Audyssey Awful Compression

BriDown

BriDown

Audioholic Intern
Hey all, I have had my new system for about 2 months now and got all the speakers I wanted. My problem lies with Audyssey, always has. First, let me explain my room setup. I have roughly a 21' x 41' great room with 9' ceilings- half eat in kitchen and kitchen the other half family room. My speakers are wall mounted except for family room / kitchen cut off, there they hang from the ceiling. Side speakers are also wall mounted. I know this is not ideal. My wife did not want that many speaker stands in the room and the house was wired for it and has wall plates. So its the best I have. In the center of the living area we have a large L shaped leather couch with normal furniture around the room.

When I run Audyssey at all 6 pts using a tripod the results sound extremely compressed, really bad. If I try only 4 or 5 points also I get same results.I have tried all the suggested Audyssey Models for placement as well as placement suggestions from other sources. I really believe it has to do with my room size, ceilings, setup and acoustics. It is over compensating.

When I run Audyssey using only 3 pts, the results are different. Its actually close to sounding good. I say close because I seem to have lost a good bit of the high tones and crispness- read not bitterness. Again I tried 3 positions in different locations with tripod all with same results. Then the other day I completely covered the leather couch cushions and over front / back with blankets. I placed the Mic on the tripod with boom arm at ear level about 2 inches from the front of the back of the couch- BANG! It sounded perfect to my ears- well rounded, full, good lows and mids and most importantly the highs I had been missing.

I know Audyssey is supposed to be very sophisticated and everything I read states for best results run it as many points as possible/allowed. This doesn't work for me.

I guess my question is this- am I doing something wrong or any suggestions to try 6 pt Audyssey or should I leave well enough alone. I just want to make sure I am getting the best sound I can.

Thanks
Brian

Side Note as example- A friend of mine has a dedicated Theater Room and his system is incredible. We watched 'Wanted' and the semi opening seen where the assassin runs down the hall blowing papers around the surround and then he crashes through the window- that window seen sounded awesome. The glass breaking around the surround, the pitch of it and sparkle of the glass sounds was truly beautiful. I played the same thing on mine and the glass break was lost, faded and not pronounced. When I finally used the blankets and 3 pts, it was there- crisp, shattering... sounded like crystal. I can not believe how much settings can truly effect the outcome of sound.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Hey Brian,

I believe the fault lies with the room, rather than Audyssey. If you get a measurement mic and play with REW you'll soon see the difference a few inches can make. If your room is live, there can be dips and modes all over the place with resonance and cancellations from reflections. Audyssey tries to average the response in multiple locations and come up with the best compromise, but that compromise can only go so far. Anyway, that's probably why adding the blanket to your couch helped, and why measuring in fewer locations improved the sound in those limited areas. Also, when you say "compressed", are you talking about compressed dynamics or are you referring to the frequency response? (Please forgive the rudimentary question. I just want to make sure we're thinking of the same thing here.) Have you tried leaving Dynamic EQ enabled, but turning Dynamic Volume off on your receiver?

Can you describe the room a little more? Ceramic tile? Rug? Carpet? Curtains? If you clap your hands, do you hear obvious reverb?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, I kind of hate all room EQs I've ever heard, including RC from Audyssey, Anthem, Yamaha, Pioneer, Lexicon, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Outlaw, etc.

That is why I just use Audyssey BYPASS L/R + Dynamic EQ. So it bypasses Audyssey for my main speakers (especially in 2Ch music), but keeps Sub EQ and most importantly the Dynamic EQ.

Try it for yourself.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Solution: don't use Audessey. I use it for movies because it sounds pretty good. For music I bypass it.

Second part of the story: your actual placement, setup and room, etc... have to sound decent to you BEFORE you run Audessey. Audessey isn't intended to correct improper seating position, poorly placed speakers, a highly active or lopsided room.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Solution: don't use Audessey.
Or use it SELECTIVELY. :D

I love it when Audyssey says, "We don't recommend people using Audyssey Bypass L/R". :D

Whatever works, man.

If Audyssey works, then great. If not, then use Audyssey Bypass, but keep the Subwoofer EQ and Dynamic EQ if you want.
 
BriDown

BriDown

Audioholic Intern
Hey Rojo, thanks for response. What do you mean by REW and the room being Live? Compressed- a little hard to explain. The audio sounds compressed, squished and reduced. It does not have much volume or openness and it sounds like it is 'Forced Small.' The best way to try and describe is if you have ever downloaded a movie to your HDD. Then before you burn it, you reduce/compress the sound to minimize the size. The audio under those circumstances sound 'compressed.' I do leave Dynamic EQ on and turn on and off Dynamic Volume depending on material. I agree with you about room issues skewing Audyssey outcomes. I also think (probably ignorantly) covering the couch helped with the high tones because without blankets High Tones are reflected from the leather couch back to Mic so Audyssey naturally turned / tuned them down.

We have a very large bay window on the one side of the room. It does have a swooping curtain but is never closed. There are also sheers which are open during the day and closed at night. I have two doorways. One doorway is near the HT System going into an office and the other near rear speaker going to foyer. The family room is carpet and the kitchen is ceramic. When I clap my hands I do hear an echo / reverb.

Hey there Zieglj01. I have all Polk Audio- CSiA6 Center, RTiA3 Fronts, RTiA1 surrounds and dsw550 sub.

BoredSysAdmin- Thanks for input. I did follow those guidelines. I read all the Audyssey section and didn't find anything that helps or changes things for 6 pts. That is a great thread with a wealth of information. Too bad it is SO many pages... makes finding things harder.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Dynamic Volume does nothing but compress the sound. So if there is a high sound peak, you won't hear it since is dynamically compressed with Dynamic Volume. I always keep this off. But keep DEQ on always.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Hey Rojo, thanks for response. What do you mean by REW and the room being Live?
REW = Room EQ Wizard, a free but thorough acoustic analysis program. It has a rather steep learning curve, but AustinJerry's tutorial is a good place to start. You'll also need a measurement mic -- either a calibrated USB mic such as the UMIK-1 (simplest to use, but doesn't allow for time domain measurements); or a calibrated XLR mic like this Dayton EMM-6 + a phantom power supply + USB sound interface, although many choose to combine the phantom power supply and USB interface using a USB mixing board, panning the mic to the left and the line audio to the right, using the left for acoustic measurements and the right for loopback timing reference. There appear to be several people selling such measurement eqiupment on Home Theater Shack with ads over a year old -- people who bought stuff but left it sitting on a shelf forever, procrastinating due to REW's learning curve I guess. It might be worth your while to PM some of them and see if you can score a bargain.

None of this is necessary for you to use Audyssey successfully. But if you'd like to dip your feet into the acoustic measurements water and see and quantify what you are hearing, REW is a great way to do it.

Room being live, I meant lots of reflections keeping the sound alive long enough that they can cause problems.

Compressed- a little hard to explain. The audio sounds compressed, squished and reduced. It does not have much volume or openness and it sounds like it is 'Forced Small.' The best way to try and describe is if you have ever downloaded a movie to your HDD. Then before you burn it, you reduce/compress the sound to minimize the size. The audio under those circumstances sound 'compressed.' I do leave Dynamic EQ on and turn on and off Dynamic Volume depending on material. I agree with you about room issues skewing Audyssey outcomes. I also think (probably ignorantly) covering the couch helped with the high tones because without blankets High Tones are reflected from the leather couch back to Mic so Audyssey naturally turned / tuned them down.
I've noticed that my system volume is generally around 10dB lower with Dynamic Volume turned off, but it still sounds good if I turn it up 10dB. Also, Audyssey's setting of the subwoofer level seems very conservative to me. I always turn the subwoofer and dialog volumes up about 6 - 9dB immediately after running Audyssey setup -- salt to taste, of course. I always have to fix Audyssey's guesses at crossover frequencies as well. Audyssey is usually pretty great at flattening frequency responses, but it is the beginning of wisdom, not the end.

Anyway, it's all about the sound. If you're getting good sound with a blanket on the back of the couch and with measurements taken in only 3 locations, then do that, enjoy your music, and we won't judge. :)
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
BoredSysAdmin- Thanks for input. I did follow those guidelines. I read all the Audyssey section and didn't find anything that helps or changes things for 6 pts. That is a great thread with a wealth of information. Too bad it is SO many pages... makes finding things harder.
Most important bit is the attached Word Doc file - the setup guide - don't bother trying reading the whole thread
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
It's unfortunate that one has to be a member to download the attachments. I bet they are a great resource and would be better used by placing them somewhere in the Main Audyssey FAQ section.
Membership is free and takes only few minutes to set up. Trust me, that doc alone it's worth the "effort"
 
R

rnatalli

Audioholic Ninja
Audyssey like any other RC software isn't a silver bullet and some work better in some rooms than others; it's entirely possible Audyssey and your room simply don't agree. And it's entirely possible your room has too many issues for Audyssey to correct and is in need of acoustic treatments.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Membership is free and takes only few minutes to set up. Trust me, that doc alone it's worth the "effort"
I made the effort and it was definitely worth a read even for me. I can only imagine how good it would be for someone less familiar with the basics.
 
lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
Audyssey is only smoothing your peaks and valleys averaged over the number of measurement points. I suspect this may be a psycho-acoustic effect. I bet most folks would prefer Audyssey on in a properly run setup via a double blind test.
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
That is why I just use Audyssey BYPASS L/R + Dynamic EQ. So it bypasses Audyssey for my main speakers (especially in 2Ch music), but keeps Sub EQ and most importantly the Dynamic EQ.
Thanks for that. It is something I had not considered. Trying it now.
 
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