Best affordable setup for a nomad.

[Faustblix]

New to these forums, seems other places I've asked questions don't get much of a response. So will lay out here in the beginner area.

Most young people don't have a house of their own established yet, and switch apartments frequently or living situations, moving their setup to rooms of many different sizes and layouts. On top of this, additional funds to go spending $3K towards their addiction isn't an easy or available option.

So for someone who's in an ever-changing surrounding, has limited funds, and a thirst for quality, orgasmic audio... how can he or she get the best sort of setup running?

1. Lets say... budget of under $1500?

2. What are some decent speaker options, combos? 5.1 or 7.x? That can manage to be applied in bedrooms as easily as living rooms, when small bookshelf speakers don't seem to cut it?

Are there any purchasing guides that have been put together by members of this forum for what to look for in your speakers and receivers, that takes a beginner or audiophytes' knowledge to the next level of understanding?

Thank you in advance for any help?

- A yearning addict who's receiver is dying.

 

[jostenmeat]

There just isn't such a thing as a magic bullet. I can tell you from first hand experiences, when you change a room or setup, I wish I could make my purchases all over again. Not that I regret the stuff, as I still greatly enjoy it, but there is no magic bullet.

My first thought is to buy stuff that is well respected enough, where it's easy to sell, for the time you do move into a huge castle, etc.

For dedicated HT, for example, some of the popular commercial types of speakers would look horrible in a LR for example (not that you can really afford them, but making a point).

Just start reading in the loudspeaker forum. I think of Infinity, Ascend, and PSB as good values. If you are ok with only a single pair with your budget, or maybe a front three, I would try to find someone near you with Salk.

Of course, you can make your own speakers too, but YMMV. There are kits available, for an in-between compromise. I don't know how those kits fare compared to the above ideas. Same goes for subs.

 

[Faustblix]

Thanks for some of this help Josten! I've scoped out the brands and these are just around the range I've been looking for.

So far, I've been looking mostly at:

Ascend's HTM-200 SE, Ininity's Primus series, but really kind of fond of the PSB imagine series. Definitely looking more into Salk too. Their models look a bit strange for the most part.

So far between the HTM-200 SE, the Primus series, and the PSB Imagine, would you have any strong preference to work with an HK 354?

 

[jostenmeat]

For Ascend, I would definitely step up from the 200SE, to at least the 170SE. I think in your shoes, you would be happiest with the 340SE out of their lineup. The finishes are not sexy, but that's not where your money is going with this line.

Yeah, some of the Salks look quite different, but you can pretty much only afford their Song series, which look more normal. The towers are quite tall, due to the nature of their design, which is something you may consider. These can be sexy as you want them, as they can be custom finished.

The PSB Imagines are pretty expensive, pretty much at Salk Song series pricing, if not higher. The Image line is probably more in line with your budget.

 

[SopRage]

Couldn't make out if that $1500 covered a receiver and sub as well, but...

with that budget, I like:

Speakers:
Ascend Acoustics
HTM-200 SEs (5 speakers) - $664

Subwoofer:
SVS
PB10-NSD - Around $525

Receiver:
RX-V665 (From the Audioholics Store) - $324

Total: $1500ish

I agree that the CBM-170s from Ascend are a step up, but if size and set-up have to stay flexible, the HTM-200s' smaller cabinet and sealed design will make them more flexible for sure.

Should you not need the receiver, you can upgrade the subwoofer to a PB12-NSD. For either sub you'll want to soon add a Gramma or Great Gramma to make sure your neighbors don't kill you.

I've had/used Ascend's HTM-200SEs, CBM-170SEs, and CMT-340SEs. I'm sure you'll be quite hapy with those HTM-200s until you find yourself in a permanent, large room.

 

[Seth=L]

If a Nomad is what you are, and 2 channel is perfectly fine for you I suggest getting a Onkyo, Teac, Cambridge Audio, or maybe a Denon CD/Receiver. I have a Teac CR-H220 CD receiver and I can't tell you much I love it and it's perfect for the Nomad within. It's small, however robust, and it functions like a full size component without being large. After that, I'd say get a pair of bookshelf monitors of good quality and perhaps a reasonably sized subwoofer. IMO, moving a pair of bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer is easier than moving two large tower speakers (mostly for the possibility of accidental damage).

Teac just introduced a new range of Reference series components, which have some great features.

Among them are the CR-H238i and DR-H338i. The CR-H238i is a CD/Receiver, similar to the CR-H220 I have, but has a new appearance and several new features. The CR-H238i also has USB and flash memory interfaces to listen to music from USB and SD card devices. It also has 2 auxilary inputs as well as a dedicated subwoofer output. The DR-H338i one ups the CR-H238i on power and with the added support of DVD over the CR-H238i's CD only player. Granted the price increases by about $200, which you prefer comes down to how nomadic you truly are.

The Cambridge Audio AR30 is a bit more pricy than the Teac components but it offers a robustness you'd swear it felt like a quality integrated amplifier. The Cambridge Audio AR30 has a chunky toroidal transformer and a fully discrete output stage. Again we have a dedicated subwoofer output. At a street price of $500 this kind of bulk doesn't come cheaply for compact components, and you'd have to drop another $259 for the Cambridge Audio DV30 1080p, HDMI capable, compact DVD player. Oddly the matching CD player, Cambridge Audio CD30, costs more than the DVD player. For all intents as a nomad, the DVD player makes the most sense.

Denon's newest offerings in this category are limited to extremely expensive. You may get lucky looking on ebay to see what's available.

Onkyo's CD receivers are commonly offloaded for cheap. They offer discrete output and certainly are no slouches. I'd certainly have a look around for those if you want to put more money into speakers. The Onkyo's have dedicated subwoofer outputs on most models as well.

 

[Faustblix]

At the moment, I have my PS3 as my HD source, and another source would be my PC with DVI to HDMI adapter for video and optical out from Asus P5Q-E Motherboard (believe it supports up to 7.1), both running into my Harman Kardon AVR 354.

The 354 has been overheating and video has been cutting out for seconds at a time. If its given a fair amount of time to cool down, then there isn't really a problem, but I do some web design and live on my PC. The HK is the heart of everything I run and do at home, and sometimes stays on for 24 hours +, depending on what I'm up to and who else wants to use my systems.

Display is a first gen W series bravia 47", without the 120 motion flow.

Figure most young dudes, jobless or not, nowadays have either an xbox or a ps3, or some HD source. If they're lucky enough or devoted a paycheck, they have an HD display, quality or not.

The two hardest parts financially are a high end receiver, and what I'm coming to understand more and more, high quality speakers. To be honest, I've always counted on the receiver to make the difference.

My room right now is rather small, and before it, I'd had a master bedroom in a massive apt, and a beautiful living room area. I move a lot back and forth across country, and even more so within the same province during any given year. Ideally, anyone I figure looking to spend this amount of money, would prefer to only have to spend it once, and never have to shop again, so that when their living situation is finalized, they can have the near perfect setup that they put together years before, function and be excellent then.

Always thought the best way to make the right purchases and not have to buy 6 times over and waste $2k, is to come to the guys who've been through many setups, purchases, and love it all to death.

Those Teac components looks really sweet. Very interested in setting one up in another room. I'd never known of them until you noted em Seth. And all of these speaker recommendations are extremely helpful, I've been researching them all to find the best bet.

Would the overall consensus on speakers be that the Ascend HTM-200 SEs are better than the Infinity Primus series'?

 

[Seth=L]

The Ascends should perform better than stock Infinity Primus series of similar size. Modified could be another story entirely.

 

[Faustblix]

The Ascends should perform better than stock Infinity Primus series of similar size. Modified could be another story entirely.

Modified? Man you guys are awesome . Do you happen to have any guides or info on How To and results? Sheesh, you dudes could charge people for your intel.

 

[Seth=L]

Modified? Man you guys are awesome . Do you happen to have any guides or info on How To and results? Sheesh, you dudes could charge people for your intel.

I think they would rather charge you for the work. A few users here have modified their Primus speakers, the most notorious being WmAx (Chris). Chris has been on hiatus because of an injury, but he should be back in action relatively soon. He and a few others that followed him might be able to point you in the right direction (avaserfi is very knowledgeable and so is lsiberan). I know there are others, but I am drawing blanks on their names right now.

I'm personally not handy with that kind of work and knowledge (I love speakers, but I know more about receivers and such).

 

[jostenmeat]

The Ascends should perform better than stock Infinity Primus series of similar size. Modified could be another story entirely.

Not everyone agrees with you. I'm pretty sure Avaserfi prefers the Infinity. Alex has been recently saying that he believes the Infinities can do with more power because of difficult current/voltage phase angle. When it comes to WmAx, he just mods them all, Ascends included. If you asked Ascend about the mods, they might wonder out loud about the need, as they like their bracing. I'm sure the mods make it better, at the expense of extension, but there seems to be differing opinions on just how much cabinet resonance can affect things, at any certain level. Obviously, Chris has taken this obsession to new heights.

If it was me, I take the Infinity pretty easily over the 200Se.

 

[Faustblix]

Well, I feel I'm definitely in between the two sets, and feel I can save a more high end set for a later date. Still a young fellow and have time. The primus or the Ascends would both be an upgrade to my current speakers.

Now its become quite the trouble deciding. They both look beautiful. At first glance the Ascends look like they are built more solid, but there's just so much that I don't know about power, and speakers, that I wouldn't dare judge on looks.

So far, where things are standing, it sounds like the Infinities may be better than 200 SE stock, and could even become better with modding, but then, doesn't seem all that agreed upon. Would it be possible to ask for just a bit more help deciding by chance dudes? Do you happen to have more info or wisdom that could help guide a noob to the right choice?

Sincerely appreciate it. Josten and Seth, you dudes rock.

 

[jostenmeat]

At this point, you are already way ahead of the curve. I started with a HTIB for crying out loud. You can pick blindly, and you can already be assured of getting an excellent value. Selling should be just a piece of cake, if you ever needed to. So with that said, you can buy both, and sell the pair that doesn't please you the most. We would be interested in your impressions. Ascend does have at least a 30 day satisfaction/return policy. You would lose on shipping I think, so you could instead sell it up in CA.

 

[SopRage]

At this point, you are already way ahead of the curve. I started with a HTIB for crying out loud.QUOTE]

I bet yours was better than mine; I started with a $99 RCA 5.1 "home theater system." I have a picture from when I opened the box, beaming wth pride.

Oh, to go back in time and hear it now...

 

[Faustblix]

At this point, you are already way ahead of the curve. I started with a HTIB for crying out loud. You can pick blindly, and you can already be assured of getting an excellent value. Selling should be just a piece of cake, if you ever needed to. So with that said, you can buy both, and sell the pair that doesn't please you the most. We would be interested in your impressions. Ascend does have at least a 30 day satisfaction/return policy. You would lose on shipping I think, so you could instead sell it up in CA.

Excellent point. Not sure how good I am on funds for buying both sets, but I can start getting it quoted and see where things stand and what return policies are going to be.

 

[Seth=L]

Not everyone agrees with you. I'm pretty sure Avaserfi prefers the Infinity. Alex has been recently saying that he believes the Infinities can do with more power because of difficult current/voltage phase angle. When it comes to WmAx, he just mods them all, Ascends included. If you asked Ascend about the mods, they might wonder out loud about the need, as they like their bracing. I'm sure the mods make it better, at the expense of extension, but there seems to be differing opinions on just how much cabinet resonance can affect things, at any certain level. Obviously, Chris has taken this obsession to new heights.

If it was me, I take the Infinity pretty easily over the 200Se.

However, the cabinet quality of the stock Ascends is higher than the Infinity stock cabinet. The stock Infinity cabinets have known cabinet resonance issues. This is why I said the stock Ascends probably perform better than the stock Primus on everything aside from perhaps off axis response because of the superior cabinet quality. The drivers and x-over aren't bad in the Ascends either. By performs better I mean measures better. That's my educated guess of course, it's possible that the stock Primus measure better than I think they do.

 

[Faustblix]

After checking prices, I feel I'm really only going to be able to order one of these sets. If I'm lucky, here in Quebec, I may find a dealer carrying the Infinity series, to hear in a test room.

I definitely value cabinet quality. The one spot though where I've really never thought much about is 2-way vs 3-way, and mixing both types.

I'd been wondering about:

Infinty
1 x PC350 3 way center.
2 x P 362 3 way fronts.
2 x P 162 2 way for surround.
Cost before tax: $1215 Audioholics.

Ascend
1 x CMT-340 SE Center
2 x CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower fronts
2 x HTM-200 SE surround
Cost before tax: $1068 straight from Ascend.

 

[Faustblix]

After looking into things more, I feel most comfortable with the infinity set. Just a bit of a bump here, hoping that you guys might be able to direct me to maybe a guide or a bit of information regarding using 3-ways and 2-way speakers. If you have 3 way fronts is it best to have 3 way surround as well? Any bit more help is really appreciated. I'm hoping to order this weekend if I could.

 

[WmAx]

However, the cabinet quality of the stock Ascends is higher than the Infinity stock cabinet. The stock Infinity cabinets have known cabinet resonance issues. This is why I said the stock Ascends probably perform better than the stock Primus on everything aside from perhaps off axis response because of the superior cabinet quality. The drivers and x-over aren't bad in the Ascends either. By performs better I mean measures better. That's my educated guess of course, it's possible that the stock Primus measure better than I think they do.

?? If you mean Ascend CBM-170, the cab is inferior to stock Infiinity. Ascend has NO bracing; their idea of bracing is some tiny triangle pieces glued to the corners in the cabinets. The Infinity uses the same build quality of cabinet as the average high end speaker or DIY speaker: 3/4" MDF with 2 shelf braces and 1 cross brace.

As for speaker cabinet resonance issues: I don't think anyone can be serious about SQ with a resonant speaker box being present.

The Infnity's cabinet is poor - certainly. But it also has a major issue of insufficient internal acoustic damping material - an even more serious problem. Actually, the material used in the main cabinet of the Primus has NO effect on the bandwidth of the woofers. They may as well have left it empty. The Asends, on the other hand, fill their cabinets with a semi-good damping material in a reasonable packing density. Far more effective than what Infinity does.

-Chris

 

[lsiberian]

?? If you mean Ascend CBM-170, the cab is inferior to stock Infiinity. Ascend has NO bracing; their idea of bracing is some tiny triangle pieces glued to the corners in the cabinets. The Infinity uses the same build quality of cabinet as the average high end speaker or DIY speaker: 3/4" MDF with 2 shelf braces and 1 cross brace.

I know exactly what you are talking about. I'd need a special tool to even cut braces that small. IMO the fill issue is more easily corrected. Bracing is a lot more work. I'd start with the infinities and pick up a sheet of rockwool and some grill cloth.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66322 is an example of how to do it right with the rockwool. I can tell you firsthand that good damping goes a long way toward improving sound in any system.