Another newbie with questions

J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
I purchased a "commercial" system last year consisting of:
Integra DTR 40.2
Revel Speakers
F12B Front L and R
M12B Rear L and R
C12B Center
B120B Subwoofer
Panasonic TCP50VT25 TV
Panasonic DMP-BDT300 Bluray player

Some reading has led me to question if I am getting the most out of my system.

I've started checking into a separate amp but really have no idea what I'm doing or what I should be looking for.

Also, by rear speakers are on the floor and I'd like to get some decent speaker stands, but again need some advice.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

TIA - JP
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Audiokarma folks not helping you out? :p Just messing with you. :D

What has you leaning towards a separate amp? Do you find your system sounding strained or muffled?

As for the rear speakers, I'd say that you're definitely not getting the most out of your system with those on the floor. :) Any number of stands would work fine for you. This article (among others) on setting up surround speakers in the Audioholics Tips & Tricks section might be useful. Revel recommends their Pedestal 22 stands, which I'm guessing are 22" high. That's for when you're using these as your front speakers and are trying to get the speaker cones at a certain height relative to your ears. For surround sound, you might find a different height works better (for example, to get them raised above the back of your couch).
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
I was at a "specialty" store and we got to talking about my system. He suggested that I might want to think about boosting my signal to the speakers. He wasn't selling me, just thought that from what I told him I might get a little more satisfaction out of it with more power. He left it at that. I started searching and got into A/AB and D amp discussions and "boom" my head exploded. I'm not that savvy. Just know that I like to listen to music and can't keep buying new, new, new......but can add a little here and there.

Read somewhere that the Revel stands aren't that good....

Audiokarma - might be the wrong forum, isn't it more for retro equipment or high end stuff? It seemed like it has alot of followers but my stuff must be a little new for most of the followers. Just trying to get some help, I know that are many knowledgeable folks out there that have a wealth of info and love to help the less "sophisticated".

Thanks for your reply - I'll keep searching..

Regards,

Jim P.
 
Adam

Adam

Audioholic Jedi
Audiokarma - might be the wrong forum, isn't it more for retro equipment or high end stuff?
I actually don't know much about them at all. I was just remarking that you hadn't come here first...just kidding around. :)

I own Sanus speaker stands and like them quite a bit. They don't make the ones that I own anymore, but the quality on mine (circa 2000) is very good.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I purchased a "commercial" system last year consisting of:
Integra DTR 40.2
Revel Speakers
F12B Front L and R
M12B Rear L and R
C12B Center
B120B Subwoofer
Panasonic TCP50VT25 TV
Panasonic DMP-BDT300 Bluray player

Some reading has led me to question if I am getting the most out of my system.

I've started checking into a separate amp but really have no idea what I'm doing or what I should be looking for.

Also, by rear speakers are on the floor and I'd like to get some decent speaker stands, but again need some advice.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

TIA - JP
First have you positioned your speakers as outlined in the manual?

As far as power that is difficult. The speakers make no mention of power requirements. It says nominal impedance is 6 ohms, but 3.7 ohms at 188 Hz with moderate phase angles.

Basically they are four ohm or less speakers, as there are two woofers in parallel below 575 Hz.

Sensitivity is 90.5 2.83 volts one meter, but because of the low impedance will have a higher power demand to produce the spec than you would think at first sight.

Now your receiver is 110 watts continuous into 8 ohms. They only quote a dynamic power of 220 watts into four ohms. That is a useless bogus spec.

So what is the impression. We have a tower speaker of average sensitivity, which must be regarded as a 4 ohm speaker, given the topology and admitted impedance low of 3.7 ohms at 188 Hz. They admit to moderate phase angles, which to me means negative phase angles of 15 to 25 degrees negative at the low impedance points.

This speaker is a three way with high order crossovers, which also tends to indicate a harder than average drive.

On balance I would say these speakers are probably not ones to power from a receiver.

If you have attended to other house keeping issues and things still seemed strained at higher volume levels then external amplification may well improve things. Power demands are higher than generally imagined.

Revel do not state a maximal power but advise that the speakers can be damaged by high power levels, like all speakers.

So I would estimate amps in the class of 250 watts continuous into 4 ohms would probably be the sweet spot for these speakers.

I don't know if I have helped you or not.
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
You have helped. Your knowledge is considerably above my head, but if I understand your analysis and PENG's subsequent agreement, then getting a little more power might be in order. For someone who is very unknowledgeable about the technical aspects, what would be your recommended next steps?

I gather from my recent readings that power amps in the A A/B classes are best, D less so and then B comes in as the worst. But other than that, I'm way outta my league.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
How much are you looking to spend on said amp? 5 channel right?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Your AVR has 7.2 preouts so you can easily add an external power amplifier. Some will suggest you get a 5 or 7 channel amp but I think a 3 or even 2 channel amp may satisfy you depending on your needs. You can either get a 5 channel amp now, or try a 2 or 3 channel amp first and go from there. If the 2 or 3 channel amp does not improve stereo sound quality then there is no point going down that route.

If you go with a 200 Watts into 8 ohms per channel amp, you will get more into 6 and 4 ohms. A good 200W amp should be able to output 300W or more into 4 ohms.
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
Do I need to be concerned with Class A vs A/B vs D? Or do I just get what I can afford?
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
A real class A will be out your price range I think. Class D are smaller and tend to be cheaper then a good class A/B, but some argue against their ague against their audio quality or don't like how they sound compared to A/B amps. Unless you're pretty discerning I think a class D wouldn't be terrible, but emotive is a good brand with a great rep.

Still haven't said your price range though.
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
Price is somewhat of an object. I might be willing to go to $2k or $2.5K but I'd really need to be able to hear the difference and justify it in my mind (and my wife's too!).

My current system is probably going to be my "last hurrah" and I want it to last and at the same time be "pretty to very good".

I stopped by my supplier and they were telling me Parasound and Rotel were what I'm probably looking for, but I didn't look or ask price. Still in my "procrastination" phase.
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Price is somewhat of an object. I might be willing to go to $2k or $2.5K but I'd really need to be able to hear the difference and justify it in my mind (and my wife's too!).

My current system is probably going to be my "last hurrah" and I want it to last and at the same time be "pretty to very good".

I stopped by my supplier and they were telling me Parasound and Rotel were what I'm probably looking for, but I didn't look or ask price. Still in my "procrastination" phase.
Whether or not you can hear a difference in amps depends on the quality of the amp, the class of the amp, the quality of your speakers, and most importantly you. Your own hearing and preferences will actually influence the other factors as well.

You have good speakers so it really depends on what you hear.

The emotiva would serve all of your needs and is a great amp for well under budget. You could also pick up a parasound, but they wouldn't be my first choice. Great amps, but a bit overpriced for what you get IMO. I wouldn't get one of rotels amps, unless its an RMB 1095. Can be had well under budget used, all of rotels new amps are class D and have had mixed reviews.

The ATI 2005 is a terrific amp, is within your budget, albeit at the top end and will serve you well for many many years. Plus it comes with a 7 year warranty.

ATI AT2005 Five Channel x 200 Watt Amplifier - B-Stock (120 V) - Amplifiers

One of these will really make your system sing and holds its own against much higher priced amps.

If I was spending money on an amp right now this would be my choice, scroll down and you'll see pictures.

Custom Built Amps - AB Systems Cinema Series Amplifiers | AVForums.com - UK Online - Page 13

Scroll down on this page for prices and specs. Whatever the prices say next to the model and divide by 2, then + shipping.

Custom Built Amps - AB Systems Cinema Series Amplifiers | AVForums.com - UK Online - Page 15

Food for thought.
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
Your time and explanation is GREATLY!! appreciated.

MUCH THANKS - Jp
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
If you're at all considering the AB International amps the website is here

AB International Amps

Don't be scared off from the sketchy look of the website, they're the OEM for a lot of high end companies and Bob, the owner/amp builder is a terrific guy to deal with. Shoot him an e-mail and he'll probably answer within a few hours. Very helpful, not trying to sell you his amps, only concerned with getting you what you need within your budget.

I have one of the professional series amps from him, an 800.2 that you can see pictured on his website. The thing is a beast. I bought it used and emailed some questions about the amp to Bob before I bought it. He was able to tell me when the amp was made and exactly when it was sold. Since it's a pro series its definitely loud for a home application, but I would only get rid of it for a cinema series amp.

The cinema series is like the 600.6 on the website, but with a more refined faceplate, upgraded internal components giving it better specs, no external adjustment knobs, RCA inputs instead of 1/4 inch inputs, detachable power cord, and a few other little features.

That being said, there are a lot of great amps out there. Check out audiogon.com for amps, lots of good deals over there on great amps.
 
J

jkpalmer

Audiophyte
OK. One more question. Let's say that I decide to get the Emotiva. How critical are the cables and are they like speaker cables or something different?
 
fuzz092888

fuzz092888

Audioholic Warlord
Cables? You mean the cables that connect the amp to the receiver?

Those would be RCA, since your receiver doesn't have XLR, but that doesn't really matter. RCA work just fine and most XLR pre-outs aren't fully balanced or really necessary anyways.

You're probably already familiar with RCA cables. Just go to monoprice.com and get some if you need them.

HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more!

A couple of the premium analog RCA cables should do the trick.
 
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