Anything better than Audyssey XT32 w Sub eq?

Discussion in 'Room Acoustics, System Layout & Setup' started by Darkwing_duck, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Darkwing_duck Audioholic

    Darkwing_duck
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    Hello guys :)

    I just bought the Denon X4000 as some of you may know and I was a little confused with the end results. I was expecting a spl vs freq graph showing me the before and after plots. Instead I got the option to turn audyssey on/off, a few other things, and a parametric freq eq that starts from 63 hz and all the way up.

    I own a pair of rti12s that I run full range and bi amped by the X4000. I was hoping I could use the Audyssey calibration to adjust the high end of the rti12s because I find to be a bit hot ( which is what I do with the Itunes equalizer )

    Since finding out that audyssey does not offer this level of customization, is there a calibration suite out there that does and takes what Audyssey does but does it better?
  2. Darkwing_duck Audioholic

    Darkwing_duck
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    ps: Anybody know why audyssey limits the graphic equalizer to 63 hz even though im running towers full range? I imagined it would've given me the a wider spectrum to adjust
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2013
  3. Darkwing_duck Audioholic

    Darkwing_duck
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    I found out that Audyssey Pro would be the next best thing and then I think Anthems ARC would be a step up.

    But i still dont know why audyssey limits the graphic equalizer to 63 hz even though im running towers full range without a sub

    Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?
  4. afterlife2 Audioholic Ninja

    afterlife2
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    Experiment manually and get it to your liking. Audy is not king.
  5. Darkwing_duck Audioholic

    Darkwing_duck
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    Afterlife, whos the girl in your picture?
  6. afterlife2 Audioholic Ninja

    afterlife2
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    That's one of my fav. singer/songwriters Fiona Apple. Did you get everything to your liking?
  7. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    Better is a bit subjective. Different RC systems do different things better or differently in a way that suits a particular user better. You really need to know what you want out of the RC in order to know which would be "better" for you.
  8. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    I believe you are confusing Audyssey Technology with Denon's manual eq. built into the AVR's feature suite. They are completely unrelated and yet, somewhat confusingly, Denon has chosen to put the "Graphic Eq" enabling toggle in the "Audyssey - Audyssey Flat - Graphic Eq - Off" cycle for Multi Eq XT32 options. When "Audyssey" or "Audyssey Flat" is engaged, Graphic Eq option (on previous screen :rolleyes:) is greyed out and therefore manual eq of individual frequency bands is not allowed or indeed applied to the signal.
    If you think about it, Audyssey processing runs its course and applies filters. It would defeat the algorithm/technology if one could go and change the filters after that. Changing iTunes eq after Audyssey runs its course is also defeating the technology. For Audyssey to do its thing correctly, disable the eq in iTunes when using Audyssey or Audyssey Flat in the Multi Eq XT32 toggle. If you feel the top end is emphasized, try setting DynamicEq on with Reference Level set to 0dB and use the "Audyssey" rather than "Audyssey Flat" setting of MultiEq XT32. If you still feel the need for high frequency attenuation, your room may be excessively reverberant and might benefit from acoustical panels.

    That is not an Audyssey Eq, rather it is Denon's implementation of a manual eq for a user who doesn't want to use the Audyssey applied eq.

    Audyssey Pro extends the XT32 measurement to 32 locations, but, requires a Kit $500 and license $150. Pro will not provide you the ability to affect frequencies below 63Hz since there is no relation. I cannot comment on the comparison to Anthem ARC. The only scientific way to make the comparison would be to run equivalent flavors of the correction on the same room and objectively measure the end result. To the best of my knowledge, this comparison has not been undertaken. If you want something superlative in creating and applying filters to the signal, look into MiniDSP, Behringer DCX2496, Antimode, or perhaps a software plugin for iTunes that can extend the eq octaves to give you the desired low frequency extension.
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  9. afterlife2 Audioholic Ninja

    afterlife2
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    ^^That is one useful post of post. I now know why Denon was not my choice. kidding, but some reason I've always stayed clear of Denon, instinct maybe. ;) Are you selling the 818?
  10. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    I believe you're mistaken (unless I'm mistaken :p) about Audyssey Pro. Last time I looked, I seem to remember that Audyssey pro, not only extends the measurement positions to 32, but also allows fully configurable PEQ curves with a user GUI somewhat like the miniDSP plugins. So with Pro, you can actually see the measurements, see what Audyssey has done on its own and then adjust from there using boost, cut, or curves. I believe it also allows you to customize the crossovers as well, in terms of the slopes.
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  11. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    Thanks man! The 818 had to be returned to A4L due to an issue that could not be resolved. I'm doing a comparo between the 818 and X4000 and will post in reader reviews section in next few days. More to come on that :).

    There are three target curve options but due to AVRs having insufficient memory banks in which to store multiple filter sets, "on the fly" switching of the target curve and associated filters is not possible, yet ;). MultEQ Pro | Audyssey , the comparison table shows that 3 PEQ targets are available for more flexible tuning options, but, Chris Kyriakakis's response to the question on A-B-ing Pro Cal confirms that as of yet, AVRs only save one target+filter.
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  12. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    After looking up on it, and reading the Pro Kit manual, I see that it does allow a custom target curve. That is pretty cool. But, only one target is saved to the AVRs memory. This thread over at HTS shows all the components of a Pro Kit and some screenshots of the software.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
  13. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    It sounds like a pro capable receiver is really the way to go if you want audyssey. My question is do you buy the kit and do it yourself, or trust someone not to screw up your system? I don't think many (or any IIRC) of the onkyo models are pro capable. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  14. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    You're mistaken, but not without good reason. It's not listed in the specs, but a handful of Onkyo receivers are now pro capable thanks to a firmware updates. The update for my receiver and the 5009 happened in late 2012 IIRC.

    If you already have a USB measurement mic, I would rather get a miniDSP 10X10HD. Then you would run Audyssey, set it to music or flat and then tweak each individual channel/sub with the miniDSP and REW. You still get the Audyssey benefits, but with fully customizable DSP, which can also be run as an auto cal thanks to REW.
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  15. agarwalro Audioholic Ninja

    agarwalro
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    I believe the suggested order is reverse. First use MiniDSP, etc. to iron out the big stuff, then run Audyssey to take care of the smaller stuff. As I understand it, this approach maximizes the efficacy of filter resolution and minimizes the danger of over processing the sound.
  16. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    YMMV, I would run XT32 first and fine tune with the thing I actually have full control over. Your own process may be different.
  17. panteragstk Audioholic Chief

    panteragstk
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    Interesting. Thanks. I've considered doing exactly that with a miniDSP, but haven't really looked into it for anything other than my subs.
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  18. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    MiniDSP makes these "Open DRC" room correction boxes that really get into it and are extremely powerful units. However, they look a touch difficult to learn if you've never done it before and are only two channels (on top of being more expensive than the regular units).

    However, the regular units are perfectly capable of EQ'ing speakers and subwoofers alike as long as you have REW and a measurement mic. It's pretty much as simple as Audyssey if you don't want to really do anything and just want the software to make the changes for you. I've done it both ways, where I tried to EQ the sub manually where you: measure, add a band, remeasure, tweak, measure, add a band, measure, etc. Then gone back and done the REW auto cal to see how close I was to it. It came out pretty close and after I adjusted some of the parameters of the auto cal I had it coming out almost exactly as I wanted it.
  19. mtbdudex Enthusiast

    mtbdudex
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    As stated but not discussed in this thread, you should consider acoustics as part of your overall strategy.

    Please share your current acoustic strategy, description and picture or layout is best.


    Via my iPhone 5s using Tapatalk

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