best subwoofer for under $500?

afterlife2

afterlife2

Audioholic Warlord
Just got an email from outlaw the sale Is extended till April 16.:D
 
H

hemingray

Enthusiast
pddufrene, I'm in your boat.

Burned my old BIC 10" sub amp out. Polk PSW505 caught my eye at Amazon for $189, then they increased it to $249. I started looking at the $300 price point, did a lot of reading and found out how crummy the budget subs really are (and since I had a crummy one, the descriptions resonated with me!). Really liked the $500 price point of the PB-1000, and decided to see what else was in the neighborhood. Thought of one PB-1000 now and another later. Aw, maybe I want a 12 inch. Price point keeps going up! $550, $650, $750.... It's easy to get enthralled with the features and low, low, low response. For me, the PB-1000 would KILL what I had before - and I was pretty happy with it 'til the amp fried. So despite all the push recommending spending just a little bit more, I know what you mean about having to hold on your budget amount. There's always something just a little bit better, for just a little bit more (usually defined in $100 chunks!)

I'm not pulling the trigger on something a lot more expensive myself without realigning a few things, but decided I don't want to get a sub that's really good - only to know in the back of my mind I want to upgrade later. So I decided to adjust the budget accordingly. I know the PB-1000 would be a great sub for me but I don't have the room for a pair, so I decided to get something larger and stick with one unit instead. I'm going through bass withdrawal - several weeks now - but I'm holding out for the best thing I would be happy to spend on. As for sales and stuff - can't do anything about that timing, when the budget allows, I will price everything then and make my final selection.

My current faves, in no particular order are: HSU VTF-2 MK4, Outlaw LFM-1 EX, Rythmik LV-12R, SVS PB12NSD and PC12-NSD.

To me, those are the next step up from the $500 price point. Good luck to you and take your time analyzing!

PS: to all the posters here at Audioholics - thanks for all the great info! It's actually a bit fun not being able to lay out the credit card yet, and having all this time to analyze what I think would sound best for me. All the reviews and comments are really helpful, whether experience or opinion!
 
pddufrene

pddufrene

Audioholic
hemingray, ya you right! Tell you what I'm learning a whole lot from these guys and you right they make it interesting to try and make a decision. But like you said its nice for a change. I normally just say ok, and by the first thing that pops up that sounds good. But this time I want to do it right and these guys are a huge help and are extremely informed. Let me know what your final results are when you get your new sub. I might not have bought mine yet and still need another opinion lol!
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
hemingray, ya you right! Tell you what I'm learning a whole lot from these guys and you right they make it interesting to try and make a decision. But like you said its nice for a change. I normally just say ok, and by the first thing that pops up that sounds good. But this time I want to do it right and these guys are a huge help and are extremely informed. Let me know what your final results are when you get your new sub. I might not have bought mine yet and still need another opinion lol!
For a room your size, you need to decide whether or not you want to go for two subs like the SVS PB-1000 which will give you more even in room response to one Outlaw or HSU 12" Sub like the LFM-EX1 which could fill a whole room for slightly less money then two SVS PB-1000s. You have until April 16 to make up your mind sp you have some time to mull it over.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
STF-2 only goes to 25Hz and really not much below that. PB12 goes to 18Hz and will likely do 25Hz with a lot more authority than the STF-2, so this isn't telling the entire story and is not how I would compare these particular subs.
The SVS Canadian distrubutor said I should expect higher than 103db at 20Hz for my room. That's way more capability that I will ever need. :)
 
pddufrene

pddufrene

Audioholic
Lol, you might have to get a bigger room. From what everyones telling the outlaw is the way to go. So I'm gonna have to make some adjustments to my budget and possibly head that direction unless there's something else in the same price range as the outlaw to look at.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
The LFM-1EX is basically equivalent to a VTF-3 MkII, so that gives you an idea when you compare it to HSU's offerings (currently offering MkIV). For the price, the only thing that will likely beat it is DIY. To improve on it considerably, we will get in to that "for $100" more scenario again :) The subs mentioned by hemingray are sort of the choices in this range, but I don't think any of those will have quite the output of the LFM-1EX.
 
pddufrene

pddufrene

Audioholic
Cool, there's so many choices and not enough money! The story of my life. Lol
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
And even when you make more money, there's always something more expensive.
 
pddufrene

pddufrene

Audioholic
Tell me about, no matter how much I make I'm always broke! Lol
 
pddufrene

pddufrene

Audioholic
After I finish purchasing my audio I need to upgrade my tv. Samsung 75" here I come. Lol
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
What is "rated" is one thing, what is measured is another. And yes, we don't have measurement of either VTF-1 MK2 or PB-1000.

Based on the data of BIC PL-200/HSU STF2 vs PB12-NSD, I would say:

STF2 > PB12NSD
MK2 > STF2
PB12NSD > PB1000

Therefore, MK2 > PB1000.
1) Let me get this right... The STF2 which is a 10" ported sub in a 2.3cubic foot enclosure is better than the PB12NSD with a 12" driver in a 4.3 cubic foot enclosure? Both have the same peak power. You do the math.
2) We don't know that the STF2 is better than the MK2. That is an assumption on your part. I would say they are more similar in performance than one better since the volume of the enclosures are almost the same and the amplification is closely matched as well
3) You got number three correct although the little PB-1000 will almost match the bigger 12" in extension but the bigger sub has higher output.

Unfortunately, your conclusion does not add up.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The VTF1 is slightly more powerful sub than the STF2. According to Hsu its driver is slightly better. They are a lot alike though. The VTF1 is really just a STF2 with more features. I think the VTF1 is more useful, I would run it in max output mode, because I would rather have loud 30 hz bass and no 20 hz bass than only moderate output in both the 20s and 30s. Also, there is no way a STF2 is beating a PB12 NSD, it will get killed, especially in deep bass. As for the VTF1 vs the PB1000, on paper they are a lot alike, same driver size, same enclosure volume. The PB1000 gets more extension through a longer port. The VTF1 may have more output above its tuning point, but that would depend on several factors. Anyway, I think the VTF1 might make more sense, because who cares about deep extension if its not backed up by enough output to make it palpable. A face-off between the two would be interesting, I would expect the PB1000 to have a bit more output overall, but it depends on how much output is traded for deeper extension, so I could be wrong.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
The VTF1 is slightly more powerful sub than the STF2. According to Hsu its driver is slightly better. They are a lot alike though. The VTF1 is really just a STF2 with more features. I think the VTF1 is more useful, I would run it in max output mode, because I would rather have loud 30 hz bass and no 20 hz bass than only moderate output in both the 20s and 30s. Also, there is no way a STF2 is beating a PB12 NSD, it will get killed, especially in deep bass. As for the VTF1 vs the PB1000, on paper they are a lot alike, same driver size, same enclosure volume. The PB1000 gets more extension through a longer port. The VTF1 may have more output above its tuning point, but that would depend on several factors. Anyway, I think the VTF1 might make more sense, because who cares about deep extension if its not backed up by enough output to make it palpable. A face-off between the two would be interesting, I would expect the PB1000 to have a bit more output overall, but it depends on how much output is traded for deeper extension, so I could be wrong.
It would be a cool shootout between the PB1000 and VTF1. I think they would come out close in over all performance. That's why I was so surprised by the strong statement issued earlier favouring the VTF1. If the OP can get the Outlaw while on sale, then he's got a solid sub.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
1) Let me get this right... The STF2 which is a 10" ported sub in a 2.3cubic foot enclosure is better than the PB12NSD with a 12" driver in a 4.3 cubic foot enclosure? Both have the same peak power. You do the math.
2) We don't know that the STF2 is better than the MK2. That is an assumption on your part. I would say they are more similar in performance than one better since the volume of the enclosures are almost the same and the amplification is closely matched as well
3) You got number three correct although the little PB-1000 will almost match the bigger 12" in extension but the bigger sub has higher output.

Unfortunately, your conclusion does not add up.
I stand corrected.

I was going on the actual measurement between the BIC PL-200 vs PB12NSD @ 32/40/50/63Hz:

SVS PB12-NSD: 105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0

BIC PL-200: 102.5/107.7/110.4/108.1

You can see that the $278 BIC PL-200 (which I incorrectly assumed was the HSU STF2) has more output @ 40/50/63Hz.

But, then ShadyJ pointed out that the PL-200's numbers were not limited to the 10% THD that the PB12NSD was limited to, so it's not a fair comparison.

So I was going on false assumptions.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
I stand corrected.

I was going on the actual measurement between the BIC PL-200 vs PB12NSD @ 32/40/50/63Hz:

SVS PB12-NSD: 105.9/106.5/107.3/108.0

BIC PL-200: 102.5/107.7/110.4/108.1

You can see that the $278 BIC PL-200 (which I incorrectly assumed was the HSU STF2) has more output @ 40/50/63Hz.

But, then ShadyJ pointed out that the PL-200's numbers were not limited to the 10% THD that the PB12NSD was limited to, so it's not a fair comparison.

So I was going on false assumptions.
No worries :) . Just trying to figure where everyone is coming from and going too. :D
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Slumlord
These are on sale right now too. Two of them would be well under $500 and should get you by, but I kind of doubt that two are going to be better than a LFM-1EX :)

Dayton Audio SUB-1200 12" 120 Watt Powered Subwoofer 300-629

I called out Outlaw and they would give me a $90 credit towrads shipping to Canada so the price would come up to $720.79 . I still would have to pay customs and because its built in China, I would have to pay an additional $60 on duty. Dam!!! :(
 
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