acoustic treatments?

3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
I have recently found this site and I have found it to be very informative. I have been reading audio mags since I was in high school and consider myself to be an audiophile even though I am on a low budget. I acquired a set of Bose 601 series II's (let the bashing begin- lol) from my dad and rebuilt them a few years back. Personally I think they are the best Bose ever built even though I know there are better options out there from other manufacturers...but I'm on a low budget. My question is- Since the bose use direct/reflecting technology would they still benefit from the same acoustic room treatments like absorption panels on the walls? Or would this defeat the purpose of the reflecting technology?

Thanks for any help you can offer
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
I know there are better options out there from other manufacturers...but I'm on a low budget.^
That's no excuse!

My question is- Since the bose use direct/reflecting technology would they still benefit from the same acoustic room treatments like absorption panels on the walls? Or would this defeat the purpose of the reflecting technology?
There's no such thing as "direct/reflecting" technology. All speakers have reflections - these just overemphasize them as a parlor trick.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
The 601's are "onmi-polar" speakers which are designed to use of front wall (behind the speaker) reflections to produce a bigger soundstage. Here is what the speaker layout looks like,


You should use absorbers on front wall and first reflection points only if your room is highly reflective (bare hardwood floors, minimalistic decor/furniture, wall to wall glass doors, etc.) and you feel the treble sound is exaggerated. Since the 10-100Hz part of the sound has the most susceptibility to in-room FR errors cause by to Room Modes and speaker placement, your effort to improve the sound will be better served with 'bass traps'. Unfortunately, there is no cheap alternative here (maybe, DIY options) since the quality of material and design of traps greatly affect their quality to absorb low frequency energy.
 
3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
Thanks agarwalro. My room is fairly well furnished but I don't have much on the side or back walls. The highs seem to be fairly tame compared to other rooms I have had them in. In the past the highs were a bit harsh but now they seem to be about right. I was afraid that putting much on the back and side walls would reduce the sound stage. I will look into the diy bass traps.

I should clarify that when I say low budget I really mean no budget at the moment. I am basically looking to employ some of the techniques found on here to improve what I already have. As budget allows I plan to upgrade to speakers from Paradigm. I have heard several sets over the years and have always like the sound. But for now the old 601's will have to do. I have only the price of a couple of woofers and a couple of resistors for the crossover into them so for the money they would be hard to beat.
 
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O

oppman99

Senior Audioholic
Try GIK Acoustics. You can build your own as well. Lots if tutorials out there if you look. If I can do it, anybody can. Sorry for not posting links, but I'm using my iPad at the moment,
 
3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
Try GIK Acoustics. You can build your own as well. Lots if tutorials out there if you look. If I can do it, anybody can. Sorry for not posting links, but I'm using my iPad at the moment,
Thanks I'll check them out. I have looked at a couple designs but haven't settled on one yet. I'm going to look for the most cost effective approach first and go from there.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The 601's are "onmi-polar" speakers which are designed to use of front wall (behind the speaker) reflections to produce a bigger soundstage.
They're not really omnipolar... they're "random-polar" :(

I should clarify that when I say low budget I really mean no budget at the moment. I am basically looking to employ some of the techniques found on here to improve what I already have.
I hope I don't come across as rude, but I feel like, given what you're starting from, that anything you do won't be an improvement; it'll just be a change.

Some people DO benefit room treatments but in this case I just see it as pointless.
 
M

MidnightSensi2

Audioholic Chief
First off, don't let your speakers stop you from enjoying the music. :) Even if your working toward an upgrade, keep enjoying the tunes. :)

That said, I'd save up for another pair of speakers rather than modifiers at this point. Some nearfield monitors are probably your best bet while on a tight budget. This increases the direction sound magnitude versus reflected, since your sitting so close to the speakers, helping your acoustics until modifiers are affordable for you.

I'd hold out, save up for a nice pair that you can use for rears if upgrade in the future. Don't buy gear you'll toss, instead save up slowly and build a system. It will save you money in the long run.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
They're not really omnipolar... they're "random-polar" :(

I hope I don't come across as rude, but I feel like, given what you're starting from, that anything you do won't be an improvement; it'll just be a change.

Some people DO benefit room treatments but in this case I just see it as pointless.
Rude, no, opinionated, yes :).

The current generation of Bose crap and Bose bashing fad aside, there was a time when Amar Bose was to the audio industry what the likes of Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy are to this forum. I give the 601s credence only because they come from the hay day of Bose and not from today's marketing driven, snake oil peddling company that it has become.

First off, don't let your speakers stop you from enjoying the music. :) Even if your working toward an upgrade, keep enjoying the tunes. :)
Good point. We seem to get too caught up in good/bad, specs/calibration, etc. and forget the end goal. To enjoy the fruit of our toils.

Acoustic treatments or bass traps (aka. modifiers) will come in handy in the future system or very easily off loaded. Another set of speakers is always good, can't argue with that :D. It boils down to the OP's choice.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The current generation of Bose crap and Bose bashing fad aside, there was a time when Amar Bose was to the audio industry
Whether that's true or not, doesn't really matter.

The bose speakers being discussed here, are designed to have a roughly 1-to-9 direct to reverberant sound ratio.

The reason we add room treatments (or more often, "speaker treatments" is because many traditional box speakers sound their best without their poor off axis response contributing (a higher direct to reverberant ratio in the initial 15ms). Then we can get the natural frequency response of the speaker.

These bose speakers are too radicallly different from a conventional speaker, for a room treatment to do anything.
 
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3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
First off, don't let your speakers stop you from enjoying the music. :) Even if your working toward an upgrade, keep enjoying the tunes. :)

That said, I'd save up for another pair of speakers rather than modifiers at this point. Some nearfield monitors are probably your best bet while on a tight budget. This increases the direction sound magnitude versus reflected, since your sitting so close to the speakers, helping your acoustics until modifiers are affordable for you.

I'd hold out, save up for a nice pair that you can use for rears if upgrade in the future. Don't buy gear you'll toss, instead save up slowly and build a system. It will save you money in the long run.
Thank you. The music is the most important part of the equation to me. The idea of buying some smaller speakers that can eventually become rears is a great idea although I am mainly concerned with 2ch audio. Theater usage is secondary to me.
 
3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
Rude, no, opinionated, yes :).

The current generation of Bose crap and Bose bashing fad aside, there was a time when Amar Bose was to the audio industry what the likes of Jim Salk and Dennis Murphy are to this forum. I give the 601s credence only because they come from the hay day of Bose and not from today's marketing driven, snake oil peddling company that it has become.

Good point. We seem to get too caught up in good/bad, specs/calibration, etc. and forget the end goal. To enjoy the fruit of our toils.

Acoustic treatments or bass traps (aka. modifiers) will come in handy in the future system or very easily off loaded. Another set of speakers is always good, can't argue with that :D. It boils down to the OP's choice.
I agree that there was a time when Bose was building a good innovative product and IMO the 601 series II's were the pinnacle of that era. Sadly that era is gone for good. I do agree everything they have produced since has been garbage at best. When I first heard the acoustimass (cube) system I almost puked they sounded so bad.

I do agree there are many options out there that would be a huge improvement over the bose and I will upgrade in the future. In the meantime I'll keep auditioning whats on the market and make a decision as funding allows.

I think I will go for the DIY bass trap for now and save my money for the speaker upgrade instead of trying to improve what isn't there in the first place. My 601's are a huge improvement over what I find in most homes so for now they make me happy even if they aren't the best.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
The bose speakers being discussed here, are designed to have a roughly 1-to-9 direct to reverberant sound ratio.
I doubt they will image well.

I was struggling to find any good pics let alone specs. Oaktreevintage has some info but not much. Where did you find the ratio?
 
3

300exoh

Audioholic Intern
Personally I think they image quite well but ONLY when properly positioned which can be difficult to say the least. I checked out that Oak Tree Vintage and they want $899 for a pair of 601's...OMG! Mine were only around $600 new back in '82.
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
Personally I think they image quite well but ONLY when properly positioned which can be difficult to say the least.
I believe you and agree that it is possible to make the 601s sound good with some effort. But, not in comparison with a conventional speaker (direct radiating type) of quality when placed and calibrated with equal care.

I checked out that Oak Tree Vintage and they want $899 for a pair of 601's...OMG! Mine were only around $600 new back in '82.
Wiki for Ford Model T says this about the price,
PriceThe standard 4-seat open tourer of 1909 cost $850 (equivalent to $20,709 today), when competing cars often cost $2,000–$3,000 (equivalent to $48,726–$73,089 today); in 1913, the price dropped to $550 (equivalent to $12,181 today), and $440 in 1915 (equivalent to $9,521 today). Sales were 69,762 in 1911; 170,211 in 1912; 202,667 in 1913; 308,162 in 1914; and 501,462 in 1915. By the 1920s, the price had fallen to $290 (equivalent to $3,289 today) because of increasing efficiencies of assembly line technique and volume.
'Vintage' status makes things more expensive, 'Collector' status even more so. Maybe in 25 years, the 601s will be $5K since they will be vintage and a 'find' for collectors :D.
 
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