Analog (Vinyl) vs Digital Audio (CD, FLAC) Listening Event Comparison

[fuzz092888]

Fixed for you.

Hey hey hey....I resent the implication that I have no self control. I don't deny it............but I resent it all the same

 

[muhammad lal]

technologyexplores

Not to. I enjoyed the article, I was actually surprised at the results, I hope it does more genes. Anyway, I want to join the coast was not wrong, I want to start collecting vinyl if you can not imagine. It is an analog master tapes, such as Dolby-A will, the person you think you need in a digital recording studio, the reason most people hear them, the first question to come to mind is the fact that I will be right there 20 years ago. . However, no high-quality vinyl phonograph record playing again I can do to get through the miracle does not attract me.Great technology...........

 

[haraldo]

Gene, I really hope you continue this really good work that you're doing and don't let these trolls make even bumps on your road !

 

[3db]

Not to worry. 3db loves this article and thread. I bet he's got it memorized by now.

... not to mention that the bouquet of red looks kind of cool.

You don't see that every day.

If I remember correctly, post #7 states that .....

 

[3db]

I never left vinyl. I hated the early CDs and they did sound like crap compared to vinyl, especially, the AAD recordings. I even backed my vinyl away when I noticed that my old turntable just made the albums sounds soo bad. Now that I have a decent table, I'm out buying new and used vinyl. That vinyl still sounds soo good despite its limitations is truely remarkable.


Fuzz,

You may very well like vinyl. Follow this thread and you will see many choice of reference quality vinyl suggestions.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/78328-high-quality-sound-albums-3.html

 

[GO-NAD!]

Haters gonna hate

I took the article for what it was and found it pretty interesting. I've been curious about getting into vinyl, regardless of the differences, and this article helps give me a little extra nudge towards doing it.

Then get a whip and some stilettos and you're all set!

 

[Adam]

Then get a whip and some stilettos and you're all set!

Why do you think that I asked for those drunk pictures of Dave?

 

[Rickster71]

Why do you think that I asked for those drunk pictures of Dave?

I'm sure the World of Beer in FL has a personnel file on him. Including pictures.

 

[Hobbit]

I think this has been eluded to already, at this point the biggest question for me is not vinyl vs. CD, but why are they still making crappy recordings in this era? I'm not talking legacy recordings, but new material coming out.

I've bought albums (ahem, CDs) I never listen to because they are so badly recorded/produced. Conversely, I've bought some amazingly recorded albums (CDs). What's even odder is this phenomena doesn't even correspond to the artist. Big name/market artists are making crap recordings and some small market artist are making awesome recordings. The differences are night and day and there's really no excuse for this...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I think this has been eluded to already, at this point the biggest question for me is not vinyl vs. CD, but why are they still making crappy recordings in this era? I'm not talking legacy recordings, but new material coming out.

Crappy for what? Let's face it, when we're talking about crappy recordings we're almost exclusively talking about popular music, and high-end audio systems are not the target playback equipment for pop music, nor is serious listening the target listening environment. It's mobile devices like phones, tablets, and iTouches using earbuds, car audio, and boom boxes. When do a lot of people listen? When they're working out in the gym with buds in their ears. These producers (and I would guess most recording engineers) think people like us are will be less than 10% of the playback population, maybe much less. For the environments I've listed compression is seen as a positive thing, few notice the difference between real instruments and synthesized ones, most of the sound might be put together with MIDI, and the main task of the recording engineer is fixing dropped notes, off-key singing, and getting the beat to sound right. I wish I was being sarcastic, but I'm not. Classical still sounds awesome, jazz sounds awesome, even that so-called new age stuff sounds awesome - anything targeted for home audio systems - but pop music isn't.

You want to get sick? Here's a dandy quote from the marketing material for a dbx 266xs Compressor:

Give your studio more dynamic control with a dbx compressor, limiter, gate to create a more polished, professional sound. Having compression in your audio chain gives you the ability to smooth out uneven levels, add sustain to guitars and fatten up your drums. The 266xs makes it easy to bring vocals to the front of your mix - adding greater clarity and making them stand out from the surrounding instruments. To protect your expensive amps and speakers the PeakStop® limiter provides an absolute ceiling for peak excursions or large transients that could damage your equipment dbx is no novice when it comes to compressors, they invented them!​

One good thing about vinyl, it is never used for mobile audio or cars, and compression cuts playing time.

 

[Hobbit]

LOL! Irv. The one comment I deleted was saying the only place I listen to crappy recordings is in my car... for all the reasons you mention. Still, while I listen to a broad range of music, Jazz is mostly what I have on, and I can hear big differences in the recordings. Which leads me to the conclusion that most of the CD's I have could be much better within that format.

That compressor comment is sick. But of course, to most people the lyrics are the most important part. Furthermore in modern pop music solos from the instrumentalists have pretty much gone the way of vinyl. The single biggest reason I get told from people that they don't like Jazz is the lack of vocals.

I guess I'm not following your last comment about vinyl? Is vinyl bringing out something that isn't on the original recording? Or is it whoever is burning the CD applied compression to the recording process?

 

[panteragstk]

A bit late, but I'll still throw in my take. What that article tells me is that the recording is more important than the medium. Bad recordings sound bad, good recordings sound good as long as they aren't messed with in the mastering stage. I've never been one to argue in the format wars, but would love to make my own comparisons like this. Thanks for the article, also, don't feed the trolls.

 

[haraldo]

Just to add to this.....

In the 1970's, the audio world was looking for lower noise in music recording. Two systems were up for consideration. One was Dolby's, the other was a system from Richard S. Burwen's. Dolby achieved signal to noise ratio of around 76dB. Richard achieved 110dB!!!. The industry went with Dolby because it was more forgiving, due to lower compression and high frequency pre-emphasis. When digital recording arrived with 95dB s/n ratio, Richard said he missed the extra 15dB of his analog system.

So Richard S. Burwen already ages ago made an analog tape recorder with S/N ratio of 110dB

Rihard's biography is more than comprehensive: **** Burwen

Where does that leave us in the analog vs digital considerations?
Clearly for ages that's been analog systems that easily surpasses the dynamic range of redbook CD, they just never got into commercial products, eat your heart out guys

 

[Irvrobinson]

When digital recording arrived with 95dB s/n ratio, Richard said he missed the extra 15dB of his analog system.

So Richard S. Burwen already ages ago made an analog tape recorder with S/N ratio of 110dB

Rihard's biography is more than comprehensive: **** Burwen

Where does that leave us in the analog vs digital considerations?
Clearly for ages that's been analog systems that easily surpasses the dynamic range of redbook CD, they just never got into commercial products, eat your heart out guys

There are a lot of things I personally miss about analog recording (like, for example, very soft overload on transients that cover up less than perfect engineering), but for home playback there is nothing I miss about analog. With the advent of 24bit digital there is also nothing professional recording engineers miss about analog either, especially the cost.

My takeaway from Gene's test is not that LPs or analog is so great, but that we worry about specs way too much, and that the big picture of recording and production is more important beyond a certain level of precision, which appears to be 20-30db worse than Redbook CDs for most factors beyond frequency response.

 

[3db]

There are a lot of things I personally miss about analog recording (like, for example, very soft overload on transients that cover up less than perfect engineering), but for home playback there is nothing I miss about analog. With the advent of 24bit digital there is also nothing professional recording engineers miss about analog either, especially the cost.

My takeaway from Gene's test is not that LPs or analog is so great, but that we worry about specs way too much, and that the big picture of recording and production is more important beyond a certain level of precision, which appears to be 20-30db worse than Redbook CDs for most factors beyond frequency response.

I find it ironic that you continue to use specs to illustrate digitals superiority over vinyl every chance you get in this thread. I think you made your point quite clear from the onset Irv.Just let it go for the rest of us to enjoy.

 

[anamorphic96]

A release that I get back to over and over again when auditioning very high quality systems is: Leftism, by Leftfield
Leftism (album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The better the equipment, the better the songs here work and it's one of the rare ones that just seem to be totally grain free and free from this hash or artificial grit that seem to be there in so many releases.... this is stunning music and in my opinion a very high level mastering and good mix

When you play this on a rig with very high quality bass, you get away from the auditioning with bruises in your chest, like you gone a few rounds with Mike Tyson, but the best part.... if the rig is up to it, everything is superbly nice, clean and incredibly good music

I suggest this as a potential album that could be very interesting to compare vinyl to cd

I have been using this album for years as well. Picked up on it in a bar I used to go to. Inspection Check One is an amazing track to test with and my favorite on the album. On a great system the bass hits like a sledgehammer.

 

[Alex2507]

The Miles Davis vinyl is out of stock on Amazon but they also have a special edition for $55 that has "2 discs". What's going on here? What should I do? Help me 3db.

Seriously, after reading the comments from the musian about life like sax I must have this.
I just need to know the ins and outs of the special edition -vs- 180g.

Thanks, Harald for making me order that left thing.

Used vinyl for me was a great way to check out a bunch of music for not a lot of cash. I'd love to digitize a cleaned up version of all those albums and then burn them.

BTW, Rick got to hear a hum I discovered from my phono source. The RCA I use has two center conductors and an ungrounded shield. I could only hear the hum with no music playing and the volume cranked but grounding that shield took care of that. I know Rick is anti-vinyl and I didn't want to add to his list of 'why vinyl sucks'. As it was I doubt Marie noticed the hum from the money seat with Rolling in the Deep.

 

[Adam]

The Miles Davis vinyl is out of stock on Amazon but they also have a special edition for $55 that has "2 discs". What's going on here? What should I do? Help me 3db.

You can also check out the offerings from Acoustic Sounds. The link that I provided is to the 180g version, but they sell a few others. I don't know about the two-disc limited edition on Amazon. There was a blue vinyl two-disc limited edition from Europe, but that came out in 2010 and shouldn't be the same one being offered for pre-order. You should just get the 50th anniversary box set.

 

[haraldo]

Thanks, Harald for making me order that left thing.

My pleasure, hope you will enjoy it.... "Original" with Toni Halliday is a landmark

 

[3db]

The Miles Davis vinyl is out of stock on Amazon but they also have a special edition for $55 that has "2 discs". What's going on here? What should I do? Help me 3db.

I'm relieved its Haraldo that's making you buy this album. Based on that. I would definitely snag it!!!!! You have nothing lose. . BTW, let me know how it turns out. I'm not a huge jazz fan but I think I should dabble in it to broaden my taste in music.