Basement fin. system - OK for home theater?

[The_Captain]

Hello, Im new and glad to be here.
Im currenty considering finishing my basement with the Owens Corning basement finishing system. My plan is to bring the setup in the family room down to the basement with the exception or the TV. Ill go with a modest DLP projector and screen. Im concerned with this finishing system as it pertains to the theater space. Anyone out there have knowledge of or expierence with this product?
any advice or comment would be very helpful. Thanks

System makeup:
Toshiba 43" 4:3 RPTV Cinema Series(will stay in FR)
Marantz AV-550 preamp
Marantz MA-500 amps(5)
Sony 850DX? 200 disc DVD/CD changer
Pioneer DLV-909 LD/DVD
KEF - Q55(main) Q95(cen) Q15(surr)
NHT SW2Pi sub

 

[Karp]

That is a good question. I believe that it uses insulated fiberglass panels. It seems to me that it would be better than many stud/drywall setups as far as reflected sound goes.

I would consider this option myself, except that I prefer to do the work rather than hiring someone else and I think that you can only get it through an installer/contractor.

 

[The_Captain]

Yeah., Owens does it themselves. Lifetime, transferable warranty.
It actually seems to be a good product, expensive though.
Goes up in 2 weeks, all electricals, ceiling, no flooring.
Sales guy said it absorbs .95% of all noise. Panels are "soft" and only come in one color. Beige. Baseboards have a pop off panel with a channel behind for low voltage wiring. Completely moisture proof. I might just go for it.....?

 

[Yamaman]

Hey Captain,

Another advantage of this modular system is that if you have any basement issues such as water seepage, the panels can be easily removed and re-installed. Also, no mess, no drywall dust during installation.

Its a pretty clean look, but for me personally, I don't quite like the trim pieces that fit in between each panel- it's a bit to modular looking, if you get my meaning (i may be too picky). If you want to make built in cabinets, display cases and other accents, then you may need old fashioned framing and drywall for some areas. I would make a fairly detailed layout and wiring plan of your basement and then determine the limitations to this system.

Another concern I have is concerning the wiring. You can run A/V and network cabling above the ceiling panels since its essentially a suspended ceiling system, however, what do you when you want to run the cable down a perimeter wall as these panels are attached directly to the foundation wall (it may not be an issue at all- wires would just be squished between the panel and the foundation wall; same goes for electrical wiring i would guess)

And if you prefer to run cable yourself, then you will have some serious planning to do and have everthing you need because the window of opportunity will be very short given the fact that they can do a whole basement in 2 weeks.

I'm currently finishing my basement. I hired one main guy to do framing, drywall and plumbing. It's been about a month and all the drywall is installed- ready for tape and mudwork. And, although it would be nice to have everything finished in a couple weeks, I'm glad that I had enough time in between to run all my cabling among other things, otherwise, it would have become a full-time job

Look one Bob Vila's website, they have a video clip:

www.bobvila.com/BVTV/HomeAgain/Video-1314-02-0.html

Good luck!

 

[plhart]

From looking at the Owens Corning finishing system it appears that the highly flexible PVC membrane which forms the skin of the system might go a long way toward attenuating standing waves in the bass frequencies. That's the good part.

The probable negative here is that these walls appear to still be stiff enough to act as "acoustic mirrors" with first order axial reflections and also slap echos. Please refer to my review of John Daul's Acoustics 101. You might want to consider professionally done absorbent panels in the areas susceptible to axial reflections and slap echoes.

 

[The_Captain]

Thanks for the input gentlemen!?
I held a section of these panels and from what I can tell the fiberglass insulation "backing" which is about 2" thick is slightly compressed from maybe half its original thickness. This gives it the same give? as, say, stiff couch cushion. The outer membrane is an olefin fabric that is textured like a textured wallpaper. Im hoping this will keep the slap echoes and reflections to a minimum. I am also concerned with sound transmission to the first level with the suspended ceiling. Is there something I can do to minimize this problem? BTW, Great site. love it.

 

[Yamaman]

I am also concerned with sound transmission to the first level with the suspended ceiling. Is there something I can do to minimize this problem? BTW, Great site. love it.

I guess you could put fiberglass or wool insulation (specific for sound dampening) between all the joists prior to hanging the ceiling. Run tape (maybe that red tape used to seal poly sheets together for vapour barrier) across the joists to ensure the insulation does not fall down.

Not sure what else you could do...

 

[Jim007]

Owens Corning Basement Walls and Ceiling re: acoustics

In response to your question about the Owens Corning basement walls and acoustics, I thought you folks would find this info helpful. After extensive research about home theatre (most of it on this site), I recently chose the Owens Corning System to house my home theater in my basement. I was already planning a fairly high-end install after planning a drywall installation.

My drywall install included sound dampening insulation on the walls and ceilings. The home theatre install team was going to pre wire and then return to finish the install of sound and the projection system including professionally made fabric panels for additional sound absorption (In all, the system was pricey... fair enough. However, the install services were also pricey and the fabric panels were an add on... even more bucks.)

1 week prior to signing the install contract with home theatre guys, I ran into a problem with my drywall contractor. He was OK on allowing the home theatre company to "pre-wire," however, he indicated that his normal 90 day warranty covering his work would have to be taken away due to the home theatre guys pre wire. Even though most of the pre wire was low voltage, it did include some AC in the ceiling so the drywall guy wouldn't budge -- neither did I. The contractor told me to approach the home theater guys about warranty on their pre-wire. They were fine on all of the low voltage wire, but wouldn't consider coverage for their AC electrical since they were attaching an AC power conditioner that was warranteed by the manufacturer. I asked them for a copy of the warranty and suddenly they looked at me as if I was becoming annoying. They promised to fax it to me. I waited two days and no fax. What they should have remembered was the amount of money I was getting ready to spend with them and perhaps they would have been a bit more tolerant and service oriented.

A bit disillusioned about the whole process, I decided to put the project on hold to perhaps find a new drywall contractor who would provide a better warranty. Interestingly, three bids later, the prices were higher, their workmanship (from pix) seemed better, but they wouldn't provide more than 45 days warranty on their work and their per sq. foot price was 20 % higher than the previous contractors. One of the three candidates told me that providing warranties on basements was becoming more difficult due to lawyers and their "crazy" suits related to mold. The contractor dismissed mold as a problem on his installs, but wouldn't guarantee that mold wouldn't be a problem. He said the mold issue was all "hype" anyway. Little did he know, my daughter is allergic to mold and due to that fact, we have always run a dehumidifier in our basement. So, there I was, with more questions and new concerns about the entire project.

A few weeks passed and my wife and I talked about 86' ing the entire idea due to costs that would likely exceed our budget and likely not add the resale value to our home we expected.

Regarding mold, we decided to look at a "whole house" dehumidification system for our HVAC (the dehumidifier in the basement worked well, but we had to constantly empty it, at least twice a day, or it would fill-up and stop). So I was on the Internet and during a search re: mold problems I came across the Owens Corning Basement System. The website showed how the system prevented mold growth. I called for a free video and the customer rep asked if I wouldn't mind having the video delivered by a local sales person. I was told that if my wife and I could agree to a full product presentation, we would be offered some money saving opportunities. I realized we were in for a "sales pitch" (I worked in home sales for a few years after college), but the product seemed interesting and we agreed to an appointment.

The few hours we spent with the Owens Corning representative were really great. He was professional and very knowledgeable. I know, because I had done some research on mold due to our daughter's allergies. When I asked him a few questions, his responses showed me he had done his homework. After a few minutes, we all went to the basement and the OC guy quickly picked up on some of the chalk marks I had already made. We had told him we were looking to create a "family room"(frankly, we had really given up on the home theatre thing). By the marks I had previously made, he asked if we were planning to install surround sound. We told him our contractor and installer woes. He was empathetic and mentioned some similar issues that a few of his customers had experienced. He did a complete measure and design of our space which took about 20 minutes.

We went back upstairs for the presentation and he started by telling us that he believed he could not only do the basement, he could also make our home theatre dreams come true as well. Bottom line, he delivered. It was clear that our mold issues were no worry. He even provided us with an independent research document clearly showing the OC system as an effective mold preventative. He gave us the product specs on the 95% sound reduction on the walls and the 50% sound reduction in his proposed suspended ceiling. When I asked about the possibility of slap echo, he assured me the system would prevent it..

Here's the best part. The rep explained the ease with which I could install a projector from my suspended ceiling. He pointed me to an online source for a clamp and projector platform that mounts to a suspended ceiling with scissor mounts or what some folks call "helicopter" mounts. He showed me photos of the mount in use and explained the ease of running wiring, either high or low voltage all throughout the Owens Corning system. He suggested I hold off on a professional install of home theater and pointed me to a do it yourself book that covered installations similar to mine.

All in all, the Owens Corning walls and ceiling system seemed great and I expected it to be very expensive. The list price was more than I had budgeted for the remodel of the room. However, Owens Corning warranties their system for as long as my family lives in our home. If we sell the house, the same warranty transfers to the next owner. I expect the system and its warranty to add at least if not more value to our home’s value. To heck with drywall and the theatre guys warranty issues. Owens Corning offered a higher price, but overall, a better deal. We were offered some discounts to do business that night and since we had already saved some of the money, we signed up, shook hands and that was it.

The installation was very smooth. It started 4 weeks after we signed our contract and it was done in 9 business days. Because the system walls remove so easily, I did all of the home theatre wiring, including the install of the projector and all of the equipment myself. As an extra, surprise bonus, the electrician had added a secured outlet above the ceiling tile just to the left of the point of my projector install point. I discovered the plug when I lifted the tile to mount the projector platform plant. I was elated and then sad because I wanted to run the projector off of the AC power conditioner and supply I purchased for the entire AV system. I was pleased with the gesture but concerned the outlet had been tagged to one of the ceiling lights. So what did I find out? I called my OC rep and he just laughed and told me to look for a wire and plug coiled in the workroom behind the space OC had finished. I did and there was a card attached to the plug. It was from our rep. On the card " I think this should reach to your power supply. Just thinking ahead." Thanks for your business, Randy "The Basement Guy."

The job is all done and we’re very pleased. Here's my final assessment. The mold problem... there isn't one (the OC installer ran a clear line from our dehumidifier to a floor pump that drains our AC condensation -- so no more "dumping out the water), they also cut in two HVAC vents and added a return for a moderate add-on cost, The acoustics are great, no slap echo, very clear sound separation in all channels that "images" very nicely. The dehumidifier is in the unfinished workroom space with the washer, dryer and HVAC unit. None of the appliances can be heard when the door to the unfinished space is closed – so no outside noise when we watch movies. In addition, the AV system can be at quite a high volume downstairs and upstairs in the kitchen you can barely hear it. On the second floor, in our master bedroom, you hear nothing. When I come home late and want to enjoy a movie, there’s no worry about waking anyone up.

In all, the project came in under slightly under budget. The Owens Corning walls were more expensive, but their technology works and carries a lifetime warranty. Their customer service was great and our OC rep saved us $1500 by convincing me to do the home theatre installation myself. I also saved money by purchasing the same components for the home theatre online. After the snobby warranty experience with my local home theatre sales and installation store, I just couldn't do business with them.

So, that’s it. For us, the Owens Corning system is great. I have a friend who is far more an audiophile than myself and I recently had him over to see the completed project. Even he was impressed. Especially with the overall cost. He’d never admit it, but I’ll bet he was even a bit jealous.

Hope this info helps.

Jim

​

 

[mtrycrafts]

Jim, great, thanks for the update. With that whole house dehumidifier, you should be fine about the mold. While it can be overblown, some of it is real and people can get ill. If you don't have leaks into the basement from the outside ground, you should be fine.

 

[Yamaman]

Hey Jim, Your update was very informative.

Sounds like you now have a beautifully renovated basement/HT room. I was concerned about mold growth as well. For those who use traditional foam or fiberglass batting with a vapour barrier, it does actually facilitate mold growth because of moisture entrapment.

For those who can't afford the Owens Corning system:

I opted for traditional materials (metal framing, drywall, etc) because cost was a huge factor for me. To alleviate any moisture problems, I have at least a 1.5" air gap along all perimeter walls, followed by metal framing (not wood) with insulation in-between, vapour barrier, and finally 1/2" drywall. I have two unfinished rooms (furnace and storage) that also allows moisture to escape (evaporate) from the air gap. Although not 100% full proof, I believe this does work.

For flooring, I have a floating floor system- a maple laminate that uses a click system for seamless and tight integration (no glue, no staples, no mess). Even if you install a subfloor, you have issues due to wood 2x4 sleepers that still can soak up moisture. Carpetting also acts as a wick to draw out moisture from the contcrete slab. The other option would be to buy that DriCore subfloor that uses dimpled polypropylene base with fiberboard on top but at $6 (CDN) per 2 sq feet tile, it gets very expensive.

These are the methods I used to reduce the possibility of mold growth. I have a basement that, probably, is as dry as you can get, but every little ounce of prevention helps.

One catch to all this: to find professional, conscientous tradepeople who do quality work. I was lucky as I found someone through referral. I even have round corner beading throughout, even at the ceiling where the soffits (covering air ducts) are.

I also installed all the wiring (A/V, coax and CAT5e) and boy, you can save a lot of money if you do this yourself. I just tested out my sound system the other day- sounds great (at least to my ears)- no ground loops, no issues what so ever; I am one happy audioholic!

-Yama

 

[ravenceo]

Price

Hi. I'm about to build a home and I'm trying to decide if I should have the builder finish the basement for 24k or get the Owens Corning finishing system after the home is built. It boils down to money, does anyone know the average cost of the Owens Corning system?

 

[Yamaman]

Hi ravenceo,

24K? How big is your basement? The price doesn't seem too bad especially as builders tend to charge more. If you are planning to have an HT down there, are they going to run cables or can you do it yourself? It gets a bit tricky if you do it yourself because of coordination with other trades; you have to be careful not to miss the window of opportunity. The advantage to doing it yourself is that you can place all the A/V cabling exactly where you want it- with the builder, you will not get 100% assurance and chances are, they'll just get some electrician who thinks he knows what he's doing...yikes!).

My 1000 sq ft. basement cost me about 20K. That includes a bathroom (which can get pretty costly),complete wiring (speaker, multivideo, RG-6 coax and CAT5e) and my DLP projector.

-Yama

 

[Me2]

Floating Floor

Yama,

Can you tell us more about the flooring you used, how long for installation, where you bought it and the price? How does it compare to the Dri-Core?

What kind of ceiling did you install?

Thanks,

Ross.

 

[supatrupa]

I just got an estimate on about 500 square feet of basement finishing in
a brand new home. Has anyone heard of Champion Basement Finishing system?

The estimate is right at $20,000. That's $40 per square feet.
Similar to Owens Corning (lifetime warranty, etc.).

Does this sound too high?

 

[Yamaman]

Can you tell us more about the flooring you used, how long for installation, where you bought it and the price? How does it compare to the Dri-Core?

Hi Ross,

DriCore is only SUBFLOOR system than you can put carpet, or any wood floor on top (but not for ceramics as its too soft a base- you would need a cement scratch coat or cement board).

If I went this route (with Dri Core subfloor), it would have added significant cost to the project (athough it is a very good system for alleviating moisture problems in a not so dry basement, but my basement is very dry- relatively speaking of course). Also, since I was installing a bathroom, I would have had to pour addition cement in the bathroom area to make it flush with the level of the subfloor system. Too much work!

To reduce cost, but still have a floor system that could be easily installed and maintained, I just put 6mm polysheet on the cement floor as the vapour barrier, followed by that light, spongy foam underpad specific for laminate floors and then installed the laminate floor right on top- most laminate floor manufacturers have implemented a "click system" to their products that basically allows you to securely attach each piece together without the need for glue, nails or staples). An because its a floating floor system- meaning it is not anchored to the cement floor or the walls, it can "breath" and not be prone to changes in humidity that would otherwise wreak havoc on a solid wood floor system. I just bought the laminate floor and underpad at a local flooring store for $1.39 sq.ft (CDN). It took about 8 hrs in total to install 650 sq ft.

My ceiling is all drywall- smoothly painted. Gives a very clean and finished look. Yes, there may be an issue if I have get leaky pipes, but the chances are slim since its only a 3 yr old house.

just got an estimate on about 500 square feet of basement finishing in

Hi Supatupa,

For 500 sq ft. I'd say that sounds pricey, especially if you are talking US dollars. Even if that includes floor and elecricals. If you want some basis for comparison, I had my 1000 sq ft. basement professionally finished (Italian craftsmanship) that includes 20 pot lights and bathroom for 17K CDN. Yes, its not exactly comparing apples to apples, but at least it gives you some perspective. I had some cost savings by installing vapour barrier, insulation, A/V & Nework cabling and painting myself. That price does include all the materials I bought as well.

The warranty may more of a selling point than anything else because the chances of you having any major problems is unlikely, especially since this system your talking about is specifically engineered for basements anyways.

Yama