Advice for upgrade Anthem MRX700

[Willy84]

Hello folks...

I'm in the process of contemplating an upgrade to my current Anthem MRX 700 A/V receiver and would greatly appreciate your insights and recommendations. My setup is currently a 5.2 system, with Paradigm Studio 100 v5s as my front speakers, a CC-690 v5 center, Paradigm Studio 20 v5 surrounds, and dual JL Audio Fathom F112 subwoofers positioned next to the towers. The MRX700 powers the center and surround speakers, while a Denon PMA 2000AE drives the front towers.

I aim to maximize the potential of all my speakers and enhance the overall quality of both my home theater and to some extent, my 2-channel music listening experience. As of now, 2-channel music, which constitutes about 10-15% of my usage, is played through a Cambridge DAC Magic Plus directly into the PMA 2000AE, bypassing the Anthem's ARC, which is quite beneficial in my untreated listening environment.

I'm considering moving to a unified amplification for all five speakers by adopting a preamp + amp solution. The AVM60 has caught my attention as it offers good value, somewhat modernizes my 4K HDMI capabilities, and should theoretically improve sound quality. I'm looking at pairing it with either an MCA525 or an Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2. This would mean selling the Denon PMA 2000AE.

Alternatively, I could opt for the MRX 740, spending slightly less while maintaining the current setup where the Denon powers the towers and the MRX 740 handles the rest. I've read that the MRX X40 series represents a significant improvement over previous models.

However, I have budget limits ($3000/3500). So the options are between a used AVM60 plus a used 5 channel amp, or the new/used 740 without the 5 channel amp. The second option would also be slightly cheaper.

Does anyone have experience with these options or any advice on which path I should take to achieve my goals? Your input would be invaluable to my decision-making process.

Thank you in advance for your help!

 

[PENG]

Alternatively, I could opt for the MRX 740, spending slightly less while maintaining the current setup where the Denon powers the towers and the MRX 740 handles the rest. I've read that the MRX X40 series represents a significant improvement over previous models.

However, I have budget limits ($3000/3500). So the options are between a used AVM60 plus a used 5 channel amp, or the new/used 740 without the 5 channel amp. The second option would also be slightly cheaper.

Does anyone have experience with these options or any advice on which path I should take to achieve my goals? Your input would be invaluable to my decision-making process.

Thank you in advance for your help!

Based on bench test results the MRX740 will be superior, versus the AVM60 though whether that means you can hear the difference could be a different story.

MRX740 + MCA325 may be all you need, as long as the Studio 20 V5 are not too far from you seats. If there are far, and you listen loud, then to avoid clipping you may need the 525. I think MCA325 is likely the better solution, the money saved can be used in things that matter more than a couple more dB or headroom for the surround speakers that you may never actually take advantage of.

To save even more, and perhaps get better overall audible sonic quality, you could consider the AVR-X3800H or the X4800H, that often goes on sale.

 

[Cos]

As a Paradigm owner, I will high suggest not going with the AVM60, it does not measure well and I would suggest looking at alternatives. As Peng answered while I was typing it out, the MRX740+MCA325 should serve you well.

My experience owning the Studio 100v5 and now the Persona 3Fs is that some amps (like the Parasound) create a slight tweeter buzz. I did not have that issue when I was using Anthem Amps, or my current ATI Class D Setup.

I would even suggest looking at the ATI AT500NC series of Class D amps, not pretty, but they have paired very well with my Personas (no tweeter buzz, dead silent and cool running). There are some good audio dealers on this site that carry the units. This is purely opinion on my part, but I would avoid Emotiva Amps as there has been several complaints of after warranty support.

If you go to US Audio Mart there are some ATI AT522nc 2 Channel for 1100 or 1175 with warranty which are incredible deals.

If you are very comfortable with ARC and with the latest firmware patch, the MRX 740 will serve you well, but as Peng has also suggested there are some great alternatives from Denon, Marantz or Yamaha.

If you are set on Anthem Gear, I have a very good Paradigm dealer I used to buy some of my Persona's and my AVM 70, happy to make a connection.

 

[Willy84]

Thank you all for your thoughtful suggestions and for taking the time to share your experiences. I genuinely appreciate the diverse perspectives and the options you've presented.

I must confess, however, that I have a strong inclination towards staying within the Anthem ecosystem, particularly due to my positive experiences with the ARC system. Before I embraced the MRX700, I had the opportunity to explore various models from Denon and Marantz, paired not only with my current Paradigm Studio 100 setup but also with a different set (AR Status S50+SC2+S20). Despite the quality those brands offered, it was the transition to the MRX700 that marked a significant turning point for me.

The difference wasn't immediately apparent at the switch between AVRs; it was the post-calibration experience that truly transformed my listening environment. What was once a cacophony of sounds evolved into a symphony of detailed audio landscapes. The ARC system played a pivotal role in this transformation, refining the sound to a level I had not experienced before.

While I'm open to exploring advancements in technology and improvements in audio equipment, the profound impact of Anthem's ARC system on my listening experience makes it challenging for me to consider moving away from Anthem. It's not just brand loyalty; it's about the tangible enhancement in audio quality that I've personally witnessed in my setup.

I acknowledge that the Denon and Marantz amplifiers I owned were from a different era, about 12-20 years ago. It's entirely possible that technology has advanced significantly since then, and these brands may now offer robust room correction systems as well.
I must admit, I haven't delved deeply into the latest offerings from the competition in this area. What's clear, however, is that my home environment greatly benefits from active acoustic correction. Given my significant positive experience with ARC and the substantial impact it has had on the sound quality in my listening space, I am naturally inclined towards sticking with Anthem. Yet, your discussion has prompted me to consider other brands and to explore what the market currently offers in terms of acoustic correction.

One aspect I forgot to mention, which has always felt somewhat lacking in my setup, is the presence of bass frequencies, despite having two JL Audio F112 subwoofers. My listening space is quite large, around 50 square meters, but the listening position is relatively close to the speakers and subs (about 2.5 meters away). The ARC system tends to significantly reduce the subwoofer levels, even down to -10dB, and that impactful "punch in the gut" feeling at normal listening volumes (-20dB) is almost never there unless I significantly raise the volume. Of course, as soon as I turn off ARC, even at -20dB, the furniture starts to shake... haha.

Given this, how important do you think the independent dual LFE channel system found in the 1140 series and AVM70 is, compared to the dual parallel system in the 740 series? Would there be real benefits for me, especially considering my need for more pronounced bass at regular listening volumes?

 

[PENG]

I acknowledge that the Denon and Marantz amplifiers I owned were from a different era, about 12-20 years ago. It's entirely possible that technology has advanced significantly since then, and these brands may now offer robust room correction systems as well.
I must admit, I haven't delved deeply into the latest offerings from the competition in this area. What's clear, however, is that my home environment greatly benefits from active acoustic correction. Given my significant positive experience with ARC and the substantial impact it has had on the sound quality in my listening space, I am naturally inclined towards sticking with Anthem. Yet, your discussion has prompted me to consider other brands and to explore what the market currently offers in terms of acoustic correction.

Audyssey now has the $20 MultEQ app, and the more expensive MultEQ X app, that offers arguable more flexibility for tweaking to one's preference. Also, if one is willing to pay for the Dirac Live Bass control license, one can dial in 2 subs or more, and can expect very accurate frequency response especially in the deep bass range easily. Audyssey, using the MultEQ X can do just as good too but will take more time and effort.

Regardless, if you like Anthem ARC Genesis effects on sound quality so much, then the MRX or AVM are the better choice for you.

One aspect I forgot to mention, which has always felt somewhat lacking in my setup, is the presence of bass frequencies, despite having two JL Audio F112 subwoofers. My listening space is quite large, around 50 square meters, but the listening position is relatively close to the speakers and subs (about 2.5 meters away). The ARC system tends to significantly reduce the subwoofer levels, even down to -10dB, and that impactful "punch in the gut" feeling at normal listening volumes (-20dB) is almost never there unless I significantly raise the volume. Of course, as soon as I turn off ARC, even at -20dB, the furniture starts to shake... haha.

With the latest firmware, deep bass does not seem to be an issue any more, but even if it still is, it isn't hard to get it back by adjusting the deep bass and room gain settings. So it isn't an issue, just might take a few hours to perfect it to your taste.

Given this, how important do you think the independent dual LFE channel system found in the 1140 series and AVM70 is, compared to the dual parallel system in the 740 series? Would there be real benefits for me, especially considering my need for more pronounced bass at regular listening volumes?

If your two JLA subs are more or less equal distance to you mmp, the MRX 740 should do fine, if not, then yes the 1140 and AVM70 should be able to do a better job.

If you are going for AVP+power amp(s), the AVM 70 is probably among the best value available right now, when it is on sale. It has been offering the roughly 15% discount sale periodically (about every 4 to 6 months) in the last 12 to 15 months or so, if you can wait, you probably should wait for such sales, to avoid paying full list price. You may be able to find a dealer or two that are willing to offer similar discounts on their own, then you don't have to wait for Anthem's. @Cos may be able to point you to such a dealer.[/QUOTE]

 

[arnoldnashwel]

Considering your inclination towards Anthem for its ARC system and the detailed feedback provided, it appears that exploring the latest Anthem models that support the independent dual LFE channel system would be a beneficial route. This approach could provide the enhanced audio quality and bass pres

 

[lovinthehd]

ARC not sure has evolved since your time but Audyssey and apps have. Dirac too. I don't see value in the Anthem brand but am not Canadian either. For a basic 5.1 system not sure what you're going for....there are ways to continue with audio as you have and still accommodate 4k for the tv.

 

[dolynick]

An MRX *40 can work well as a less expensive processor. I'm currently using a 540 for that as I didn't want to buy a 2nd AVM 70 for my other system.

A couple things to consider:

First, the MRX *40 series has no analog path. Everything is digitized and processed before going back to analog for output. If you're planning on running ARC on all output, this won't really matter as ARC requries digitization anyways. But if having a pure analog path option through the processor does matter to you, then the AVM 70 or 90 are your only options in the current Anthem lines.

Second, as other pointed out, only the AVM and MRX 1140 had true independent sub outputs. I agree with the others that commented that your specific set up with your two subs probably doesn't demand separate LFE control though.

Third, the AVM 70 and 90 do have higher end DACs in play. The MRX *40s use a step down within the same DAC family and sound quite good as well (to the point where I'm not sure people could reliably tell the difference). Still, it's an area where the MRX line is a step down from the AVMs.

Last, there are no balanced outputs on the MRX line. That's not the end of the world but I do like using them when possible if they're available.

For what it's worth, my opninion is that the MRX 540 8k sounds at least as good as the AVM 50v it replaced, and I'd say actually quite a bit better. I'm an owner, so I'm obviously subject to potential buyer's bias, but I believe there are audible gains in clarity as well as soundstaging with the (considerably) newer front end.

I wouldn't go for the AVM 60 route unless you get a real steal on the used market. I would much rather have HMI 2.1 via one of the current models. That and I'm not sure if the AVM 60 supports ARC Genesis (which is defintely nicer than the previous ARC versiosn) and the web based interface and ability to upload ARC settings directly over the network is so very much more convenient than the older serial/usb methods.

 

[Willy84]

Thank you all for your insightful comments.
You open my eyes on new tecnologies and to the possibilities offered by DIRAC-based systems. Your recommendations have certainly broadened my perspective and made me curious about exploring this technology further, especially given its reputation for advanced room correction capabilities.

Given my interest in staying within a similar performance and feature range as the Anthem MRX 740, I'd love to hear your suggestions on comparable models equipped with DIRAC. I'm looking for something that matches or exceeds the 740 in terms of sound quality, connectivity, and overall user experience, with a strong emphasis on room correction capabilities, considering my room's acoustics and the challenges I've described earlier, particularly with bass frequency management.

Could you recommend specific models that would be a good match for my requirements? I'm open to considering various brands and setups, as long as they offer a significant advantage in terms of sound correction and enhancement. Your expertise and experiences with DIRAC-equipped systems would be invaluable in guiding me towards a suitable alternative that might address some of the limitations I've encountered with my current setup.

Thank you once again for broadening my horizon and I look forward to your recommendations.

 

[PENG]

Thank you all for your insightful comments.
You open my eyes on new tecnologies and to the possibilities offered by DIRAC-based systems. Your recommendations have certainly broadened my perspective and made me curious about exploring this technology further, especially given its reputation for advanced room correction capabilities.

Given my interest in staying within a similar performance and feature range as the Anthem MRX 740, I'd love to hear your suggestions on comparable models equipped with DIRAC. I'm looking for something that matches or exceeds the 740 in terms of sound quality, connectivity, and overall user experience, with a strong emphasis on room correction capabilities, considering my room's acoustics and the challenges I've described earlier, particularly with bass frequency management.

Could you recommend specific models that would be a good match for my requirements? I'm open to considering various brands and setups, as long as they offer a significant advantage in terms of sound correction and enhancement. Your expertise and experiences with DIRAC-equipped systems would be invaluable in guiding me towards a suitable alternative that might address some of the limitations I've encountered with my current setup.

Thank you once again for broadening my horizon and I look forward to your recommendations.

First of all, ARC Genesis is quite good, especially now they have fixed the issue with deep bass, via the recent FW update. I won't use my graphs but another member who experience similar issue with his MRX 740, the one you seem interested in getting.

ARC Genesis results | Page 9 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

You can see his REW FR graphs, comparing before and after the update. Obviously the difference is not all because of the updated FW, as every time you run ARC G you will likely get different results, though the big difference in the deep bass range is most likely due to the bug fix.

He posted the above on Dec 20 2023, the one below was from June that would be with the FW before the latest update.

 

[PENG]

Given my interest in staying within a similar performance and feature range as the Anthem MRX 740, I'd love to hear your suggestions on comparable models equipped with DIRAC. I'm looking for something that matches or exceeds the 740 in terms of sound quality, connectivity, and overall user experience, with a strong emphasis on room correction capabilities, considering my room's acoustics and the challenges I've described earlier, particularly with bass frequency management.

Models from Denon would be from the AVR, or AVC in Europe, X3800H through A1H and from Marantz it would be from Cinema 50 through Cinema 30. All those models featured paid upgrade options to Dirac with Bass control and potential ART that is expected to be a game change in room correction.

Could you recommend specific models that would be a good match for my requirements? I'm open to considering various brands and setups, as long as they offer a significant advantage in terms of sound correction and enhancement. Your expertise and experiences with DIRAC-equipped systems would be invaluable in guiding me towards a suitable alternative that might address some of the limitations I've encountered with my current setup.

Again, D+M models seem to fit your requirements. In addition, they are capable of time alignment and even phase optimizing (if you upgrade to DLBC) up to 4 subwoofers. In terms of feature set, they exceed what Anthem's can do for sure. In terms of theoretical sound quality superiority, the Anthem MRX does have the advantage of having preamp/dac that could give you better SINAD, i.e. lower distortions + noise. To match or beat Anthem's performance on THD+N, you would have step up to the AVR-X6800H or the Cinema 30 as those apparently have the brand new ESS DAC IC, namely the ES9017, that has better specs than the ES9010K2M used in the MRX series.

Perceived sound quality based listening tests, i.e. goo by ears approach, is highly subjective, so at the end of the day, I would suggest you go with the MRX-1140, or the AVM 70 plus the power amp you need. If you are okay with going by specs and measurements, then I would suggest the AVR-X4800H, or the Cinema 40 if you are in Europe or the Far East such as Singapore, that's based on prices.

If feature set, future proofing is important to you, then you should compare the features between the MRX and the D+M's equivalent models, to see if you can find some tie breakers there. D+Ms can do more, but it means little to you if you don't need/use those features, e.g. 4 subs, more on screen info display, Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, Roon, Auro 3D, flexible preamp mode, equal rating for all power amp channels etc.

 

[Willy84]

@PENG

Thank you so much for your response. Your insights have been incredibly valuable in helping me navigate through the myriad of options available for my upgrade. Based on my current setup and needs, I've been giving a lot of thought to what you've shared.

I'm currently working with a 5.2 setup and might think about expanding to 5.2.4 down the line, but it's not a priority due to my room's layout. Right now, I'm focusing on getting the best 4K/8K video compatibility and improving my home theater's sound quality. I've noticed I'm not getting the most out of my speakers and subs, so that's where I want to make some changes.

Your point about DIRAC potentially offering more than Anthem's ARC has definitely given me something to think about. Given my budget, I'm leaning away from the higher-end Anthem models like the AVM70 or MRX1140 since they would stretch my finances too thin, especially if I need to add a 5-channel amp to the mix.

However, your suggestion to explore D+M options due to their more competitive pricing has been eye-opening. The Marantz Cinema 50, Cinema 40, and Denon X4800H, X6800H are all within reach, especially if I consider the added cost for DIRAC Live Multi. I'm not in a hurry and could wait for a good deal on one of these models, which would definitely upgrade my video platform and potentially improve the audio as well.

Yet, the question remains: will these changes bring the audio improvements I'm hoping for?

An AVM60 combined with a Rotel RMB1555 power amp, for example, remains an intriguing option, especially given the attractive prices on the used market. Many have advised against the AVM60, but the prospect of moving towards a preamp and power amp setup, which in my experience and opinion should offer benefits over even the best integrated receiver, remains compelling.

Really appreciate your insights on this, and I'm taking my time to make sure I choose the right setup for my needs and budget.

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yet, the question remains: will these changes bring the audio improvements I'm hoping for?

Some people like @PENG can get great sound from any AVR (Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, Anthem, Pioneer, Integra, Onkyo, Harman).

Some people are able to get great sound from only one brand.

 

[Willy84]

Some people like @PENG can get great sound from any AVR (Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, Anthem, Pioneer, Integra, Onkyo, Harman).

What's the secret?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What's the secret?

Having a lot of experience is probably the main thing, especially knowing which EQ curve you like the best.

For example, I think most people don’t like a FLAT curve, which makes the sound feel “anemic” or “clinical”.

Some audio experts believe that we shouldn’t mess with equalizing frequencies above 400Hz. So some people just EQ the bass/subwoofers and leave everything else (the speakers) above 400Hz alone.

Also experience with using different AVR.

 

[lovinthehd]

@PENG


Yet, the question remains: will these changes bring the audio improvements I'm hoping for?

An AVM60 combined with a Rotel RMB1555 power amp, for example, remains an intriguing option, especially given the attractive prices on the used market. Many have advised against the AVM60, but the prospect of moving towards a preamp and power amp setup, which in my experience and opinion should offer benefits over even the best integrated receiver, remains compelling.

Maximizing sound quality with your current speakers is more about their placement and room interaction, not particularly the electronics they're used with.

Another way to look at it is that a receiver plus pre-outs for amp flexibility also makes a lot of sense and is generally more economical. Just what benefits does a pre-pro/power amp bring particularly?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just what benefits does a pre-pro/power amp bring particularly?

Avoid getting shamed by TLS Guy about buying another “AVR”.

 

[Cos]

 

[Willy84]

Unfortunately, the placement of my speakers is quite constrained due to the room's layout, leaving me with less-than-ideal positions that negatively impact the low frequencies. Both of my front towers are cornered, with one next to a large column radiator, and the subs are also in corners, leading to significant bass resonance. The room's challenges, like a staircase on the left of the listening spot, an open fireplace, an open study room for extra reverberation, and a low ceiling of 2.45m, further complicate the situation.

Given these constraints, I rely heavily on active acoustic correction. Without it, the sound is overwhelming, with furniture vibrating. The current ARC correction makes it better, but I'm missing the punch that my setup should deliver, with the LFE channel only coming alive at reference volumes.

The ARC calibration results show an improvement, but it’s based on the calculated data. I haven’t had the chance to perform actual measurements to see the real response, which I’m planning to do to better understand how ARC is adjusting to my room’s acoustics.

I'm also considering the X4800H, which, paired with my PMA2000AE, would allow me to allocate the rest of my budget (€800) towards the complete DIRAC package. However, this setup would be more costly than just opting for the MRX740 (€2000 vs. €2600 for the X4800H+DIRAC). Despite my initial excitement about DIRAC, I've come across several users who haven't seen a significant advantage over Audyssey.

In this context, I'm trying to find the best way to improve bass engagement, maintaining/improving audio quality and update my system to 4K/8K. Any further insights or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[PENG]

Unfortunately, the placement of my speakers is quite constrained due to the room's layout, leaving me with less-than-ideal positions that negatively impact the low frequencies. Both of my front towers are cornered, with one next to a large column radiator, and the subs are also in corners, leading to significant bass resonance. The room's challenges, like a staircase on the left of the listening spot, an open fireplace, an open study room for extra reverberation, and a low ceiling of 2.45m, further complicate the situation.

Given these constraints, I rely heavily on active acoustic correction. Without it, the sound is overwhelming, with furniture vibrating. The current ARC correction makes it better, but I'm missing the punch that my setup should deliver, with the LFE channel only coming alive at reference volumes.

The ARC calibration results show an improvement, but it’s based on the calculated data. I haven’t had the chance to perform actual measurements to see the real response, which I’m planning to do to better understand how ARC is adjusting to my room’s acoustics.

I'm also considering the X4800H, which, paired with my PMA2000AE, would allow me to allocate the rest of my budget (€800) towards the complete DIRAC package. However, this setup would be more costly than just opting for the MRX740 (€2000 vs. €2600 for the X4800H+DIRAC). Despite my initial excitement about DIRAC, I've come across several users who haven't seen a significant advantage over Audyssey.

In this context, I'm trying to find the best way to improve bass engagement, maintaining/improving audio quality and update my system to 4K/8K. Any further insights or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Anthem, like other room correction systems, only show you as you said the frequency response based on their calculations. In my (and many others) experience, you need to use software such as REW and a mic such as the popular Umik-1 to find out what actually is happening. From what you are saying, it is quite likely that Anthem is not doing a good job on the deep bass area, that is below around 80 Hz, let alone a tilted response that most people seem to preferred.

The AVM60 is really dated, and have surprisingly mediocre measured performance, even worse than that Denon AVRs could deliver. Just read and compared the bench test results on ASR and you can see it for yourself. If you can get one at very good price, then I guess you can try one out, as long as it is returnable though.

If you believe your room acoustic is challenging, then I think the AVR (or AVC if you are in Europe) X4800H, or Marantz Cinema 40 will give you the upper hand as you then have to choice to purchase the excellent MultEQ X, or DLBC. Gene used to not impressed by Audyssey, but he, and even Matthew now both seem to like Audyssey a lot, when used with Mult EQ X.

Audyssey MultEQ-X Pro Calibration Results for Marantz AV 10 Processor (youtube.com)

I use ARC Genesis too, if you know how to tweak and have time to do it, you can get very good results too, but I do find Audyssey with the app and DLBC much more efficient and effective, especially DLBC.