Accessories4less

[Tool34]

Hey guys-

I'm getting a new receiver soon. i just do not know which brand to go with. My budget is $1000 for a receiver. A couple of things I want in that receiver, DTS:X, and a high quality DAC. I'm leaning towards the Marantz SR-7010 or SR-6011. I really like the Denon models from the aesthetics perspective, but would like some guidance. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Chad

 

[j_garcia]

What speakers? Marantz or Denon will both be good choices.

 

[Tool34]

I'm looking to get ELAC Uni-Fi Ubi-5 system

 

[Steve M]

are the Accessories for less factory refurbished units ? seems to be some sweet deals on there
Refurb was ok for my old carver , its still going after all these years

 

[KEW]

Hey guys-

I'm getting a new receiver soon. i just do not know which brand to go with. My budget is $1000 for a receiver. A couple of things I want in that receiver, DTS:X, and a high quality DAC. I'm leaning towards the Marantz SR-7010 or SR-6011. I really like the Denon models from the aesthetics perspective, but would like some guidance. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Chad

Denon and Marantz are essentially the same company and I bet they have more in common than they would like you to believe.
My impression is that Marantz charges a higher price for an equivalent product, so if you prefer the look of the Denon, it is a win-win for you!

 

[lovinthehd]

Many of the units on A4L are factory refurbs but they also sell new units (closeouts) so your warranty changes accordingly.

 

[Tool34]

Thanks for the reply guys. I know that Onkyo and Pioneer are basically the same, but can you give specific details on why you think Denon and Marantz are the same? From what I have researched, Marantz seems to do better on the music side. They also claim to use higher quality build materials. Now, that is from a different unbiased forum, but all the info I can get, the better. Thanks again guys!

Chad

 

[Diesel57]

They both will serve you well while both share common ground with features & quality, go with the one that's less in price that meets your needs...Cheers

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks for the reply guys. I know that Onkyo and Pioneer are basically the same, but can you give specific details on why you think Denon and Marantz are the same? From what I have researched, Marantz seems to do better on the music side. They also claim to use higher quality build materials. Now, that is from a different unbiased forum, but all the info I can get, the better. Thanks again guys!

Chad

Because they're owned by the same company? D+M Group and they've (D+M) been owned by a couple different groups of investors already, too. There've been some photo comparisons of innards between sister models that are pretty much identical, too. Supposedly the proprietary Marantz MDAM circuitry is better "for music" but they're both steeped in audiophile quality (and Denon's been around longer). Probably a good bit of marketing involved.

 

[Diesel57]

Just adding to lovinthehd's post, Imao, I don't believe that there's a noticeable difference in the sound between the two...Enjoy

 

[Tool34]

Thanks loveinthehd. Really appreciate it. If i can save a few bucks on the receiver, great. Only issue is, with the ELAC speakers, they are rated at 3.4 ohms. Speakers that low of an impedance need power. Thanks again.

Chad

 

[KEW]

Economically, it makes too much sense to not require two different designs for doing the exact same thing.
For Denon vs Marantz, they want their AVR's to compete with other companies, not each other. Consequently, they market the Denon as being more HT/value oriented and the Marantz as being more audio/exclusive oriented. It is really pretty outrageous that Marantz uses "SR" as in SR-7010 on what is, at this point, so far removed from a stereo receiver!
HDAM is marketed as being exclusive to the Marantz line, but it doesn't seem to add much cost (there was not an unusual increase when it was introduced in the SR5000 line). If it is as reliable and sounds better, their engineers would not be doing their job if they did not use the same tech in the Denon. Economics of scale drives these decisions and one major advantage of D&M having the same owner is to exploit these economies of scale everywhere they can!

As I said at the top of this post:
Economically, it makes too much sense to not require two different designs for doing the exact same thing.

Here is an even better example of where the SR6001 and SR7001 have the exact same amplifier section even though the SR7001 was more expensive. From a marketing standpoint, Marantz wanted buyers to have as many reasons as possible to pay the extra for the 7001 so they reduced their published specification on the 6001 by 10 Watts per channel so buyers would assume the 7001 was better across the board!
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/european-specs-and-german-proficiency.71229/#post-780811
As I mentioned in the linked post, it was frustrating that a receiver as mainstream as the SR6001 had no lab tests (in English). I am willing to bet that Marantz made it policy not to send out any test units for the 6001 series.

 

[KEW]

You have budgeted $450 for speakers and $1000 for an AVR. We really prefer to see the opposite because there will not be much difference in sound between a $500 AVR and a $1000 AVR compared to the difference between $500 and $1000 speakers.

For example, this would put you in an entirely different league of Sound Quality if you stretch your budget to $1530 plus shipping costs:

$379 for refurbished Denon AVR-X2200W
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/denavrx2200w/denon-avr-x2200w-7.2-ch-x-95-watts-networking-a/v-receiver/1.html

$1150 for Philharmonic Audio Philharmonitors:
http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html

The UB5 is not a bad speaker for $450. But if you factor in that the UB5 pushes you into higher priced amplification (3.4 Ohms is unusually demanding for a speaker you would expect most people to casually pair with a receiver), I cannot recommend it!

 

[Tool34]

Thanks for the info. That's kinda what other forums have said about the Marantz brand.

Just to clarify, I am getting the whole 5.1 system in the Uni-Fi series, not just the bookshelf speakers. Again, thanks for the info. Much appreciated

Chad

 

[slipperybidness]

Economically, it makes too much sense to not require two different designs for doing the exact same thing.
For Denon vs Marantz, they want their AVR's to compete with other companies, not each other. Consequently, they market the Denon as being more HT/value oriented and the Marantz as being more audio/exclusive oriented. It is really pretty outrageous that Marantz uses "SR" as in SR-7010 on what is, at this point, so far removed from a stereo receiver!
HDAM is marketed as being exclusive to the Marantz line, but it doesn't seem to add much cost (there was not an unusual increase when it was introduced in the SR5000 line). If it is as reliable and sounds better, their engineers would not be doing their job if they did not use the same tech in the Denon. Economics of scale drives these decisions and one major advantage of D&M having the same owner is to exploit these economies of scale everywhere they can!

As I said at the top of this post:
Economically, it makes too much sense to not require two different designs for doing the exact same thing.

Here is an even better example of where the SR6001 and SR7001 have the exact same amplifier section even though the SR7001 was more expensive. From a marketing standpoint, Marantz wanted buyers to have as many reasons as possible to pay the extra for the 7001 so they reduced their published specification on the 6001 by 10 Watts per channel so buyers would assume the 7001 was better across the board!
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/european-specs-and-german-proficiency.71229/#post-780811
As I mentioned in the linked post, it was frustrating that a receiver as mainstream as the SR6001 had no lab tests (in English). I am willing to bet that Marantz made it policy not to send out any test units for the 6001 series.

Agreed!

This actually happens very often in manufacturing!

Most people just don't realize this, unless you have worked in manufacturing. It is absolutely cheaper, easier, and easier to produce 1 quality product continuously, rather than to retool and reconfigure from the premium product back to the economy product.

So, when possible, you simply manufacture the premium product, only, then make a slight modification to the product, or simply de-rate the product for the economy model. For example--Only manufacture 1 type of computer board, and have a set of jumpers that configures it as a premium board or an economy board. Savvy consumers have recognized these types of practices in the past, purchased the economy model to save a buck, then done a simple mod to unlock the premium model config.

A lot of time, $, and tool downtime is involved when you swap production on a line. And, you invite mistakes when you take down a production line that is humming right along.

 

[KEW]

Just to clarify, I am getting the whole 5.1 system in the Uni-Fi series, not just the bookshelf speakers. Again, thanks for the info. Much appreciated

Chad

In that case, I would like to encourage you to start out buying a pair of the UB5's and a pair of Sony CS5's from Amazon (who has 30 day return policy). We all have different preferences, but to my ear, the Sony is a better speaker despite being half the price of the UB5! Currently Andrew Jones is the big fad and the pro reviews are hyping the heck out of his designs.
I'm not saying his designs are bad - when he did the Pioneers, they took the prize for best speaker in their price class, IMHO. Sony (a direct BestBuy competitor to Pioneer) responded by putting some design talent in the Core Series which (aside from the Philharmonic AA's which add exceptional bass) is the best ~$200 speaker, to my ear. I'm not a fan of Sony, their products are generally overpriced, but the CS5 is a great exception!
Understand that I don't want you to trust me and just buy the Sony...your preferences may be different from mine. I am simply suggesting you do a no-risk listening comparison and see what you think.

If you are interested in doing this comparison and want, I can dig out my notes and tell you some specifics (sounds and songs) that led me to my conclusions about the Sony vs the Elac.

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS5-3-Driver-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00O8YLMVA/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1482335712&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+CS5

https://www.amazon.com/ELAC-Uni-fi-Bookshelf-Speaker-Black/dp/B01CRYWVG2/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1482335765&sr=1-1&keywords=elac+ub5

PS - The UB5 is not a bad $500 speaker, but the Sony is a great $200 speaker (IMHO, YMMV). The Philharmonic AA's are an even better deal than the Sony's (although that is debatable when the Sony is at $169), but I cannot ask you to risk the cost of return shipping.

For anyone not using a sub, the AA's would be a no-brainer (IMHO) and I would suggest they compare the Sony vs UB5. If they prefer the Sony, return them and get the AA's which sound similar to the Sony in the mids and highs, but add exceptionally clean and deep bass. However, since you will have a sub, that deep bass is not so important and the AA's are a larger and heavier speaker which (depending on how you intend to mount them) may make for a more difficult surround installation.

 

[Tool34]

In that case, I would like to encourage you to start out buying a pair of the UB5's and a pair of Sony CS5's from Amazon (who has 30 day return policy). We all have different preferences, but to my ear, the Sony is a better speaker despite being half the price of the UB5! Currently Andrew Jones is the big fad and the pro reviews are hyping the heck out of his designs.
I'm not saying his designs are bad - when he did the Pioneers, they took the prize for best speaker in their price class, IMHO. Sony (a direct BestBuy competitor to Pioneer) responded by putting some design talent in the Core Series which (aside from the Philharmonic AA's which add exceptional bass) is the best ~$200 speaker, to my ear. I'm not a fan of Sony, their products are generally overpriced, but the CS5 is a great exception!
Understand that I don't want you to trust me and just buy the Sony...your preferences may be different from mine. I am simply suggesting you do a no-risk listening comparison and see what you think.

If you are interested in doing this comparison and want, I can dig out my notes and tell you some specifics (sounds and songs) that led me to my conclusions about the Sony vs the Elac.

https://www.amazon.com/Sony-SSCS5-3-Driver-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B00O8YLMVA/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1482335712&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+CS5

https://www.amazon.com/ELAC-Uni-fi-Bookshelf-Speaker-Black/dp/B01CRYWVG2/ref=sr_1_1?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1482335765&sr=1-1&keywords=elac+ub5

PS - The UB5 is not a bad $500 speaker, but the Sony is a great $200 speaker (IMHO, YMMV). The Philharmonic AA's are an even better deal than the Sony's (although that is debatable when the Sony is at $169), but I cannot ask you to risk the cost of return shipping.

For anyone not using a sub, the AA's would be a no-brainer (IMHO) and I would suggest they compare the Sony vs UB5. If they prefer the Sony, return them and get the AA's which sound similar to the Sony in the mids and highs, but add exceptionally clean and deep bass. However, since you will have a sub, that deep bass is not so important and the AA's are a larger and heavier speaker which (depending on how you intend to mount them) may make for a more difficult surround installation.

Kurt-

Thanks for the reply. Look, I am a newbie to Audiophile quality equipment. I am not partial to any brand or company. Over the last few years I have researched a lot of products. Lately, I have been into headphones/ear buds. Now, I am also looking for budget priced products. My two best purchases for audio over these last few years have been the Fiio EX1 ear buds and the 1More Triple driver.

I getting a new Home Theatre system and have been researching and getting a lot of good info from people who know WAY more than I do. I will look into the Sony speakers to go along with ELAC. Thanks for the feedback and suggestions, Kurt. Really appreciated. I will keep you updated when I pull the trigger.

Take care,
Chad

 

[Mark of Cenla]

I ordered a pair of Polk RTi-A1's from Amazon a couple of days ago. A pair of black ones was $178 (retail is $324). I will compare them to the Sony Core speakers when the Polks arrive at my house. Peace and goodwill.

 

[vsound5150]

I'm leaning towards the Marantz SR-7010 or SR-6011. I really like the Denon models from the aesthetics perspective, but would like some guidance. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

Chad

Great choices, I recently purchased the SR7010 and couldn't be happier. It's loaded with features and runs fairly cool but I added a small fan to sit ontop of the unit for extra cooling and the sound quality is pure clarity. Whatever speakers you decide on best to choose one's that will support good high's as the Marantz shines on the high end, I would think the same for the Denon.