Beginner looking to purchase a nice system

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icing_11

Audiophyte
Hi everyone. I fit the profile exactly for this forum being a true beginner. I recently bought a new house with an open 13’6” x 28’ finished room in the basement with plans of using it both as a movie room on one side and a game room (pool table) on the other. I have room inside a custom shelving system for a 50” TV (which I plan to likely get to support 3D). My focus is to get the movie side of the room sounding great for movies with music being slightly less important if that matters. Still, I wouldn’t be against including iPod/iPhone access, etc.

I do have wifi in the house, but most of the receivers I read about don’t really work well without a hard wired connection unless the router is sitting on top of the receiver, which will not be the case for me. Also, I do have existing Yamaha ceiling speakers installed and would like to use them as a zone 2 if possible for lighter background music instead of a banging system for movies. I don’t plan on using the existing ceiling speakers in the main system.

That said, I understand by reading this forum and dozens of reviews online that the process of putting this all together can quickly get overwhelming. Just reading reviews, it seems every manufacturer and every system has some really high praise from some reviewers and is absolutely torn to shreds by others. It can make you question every component you look at. So, I’ve decided to ask for some advice on here to ease my feelings of doubt. From what I gather, the key part is making sure whatever you choose works well as a team. Obviously, most of these components are not readily available to listen to individually, much less partnered together, so a bit of a leap of faith seems required. So, I’m here for some advice on where to go.

I don’t really know what receiver wattages versus speaker wattages affect a system. I do know that underpowering or overpowering speakers is very bad. I don’t know if the frequency response of the speakers will work or not with each other. I keep reading about "gaps" that will lessen the experience if they exist. I’m not sure what the difference between 4, 6, or 8 ohms is. Perhaps I’m just not capable of learning this stuff.

Regardless, I’ve started to research what type of system I’d like to put in place. For years I have read tremendous reviews about the Energy Take 5 speaker system (with and without the subwoofer). For the most part, reviews of the speakers are terrific but the recommendations include looking elsewhere for a more powerful subwoofer. Thus, I discovered the BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer. Again, this thing has unbelievable reviews on Amazon. It sounds like it would deliver exactly the kind of base that would make a home theater special.

I’m willing to budget about $1000-$1200 with some wiggle room for the sound system alone (receiver, speakers, subwoofer). I suspect that a 5.1 system will work just fine. So, after all my rambling above, my basic 3 questions are:

1. Any idea if the Energy speakers and the BIC subwoofer would be a good match based on their technical specs (aka cover those "gaps")?
2. If so, does anyone have a recommendation for a receiver they have used that would provide my needs/wants and provide proper powering to the Engery/BIC.
3. If not and I should really be looking in a different direction, throw me an idea on a completely different setup that you may have that is proven to work well together!

In the end, I just really want something that the family can escape to once or twice a week, throw in a DVD, sit back and have a private movie theater experience. I’m really not overly picky, but I am very afraid of making poor choices and spending lots of money on a system that won’t give us that.

Thanks all! Much appreciated for reading!
 
P

Pepito

Enthusiast
Hey icing_11,

I am starting to... With same kind of budget & rumbling in my head.

Do not buy a HTiB as with your $1500 budget in mind, going through a bunch of reviews (and countless audioholics pages) I boiled down to:
* Sub/Center/Front is where you want to put money to get results NOW
* You may want to upgrade some day... Your front become your satellites and... you spend on new higher end fronts (you go some step up on the ladder)
To get best bang for the buck:
* Subwoofer & Center speaker - MOST important
* Front speakers & AV Receiver - 2nd on list
* Surround speakers - you do not really care that much

My conclusions?
.Budget should be 1/4 in Receiver, 3/4 in speakers cause... Speakers do most of the sound and do not grow older as fast as receivers...
.For Subwoofer, looks like the BIC PL-200 is the guy @ $329 (Amazon)
.Center & Front speaker should be same brand for sound uniformity, I have no suggestion so far (I like Klipsch designs)
.Receiver, try to pick something recent for all the new connectivity stuff (internet radio bla bla...) so your kids don't call you grandpa
.Surround speakers... Like I said, who cares?

You can also look at that thread with same kind of question as yours with a bit of lower budget ($1,000)... The guy got an answer from someone who "should be listened to" (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/beginners-audiophytes/89225-first-timer-looking-advice-what-buy.html)

So, I am also interested in something a bit higher end than that past thread (50% more $$ please!!!) and would appreciate feedback from less newbies audioholics.

Wish you well!
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Regardless, I’ve started to research what type of system I’d like to put in place. For years I have read tremendous reviews about the Energy Take 5 speaker system (with and without the subwoofer). For the most part, reviews of the speakers are terrific but the recommendations include looking elsewhere for a more powerful subwoofer. Thus, I discovered the BIC PL-200 Acoustech Platinum Series Subwoofer. Again, this thing has unbelievable reviews on Amazon. It sounds like it would deliver exactly the kind of base that would make a home theater special.

I’m willing to budget about $1000-$1200 with some wiggle room for the sound system alone (receiver, speakers, subwoofer). I suspect that a 5.1 system will work just fine. So, after all my rambling above, my basic 3 questions are:

1. Any idea if the Energy speakers and the BIC subwoofer would be a good match based on their technical specs (aka cover those "gaps")?
2. If so, does anyone have a recommendation for a receiver they have used that would provide my needs/wants and provide proper powering to the Engery/BIC.
3. If not and I should really be looking in a different direction, throw me an idea on a completely different setup that you may have that is proven to work well together!

In the end, I just really want something that the family can escape to once or twice a week, throw in a DVD, sit back and have a private movie theater experience. I’m really not overly picky, but I am very afraid of making poor choices and spending lots of money on a system that won’t give us that.
Do not get caught up in a bunch of reading - that will spin you like a merry-go-round

If you are going to build an HT/Music system in a tree house or walk-in closet, then
the Energy could be a fine option.

Look at the HTD Level Three bookshelf and center - they are nice for the price
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Bookshelf-Speakers

HTD Level THREE Center Channel Speaker

Level Two as surrounds
HTD Level TWO Bookshelf Speakers

Yamaha 475 receiver - Yamaha does good
YAMAHA RX-V475 5.1-Channel Network AV Receiver | Accessories4less

As far as the BIC sub - that is your call
 
P

Pepito

Enthusiast
Do not get caught up in a bunch of reading - that will spin you like a merry-go-round

If you are going to build an HT/Music system in a tree house or walk-in closet, then
the Energy could be a fine option.
What about in my "huge" living room 18' large, 32' deep with 12' ceilings
My seating position is at 12'...

Will the Energy do the trick?

On the BIC, do you imply it is not a good choice for that budget? here are my references...

One external ref: Home Subwoofers Review 2014 | Powered Subwoofers | Best Home Theater Subwoofer - TopTenREVIEWS
One Audioholic ref (the compil...) http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/subwoofers/78068-audioholics-subwoofer-measurement-data-compilation-report-6.html
 
I

icing_11

Audiophyte
Thanks very much for your response. I've never heard of HTD before, most likely because they don't seem to have a presecce on Amazon where I had previously done most of my reading. I will say that there is actually a very nice 35 minute overview of home theater setup that helped explain a lot for a beginner like myself. It covered a lot of the terminology pieces lacking from my vocabulary, such as crossover points and how or if to change them after a calibration by Audessey is run. I'd certainly recommend it for others in my newbie shoes.

I'm still a creature of habit I suppose, in that I'd like to read reviews from current customers. Other than those posted on the HTD website (which are all obviously highly supportive), I just haven't found a lot online. I suppose this is again because they sell these directly and not through vendors like the before-mentioned Amazon. Those I did find seemed to highlight an issue they had with tweeters late last year, but in all cases the company's seemingly outstanding customer support (and a 30 day in-home trial) resolved the issues.

That said, may I ask if you (or anyone else on this forum) has these and your level of satisfaction?

Lastly, as far as the recommended receiver, would you generally upgrade to the 7.2 version just in case you had aspirations to add a second subwoofer at some point? I'm certainly one who would not be continually tinkering with the system I put in, but I suppose the easiest enhancement down the road would be to add a second subwoofer if I wanted to.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/98/84/t_sasaki_oyajini/folder/336907/img_336907_11039743_0?1268348840

That said, may I ask if you (or anyone else on this forum) has these and your level of satisfaction?

Lastly, as far as the recommended receiver, would you generally upgrade to the 7.2 version just in case you had aspirations to add a second subwoofer at some point? I'm certainly one who would not be continually tinkering with the system I put in, but I suppose the easiest enhancement down the road would be to add a second subwoofer if I wanted to.
I have owned both the Level Two and Three speakers - they are nice for
the price - and one of the better options with your budget.

The info is out there - just more of it at other forums

Depending on budget, you can buy a 7.1 or 7.2, if you desire. However,
receivers tend to upgrade quickly. You may want something to hold you
for now.

HTD uses a third party source - and does not tend to edit the reviews.

There are some other options out there - however, some what limited
for your budget.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYrdpkHQGo
 
I

icing_11

Audiophyte
Starting to measure out some dimensions, I've discovered that the depth of my shelving covers only perhaps 75% of the receiver depth, which leads to a more general question here. Is there any harm in placing a receiver on its side rather than flat? I actually had a discussion with someone at a Super Bowl party about this and he said he's done it that way for years as to "hide" it behind his TV. Thanks as always for comments.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
I really can not comment on placing a receiver on its side - however, what ever
you do - make sure it has enough room for ventilation/air.
 
ImcLoud

ImcLoud

Audioholic Ninja
With a $1200 budget, I would go..


HSU VTF2 for sub $600
avr DENON AVR-1513 5.1ch Home Theater Receiver 3D ready | Accessories4less $140
and then for speakers that will leave you around $450...
there are a lot of option HV:1's for your front stage HVL-1 Two-Way Loudspeaker | Wave Crest Audio
and then a simple pair of surrounds fluance has some for around $100 but any set of bookshelfs will work, you can get them from 25 and up,....

but there are many options, some great deals on pioneer series ones or the series 2 for a little more or the re-worked version from dennis... lots of options...
Pioneer SP-FS51-LR Pair Home Audio Speaker - Newegg.com
 
A

AVMike

Enthusiast
whatever you do I would certainly consider the advice you receive here. the folks here know their stuff and their suggestions are based on your budget not theirs. I have used their advice for speakers that fit my very tight budget and could not be happier as I too am a true novice in todays AV world. You came to the right place, they look out for you and your hard earned money.
 
tmurnin

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
Do not place a receiver on its side. First of all, receivers are heavy and it won't be stable on it's side since it's been designed to rest on its feet. Are you thinking of hiding this behind a tv? If so, remember that you will then need something to allow the remote to communicate with the receiver since it's no longer line-of-site. You can buy an RF remote and IR repeaters, but those aren't cheap considering your budget.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Those Energy speakers are going to be lost in anything larger than a broom closet or small bathroom, and a cheap Bic subwoofer in a 3500cuft room is going to sound nearly as impressive as a fart in the middle of a hurricane. Assuming that the room is fully inclosed then the Hsu Research VTF-2 MK4 subwoofer is suggested above is an excellent choice. The bare minimum that I suggest for a room that size is a Hsu Research Hybrid 3.1 Package along with the factory refurbished Denon AVR-1513 receiver suggested above. That'll take you a wee bit over your budget once you add shipping but will be worth the extra few dollars, and later when you have more funds you can add side surrounds. Frankly I wish you budget was a bit higher but this will get you started.

In answer to your question - no do not set the receiver on its side. Receivers are designed to use convection currents to pull air up through the chassis and out the top. Don't plan to set the speakers on bookshelves either, they are rear ported and need to reflect bass notes off the wall 12-24" behind them without a bunch shelves in the way. Instead invest in speaker stands.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
The Energy Take 5 probably isn't bad for the size, but you have to keep in mind it sacrifices performance for the sake of size. The PL-200 sub isn't bad for the price, but I think you can do better. I like ImcLoud suggestions of HVL-1s and an Hsu VTF2 sub. His suggestion for a receiver looks like it would be great for a tight budget too. If it were me on that budget I would go 2.1 for now, but for 5.1 I would just go with ImcLoud's ideas. That will blow away a Energy Take/BIC sub setup.
 
I

icing_11

Audiophyte
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your unbelievable assistance thus far. I’m definitely determined to take your advice, such as getting something more fitting for a bigger room than the Energy speakers and not considering placing a receiver on its side. In other news, I believe I have been successful in expanding my budget a bit, just need to wait for the tax return to do so though. That said, there have been three primary suggestions in this thread.

First, the HTD brand. A Level2 / Level3 mix was considered due to cost, but given the size of the room and comments from an HTD rep to try and not mix them, I am referencing an all Level 3 system below:
• HTD Level 3 Center – 199
• HTD Level 3 Bookshelfs (2 pair) – 2 x 299
• HTD Level 3 Subwoofer – 429
• Total = 1226
• Receiver, Shipping, Accessories & Taxes to be added.
• Note, Shipping costs per website seem to be only 45.

Second, the Hsu brand.
Their Hybrid 2 – 5.1 Package includes:
• 1 VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer
• 2 HB-1 MK2 Horn Bookshelf Speakers
• 1 HC-1 MK2 Horn Center Channel speaker
• Total = 1289
• Receiver, Shipping, Accessories & Taxes to be added.
• Shipping is noted at 200

Another suggested option:
• 1 VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer 529 plus 67 shipping
• 5 HVL-1 Two-Way Loudspeaker | Wave Crest Audio 555
• Total = 1084
• Receiver, Shipping, Accessories & Taxes to be added
• Note, currently a 15% off coupon as well for Wave Crest

So, on just a speaker level, does one of these systems stand out to you guys? Pricewise, they seem relatively in the same ballpark.

As for receivers, obviously I haven’t included one in the pricing above. The Denon is attractive given its price point, but is there anything at all in that one which would not produce to get the most out of the above speakers? It lacks some bells and whistles that others provide, but at this point I’m not sure I need those. I could see this as an option to start with though, with possible plans well down the road to expand to a 7.2 receiver with the added speakers, etc. Curious if there are any other options that would provide that 7.2 expandability that I should just bite the bullet on now though.

Btw tmunin, I am definitely in your neck of the woods.
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
Just switch the HTD Level Three sub, for the HSU VTF-2 subwoofer.

The brand speaker choice is up to you - all would be better than Energy.
 
its phillip

its phillip

Audioholic Ninja
I really liked the energy take classic system when I had it, but it definitely is ill suited for anything larger than a bedroom (imo). The HVL-1 + VTF-2 system would be my pick out of the three you've got listed so far.
 
tmurnin

tmurnin

Full Audioholic
One other option is the Intimus series from Aperion. You can get their Intimus 5B bookshelves for $375/pr., the 4C center for $161, and the 4B satellites as surrounds for $263, including free shipping both ways. That leaves you plenty of $$ for a great sub or two. If you're willing to start with a 3.1 channel system, you can get the Verus bookshelves for fronts and center, then add the Intimus satellites later as surrounds. I have the Verus series if you'd like to have a listen sometime.
 
ahblaza

ahblaza

Audioholic Field Marshall
Just switch the HTD Level Three sub, for the HSU VTF-2 subwoofer.

The brand speaker choice is up to you - all would be better than Energy.
This is the way to go, HTDs products are very attractive (speakers) and built very solidly, and they sound good and you can't beat the low shipping costs and free return shipping, like has been mentioned if you don't like them, send them back. You do know their subs are passive and have outboard amps? I can attest to the quality of their speakers but am not familiar with their subs. I have three of these in an LCR configuration in a 3.1 configuration, they will fill a large room quite effortlessly ARX A2rx-c
Arx A2rx-c center / LCR loudspeaker
I like all of the suggestions that's been thrown out here, I don't think you can wrong with any of them. You want something you can live with for a while, and if you were considering the Energy Take 5s, all of the above will definitely 100% be in another league. I like the subwoofer suggestions as well, but that's another category for me, I like to build my systems around the subs first :D This is what I would try and save up for.
POWER SOUND AUDIO — XV15 Home Audio Subwoofer
OK, let us know what you decide, good luck.
Cheers Jeff

PSSSSS.........HTD extended their annual sale till Feb 7th use code sale2014
 
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icing_11

Audiophyte
Checking back in here, one of you recommended that I read a fellow newbie’s thread for some extra information. Well, I did that and I’m looking at following in that person’s footsteps by getting super excited about this and going a bit overboard. What I mean is, I keep finding myself wanting to upgrade a little bit here and there, justifying it by committing to saving up a few more months before purchasing. (I’m not one to compile credit card debt, but instead have the cash in hand.) In doing so, I have completely blown out my self-imposed initial budget. However, my wife and I are feeling ok about planning for it. We are looking at this as a really nice feature to add to our new home…something that we can invite friends and family over and enjoy. That said, it will take some extra time to save for, but I really do feel it is an investment worth making. Again, I’d like to thank you all for your recommendations and answers. You have really motivated me to keep running on this project!!!

That said, here is our latest plan of attack:
Speakers
• One HTD Level 3 Center
• One Pair HTD Level 3 Tower Speakers (optional choice still includes HTD Level 3 Bookshelfs with Speaker Stands)
• One Pair HTD Level 3 Bookshelfs for Surrounds
• One VTF-2 MK4 Subwoofer

Receiver
• Yamaha RX-V673 7.2-Channel Network AV Receiver

55 inch Passive-3D HDTV
• 1st Choice: LG Electronics 55LA6200 55-Inch Cinema 3D 1080p 120Hz LED-LCD HDTV with Smart TV and Four Pairs of 3D Glasses
• 2nd Choice: Vizio M551d-A2R

3D BluRay Player
• Sony BDP-S5100

So, I’m definitely looking forward to your thoughts on this, whether you see anything “off” in particular. I understand that many posters feel that 3D is gimmicky, and I can respect that. My son enjoys it though, so I'm including it for him for sure. I also realize I have at least doubled my initial budget, but that can happen sometimes to us all. My biggest debate is whether or not to upgrade to the Towers over the Bookshelfs. Given that the cost difference is around $350 (including the speaker stands I would need for the Bookshelfs), I’m leaning toward them at this point.

I do have a question though. The receiver is said to be 7.2, but from comments I have seen the second subwoofer port is used only on the second zone. Meaning, I could not make this a 5.2 or 7.2 unless using a sub-splitter off the primary subwoofer receiver port. I don’t have plans to add a second subwoofer initially, but if I wanted to do so down the road, I’d have to take this approach. Do any of you use a sub-splitter to run two subwoofers from one port on the receiver? Is it acceptable to do so?

Possible “down the road” additions:
• Xbox or PS4
• 2nd subwoofer
• 2 additional rear surround Level 3 bookshelfs

Thanks!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Just go for bookshelf speakers over the towers. Towers will gain you hardly any advantage when you are using a good subwoofer with your system. Take the saved money and get a second sub. If you place the subs right, you can raise the crossover past 80 Hz and get monster mid and upper bass that towers wouldn't be capable of and not have to worry about localization.
As far as using a splitter on a subwoofer jack, using a splitter is no different than if you had a second subwoofer jack. There is no worries there.
 
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