I've had the speakers for nearly 30 years.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

God Bless
Puff
Michigan

 

[markw]

I have several 70's-era Epicure speakers. Four M202's, and 2 400's. For the time being, I am running the 202's in 2 adjoining rooms, and NOT as part of a home theater. (I don't have a home theater)

The speakers have a toggle switch to set them up for 4 ohm, or 16 ohm impedance.

I had figured 4 speakers @ 4 ohms each equals 16 ohms total, and I set the switch to correspond.

That's not the way it works.

I'm not quite sure if I understand what you're saying about that 4/16 ohm switch but I do know that two four ohm speakers in parallel, which is what you get when running both A and B speakers simultaneously, are seen by the amp as two ohms.

Receivers don't like two ohm loads ...at all.

You shoulda set 'em to that sixteen ohm position. That way, your amp would have been working with an eight ohm load, not two and most likely would still be working.

 

[j_garcia]

4 speakers at 4 ohms is 2 ohms per side and too much for almost any receiver on the market, then or now. The A/B connection is for either or, not really both for this reason, though it is permitted by the receiver under the assumption that you had the manual and saw that it likely says no lower than 8 Ohms if running both A+B. One pair would likely be fine. Switched to 16 Ohms it will likely work as well, though your output will drop slightly as well.

 

[Pyrrho]

In general, it is a good idea to have one amplifier per speaker. In the case of a two channel stereo amplifier, it is two amplifiers and so hooking up two speakers (one to each channel) is fine, assuming normal speakers (i.e., not low impedance speakers). If you want to do something other than that, you need to be very careful. If you have two pairs of identical speakers hooked up in parallel (which is, by far, the most common way with A and B connections on a single stereo amplifier), you halve the impedance that is presented to the amplifier. Thus, two identical 8 ohm speakers in parallel is 4 ohms. If they were hooked up in series, then it would be 16 ohms, but that is not how amplifiers are typically wired when you use the A and B terminals on them. With 4 ohm speakers, it would be 2 ohms in parallel and 8 ohms in series. Most amplifiers cannot handle 2 ohms, and you should expect them to die if you abuse them in such a way. If you look in your manual, OR on the back of the amplifier near the speaker terminals, there is virtually always a warning about the impedance of speakers that you can safely use. If you choose to ignore the warning, you are lucky if you only destroy the amplifier, as it is also possible to start a fire and burn down your home and die a grisly death in a fire.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm gonna say that it's just great that you can blow through what you own with no care in the world. I mean, $40 here, $100 there. What's it matter right? It's only money.

In my case, I can't afford to take such losses, so instead of talking about how much I don't care about my stuff, I take the time to do a bit of research to ensure that what I buy will actually work with what I own and I make sure it is all setup properly so that I don't damage it. If the car needs premium fuel, then that's what I put in it. If I can't afford premium fuel, then I don't drive the car, or I get a car that only needs regular fuel.



Seriously though, sarcasm aside...

I would recommend you check eBay and your local Craigslist for a power amplifier you can connect directly to a source. A professional grade amp which can definitely handle a 4 Ohm load, if not one which is stable to 2 Ohms.

It will be tough to find for under $100, but search, and keep looking.

Crown cts 600 2CH Power Amplifier 871015000244 | eBay

This model has some potential as it will offer plenty of power to the speakers even if configured as a 2 ohm load to the system:

Behringer NU3000 Inuke Ultra Lightweight High Density 3000 Watt Power Amplifier | eBay

This is also a 2 ohm stable amplifier:
QSC Professional Audio USA 900 Rack Mountable Power Amplifier Rackmount USA900 | eBay

The commercial amps are often 2 ohm stable, provide a ton of overhead in terms of sound, and used ones often come out of board rooms or other systems where they haven't been driven terribly hard. They represent a good value on the used market and could potentially last you a lifetime.

 

[Rickster71]

The M202's come with a switch in the back that changes them from 4 to 16 Ohm.
A little research would tell you to switch them to 16 Ohm, before you blew up any amps.
EDIT: Posted before I read through and just repeated what was already said.

 

[copmagnet82]

If you want to run 4 speakers in stereo mode, you should probably look into getting a basic 5.1 AVR, hook up your 4 speakers to front L/R and surround L/R channels, one speaker per channel, and run that set up in multichannel stereo mode.

If you do decide to get an AVR, I don't think you'll find anything that can handle 4ohm load in your price range, so make sure you leave the speakers at the 16ohm setting. That should work for what I think you're trying to do. If you continue to do what you did, you'll go through receivers faster then you can go through a roll of toilet paper.

Spend money once on something decent, hook it up properly, and you should be fine.

 

[bushido]

Thank you for taking the time to offer your advice.

There is a switch on the back of the receiver for the ohm setting..."A" or "B" or "A+B". I had used the latter, and consequently (guilty as charged in other great replies in this thread), wired the speakers in such a way that the ohm-age was diluted, not summed. ie, 4+4=2, not 8.

As you guys smile, I will confess I had thought that a 2 ohm load would be gentler on an amp than say, 8. In my limited research, it seems that low-ohm speakers are generally of very high quality and rather hard to find, no? It has been my understanding that when a 4 ohm receiver is matched with a 4 ohm (high quality?) speaker, you have the ideal set up...the amp is working efficiently and the speakers are not being stressed. Is that right? No need to go into great detail...just the rule-of-thumb observation here would suffice.

 

[bushido]

Ouch, and thanks.

Many thanks for taking the time to school me and point me.

And try not to see me as a guy who willingly throws money down the drain...as a side story: One of my pair of Epicure M202's was $20 yard sale purchase...that required no refoaming or Human Speaker tweeter replacements...the 120G ipod was a $45 CL purchase...and with the Marantz, well my total cost for my A-speaker jam session was $105...undoubtedly the best bang-for-the-buck experience I've ever had....from Carlos Santana Samba Pa Ti live, to Dave Brubeck Take 5 live, to George Duke Reach for It...I had a perma smile knowing I had not dropped a year's pay on the gear....

...and in my defense, I had done reading on line, AND read the owner's manual thoroughly...if only I had found Audioholics earlier....

REALLY cool of you to shop for gear...but don't' deny (like all the guys on here I assume) that you don't also find joy in looking for gear....especially when you find that yard-sale find, right? admit it!

If I am reading you right, I can find an amp...just an amp, no pre amp, no receiver, no eq...and just run my CD player and ipod through that...(I rarely listen to radio anyway).

Sure sounds simple enough...but, most of these amps have merely A, B speaker outlets. If/when I want to supply other rooms (I hope to refoam all 8 of the Epicure 400 woofers soon and integrate them...they are 8 ohm, not toggled 4/12) would I need to get yet another amp?

Another guy who kindly replied to my thread here suggested a 5.1 system and running one speaker per channel....r,l,f,r. There sure are a LOT more 5.1+++'s out there than simple amps...or maybe I just haven't nsearching for the right thing.

These popped up in a spontaneous search here a few minutes ago (more than $100...but if they're not like "toilet paper.....")

Sony N80ES Power Amplifier

MARANTZ SR7500 THX RECEIVER *QUALITY!*

repair project bose 1800w amp BOSE 1800 amp

NAD separates if you want radio: NAD 2600-A AMP, PRE AMP , TUNER

Crown XLS 602 $300 Crown XLS 602 Amp

Nightclub set up for the house? Crown Professional Macro-tech 3600VZ $925 Crown Professional Macro-tech 3600VZ High End Powerhouse AMPLIFIER

...onward and upward

Thanks again!

 

[bushido]

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

My house is hard wired for smoke detectors...and fire extinguishers in every room!!

Onward and upward

 

[bushido]

Thanks for tanking the time to spank and help me!

I replied to another post on my thread with a message I had intended for you...though it appears it is now attached elsewhere. In it, I had links to local CL listings, and my thanks for your advice and sarcasm....

Onward and upward
Puff