Audyssey MultEQ

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics, System Layout & Setup' started by gene, Dec 29, 2004.

  1. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold"><A href="http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/AudysseyMultEQ.php"><IMG style="WIDTH: 125px; HEIGHT: 82px" alt=[audyssey] hspace=10 src="http://www.audioholics.com/news/thumbs/audyssey_th.jpg" align=left border=0></A>Since the advent of discrete multi-channel audio reproduction, along with subwoofers and the requisite multiples of required satellite speaker systems that followed, the proper set-up of surround systems in consumer's homes has quickly become the primary stumbling block to achieving a theater experience "<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">as the director intended</I>". Of the world's 60,000 theaters only 3000 have been set-up properly so as to earn the coveted THX certification. </SPAN></STRONG></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">With the introduction of the new Audyssey MultEQ set-up and calibration room correction system, home theater sound for the rest of us can automatically bring us much closer than ever to "<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">as the director intended</I>" while ensuring “<I style="mso-bidi-font-style: normal">every seat is a good seat</I>” in the house.</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"></SPAN></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><I><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></I></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><I><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have never heard such a monumental improvement in the sound of an audio system as I heard with the Denon AVR-5805 with Audyssey’s MultEQ engaged.</SPAN></I></P>
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><I><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></I>&nbsp;</P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">
    <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">[Read the Report]</SPAN></P></SPAN>
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2014
    gene,
  2. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    Amazing not one comment on this article, meanwhile if this was about cables, this thread would be packed. WAke up folks! :confused:
    gene,
  3. Diablo Audioholic Intern

    Diablo
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    This sounds like a great piece of gear but the article doesn't mention the timeframe for availability or the price. Does anyone know?
  4. Brian JB Audioholic Intern

    Brian JB
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    Audyssey MultiEQ

    Interesting article. Questions/observations:

    1. Dynamic Frequency Allocation. What is the frequency range MultiEQ effects with a subwoofer, if any? Does MultiEQ equalize Subwoofers?
    2. What other systems, other than Klipsch, were used to demonstrate the capabilities of MultiEQ? Can you provide them for review/discussion?

    Thanks.
    Brian
  5. jordanny Enthusiast

    jordanny
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    Sounds incredible!

    I read the attached article with GREAT interest. I have wondered for some time when ( and how ) someone would solve the problem of mathematically averaged processing to eliminate standing and reflected soundwaves through the entire listening area. I'm a firm believer in signal processing and wave cancellation. Heck, I go back to Bob Carver's rudimentary attempts in the early 80's with his 'sonic hologram generator', which I have in my old Carver C4000 pre-amp. While I am very anxious to experience the Audyssey MultEQ in real-world conditions for myself, my enthusiasm is somewhat tempered by the fact that it is currently only available in VERY expensive products, such as the Denon. Plain and simple, while I LOVE the concept, and will CERTAINLY love the result, I just can't afford to spend $6000 on a receiver right now. :( Hopefully, the technology will filter down to mid-fi in the next few years and/or they will market it as a stand alone component. In the meantime, however, if you need a volunteer to help you TEST one... :D
  6. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    Currently Denon has implemented this technology in their new AVR-5805 flagship ($6000) and it will also likely show up in their AVR-4806.

    Yes is does equalize the subwoofers, independently infact! It will optimize the crossover setting, phase, splice between sub and center channel, 512 tap equalization for each sub in the system!

    Klipsch speakers were used as an example of what this system could do with a well known speaker with a signature sound. Genlec were also used. Bottom line, is the better the speaker, the less correction the system will have to do.
    gene,
  7. jaxvon Audioholic Ninja

    jaxvon
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    Reading that article made me want that new Denon reciever. Badly. But Gene, do think that the reciever has enough power reserves to drive all of the channels with decent speakers? Or would it be a better idea to use separate amps? Not that I'm going to be buying one in the near future, but if I were to come upon a lot of money...
  8. corentin Audiophyte

    corentin
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    this new system sounds terrific and makes me want the denon AVC-A1XV all the more now!It even sounds like it may actually outdo the very complex and high perfomance room equalization system found on the lexicon MC12 v4...Gene what do you think?
  9. Diablo Audioholic Intern

    Diablo
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    I would like to see this as a stand alone piece that could be used with seperates, then I would be a serious player for it, but if I had to buy a certain reciever to get it I would't be interested
  10. Rip Van Woofer Audioholic General

    Rip Van Woofer
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    Whew...heavy reading for the holidays (for us non-techies, anyway)! Maybe that's why the lag in response.

    Anyway...although the details are beyond me, it seems like a serious, scientific and cutting-edge approach to what really is the "final frontier" in audio: dealing successfully and systematically with the speaker/room interface. Beats the he** out of cables and expensive amps.

    I'm sure we can expect it to appear in expensive "flagship" units like the big Denon at first but eventually filter down to the mid/mass market. I'll be waiting! I too would be interested in a stand-alone unit to insert into an existing system.

    Ain't *real* science and technology grand?
  11. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    The new AVR-5805 has dual power xformers and over 132,000uF of power supply capacitance, THX Ultra2 certification, and a hefty 90+lbs so yes it should be able to power just about any speaker load in a 3,000 cu ft room with no problems. Don't be caught up with the misnomer of receivers not being able to deliver enough power. In today's multi sub, high efficient speaker set-ups this is no longer a real concern. This amp will have more juice than many separate budget amps, especially those card cage designs that use 7 identical mono block amps in one chassis. I know this from personal experience and beta testing. Don't worry I will do extensive bench tests on the AVR-5805 amp section when I get my review sample!

    Please read the following article regarding "all channels driven" nonsense at:
    The All Channels Driven Test Controversy

    Yes this Audyssey system is more complex and complete than the one currently found on the Lexicon piece. The Lexicon system only corrects for bass response while the Audyssey is full range, and uses FIR mulit taps. We have been researching this for quite awhile. Currently this is the most innovative and advanced room correction system in the industry. It is very promosing as it could set the next trend and evolution in home theater to come, especially for HTIB systems. Stay tuned...
    gene,
  12. mwc Audioholic Intern

    mwc
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    I don't know enough on the technical end to intelligently comment on MultEQ but I think its great that there are folks out there working to make HT better for all of us audio enthusiast.

    But I think "all of us" is the key phrase here. If this technology is only available in very expensive equipment, I don't think it is going to be of much interest to those of us who can't afford to run out and buy the latest flagship receiver every time a new EQ technology promises sonic bliss.

    An affordable stand alone unit to be used with existing equipment would get my attention as an audiophile and a consumer.
    mwc,
  13. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    This system will work its way into entry level receivers and HTIB solutions very soon. I agree most people wont fork over $6k for a flagship receiver, but about about $1k for a HTIB system that actually sounds decent? Finally a solution to properly integrate the subs and satellite speakers!
    gene,
  14. mwc Audioholic Intern

    mwc
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    Cool!

    But I just recently bought an AVR-3805 (as a pre/pro). I'm not exactly thrilled with the 3805's auto EQ so I'll hope for an affordable MultEQ stand alone unit . Do you think its likely?
    mwc,
  15. corentin Audiophyte

    corentin
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    :eek: Are you sure about the 132.000 uF Gene?!It seems incredibly high for a receiver, heck even for a dedicated multichannel amp!!If this is true, then it may definitely be able to compete with separates!At long last, a receiver which has a true good amp section!well on the paper at least...Does someone know the size of the toroidal transformer(s?) in that beast?
  16. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    I am pretty sure about the 132,000uF as per Denons specs ;)
    AVR 5805 Feature Sheet

    They are not using torroids despite what the data sheet says, they went back to dual Ecore xformers for space reasons.

    Don't forget this sucker has 10 amps. In most cases the user will be using only 7 of them for the primary home theater room. Plenty of power to spare. There is currently nothing on the market for $6k that can compete with this in terms of feature set, processing power, video switching, etc), separates or otherwise. I am pumped for this review if you can't tell ;)
    gene,
  17. noah katz Enthusiast

    noah katz
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  18. Brian JB Audioholic Intern

    Brian JB
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    Torroids & E-core xformers

    What are the sonic characteristics of these power supplies. It apperars Krell, Lexicon, Anthem, ATI & others, use Torroids. Is Denon comprimising sound quality, using E-core xformers, while doing too many things, like dual 5.1 systems, MultiEQ...?
  19. gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator

    gene
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    There is no dramatic difference between a toroidal transformer and a conventional transformer. Both work in same way. Basically the difference is just the mechanical form of the transformer.

    The main difference is that the traditional transformer and toroidal transformer are wound to a different form of transformer core. The traditonal tranformer use typically so called "E"-cores which are made of stacks of iron. Toroidal transformer used a toroidal transformer core (shape of "O"). a torrid core provides a closed magnetic circuit and doesn't loose any flux into free space as it would if the same core was in the shape of a rod. lost flux is lost energy, therefore, a torrid will provide higher inductance, tighter coupling , higher efficiency, and higher Q, and on and on. The whole concept is to physically concentrate the flux where it is needed. Also, because the flux is concentrated in the core, components that would normally be affected by being in the proximity of an inductor/transformer, can be mounted closer to a torrid, and a torrid will generally be smaller than an inductor or transformer using more conventional core shapes.

    In principle a perfect toroidal winding has no external magnetic field, and in practice toroidal transformers do have lower external fields, but transformer designers tend to design toroids to run closer to saturation, which increases the external field, largely eliminating the advantage.

    Toroids are popular in hi-fi amplifiers because they allows claims about low external field, and - much more important - because the weight of the wound toroidal transformer is lower than than equivalent conventional transformer.

    The "squashed" profile of the toroidal transformer also gives it more surface area per unit VA than a conventional transformer, so it dissipate more heat per unit temperature rise, which the designers exploit by running them at higher current density.

    In all practical purposes the toroid is more space efficient and can possibly generate less external fields than a typical E-core. We will have to see how well the 5805 analog designers managed this problem. Knowing Denon, its likely NOT an issue!
    gene,
  20. corentin Audiophyte

    corentin
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    well, i just went on the french denon website, and i saw a photo of the organs of the beast and you can clearly see that it s a toroidal transformer they have intalled...it even says 1200VA in the commentary.However there may be discrepancies between the AVR-5805(US model) and the AVC-A1XV(japanese+euro model) as it s already the case since the tuner is included in the american version only.
    [​IMG]

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