About to pull the trigger on Aperion

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dgilling

Enthusiast
hi, new to the forum and looking for some general advice. I'm building up a home theater room mostly dedicated to movies but I love music too so it will get its fair share of that. i feel like i've been around the world and back trying to narrow down to what i think I want. Here's a little back ground:

Using a Yamaha RX-830 AVR
Budget is under $2000 for speakers (was hoping for under $1500 if I can find the right sale)
Need all new speakers
Area is in the basement ~13x20ft with 7.5 foot ceilings. However, it's an open basement design so the east wall opens up to the rest of the basement.
This is what I think i've narrowed down to. I'm leaning towards the Aperion because of the 60day trial/10yr warranty/free shipping both ways. and based on specs they seem like the might be a little better. Any thoughts or feedback would be awesome. I think one of the bigger differences is the Aperion's are 6ohm speakers so i'll get more bang for my buck on my Yamaha receiver. The center for Aperion is a Mid - tweeter/mid - Mid so i think it's capable of producing better, but i have no real idea. Only thing I know about the monitor speakers is what a local rep told me. They seem good for that price. I also looked at the ELAC speakers but I think over all the Aperion's might outperform them. Again I no real proof to back that up other than reading a crap ton of reviews.

Aperion Intimus 5C Towers - $798
Aperion Intimus 5C Center - $299
Aperion Intimus 6DT in wall for surrounds - $179
SVS SB1000 or PB1000 - $500
Total - $1776
60day return/free shipping both ways
10yr warranty

Or Monitor Bronze series has a sell on crutchfield right now.

Monitor Bronze 5 Towers - $629.98
Monitor Bronze Center - $229.99
Comparable in wall for surrounds - $179
SVS SB1000 or PB1000 - $500
Total - $1538.96
60day return
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
. Again I no real proof to back that up other than reading a crap ton of reviews.
You went to a lot of effort to create that post. As nice as the post was, I didn't see a specific question I could latch on to. Your statement of "I got no proof, all I have done is read reviews" is also telling.

Reviews are helpful to sort out a large list down in to a short list. Next step would be to take your short list and find a way to audition it or listen to it. But reviews are just some guys opinion. A guy you never met.
The reviewer could be a Red Sox fan, drink RC Cola, and drive a Hyundai (I'm trying to cause outrage here without causing genuine outrage). Its different if you know the reviewer, or you share something in common with the reviewer.

I guess I just typed a paragraph to say I didn't see a question or concern I could take a shot at. You put together a great shopping list. Not a bad pick on the list. :D
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
I would look into some threads around here about Aperion quality first. They may be having some issues, not sure. Aside from that and assuming all is well, I would also throw SVS Prime into the mix. They have a nice 5.1 satellite system for short money, or for a touch more, their Prime tower 5.0 system and add the sub. That would bring it over the $1500 mark but how can you go wrong with a free 45 day risk free trial?

OTOH, it seems you need to have in-wall surrounds. Is that firm?

EDIT: This is the thread I was thinking about.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/severe-quality-issues-at-nht-and-aperion-50-defective.106257/#post-1167437
 
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dgilling

Enthusiast
Point taken bucknekked, I guess I just want someone to make this decision for me. Seems pretty impossible to audition unless you take advantage of money back guarantees.

I guess maybe my question is which would you pick for under $2k?

I haven't dipped much into the abs prime but knew I wanted an svs sub since they pretty much seem like the gold standard.

Yes having surrounds in the ceiling is kind of firm. I don't have an easy wall so it would be hard to place a surround that would look good. I've accepted that and will just try to find a descent in ceiling.

Is monitor more known for music? The info I got from their dealer made it seem that way. their quality sounded on point. Which makes me think, for less money could I get a better system with the monitor?
 
D

dgilling

Enthusiast
Oh, and I drive a Hyundai. Actually my wife does, I drive a truck.
 
Bucknekked

Bucknekked

Audioholic Samurai
Point taken bucknekked, I guess I just want someone to make this decision for me. Seems pretty impossible to audition unless you take advantage of money back guarantees.

I guess maybe my question is which would you pick for under $2k?

I haven't dipped much into the abs prime but knew I wanted an svs sub since they pretty much seem like the gold standard.

Yes having surrounds in the ceiling is kind of firm. I don't have an easy wall so it would be hard to place a surround that would look good. I've accepted that and will just try to find a descent in ceiling.

Is monitor more known for music? The info I got from their dealer made it seem that way. their quality sounded on point. Which makes me think, for less money could I get a better system with the monitor?
You can always spend less. Always. Spending less and getting more is what Audioholics is all about.

Take a look at the SVS Ultra offerrings. You may spend less and still get more.

Nothing wrong with your list other than its a big expense and you haven't listened to it yet. At least with SVS you have 30 trial period to listen.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Bucknekkid....I'm a Red Sox fan. And Bruins, Celtics, and the much hated, ever successful New England Patriots. Felling sorry for me? ;) Don't care for Hyundai or RC Cola though, so I'm only 1/3rd bad.

dgilling, do look at SVS offerings. They don't have in-ceiling or in-wall but have a cool angled ON-WALL (or ceiling) speaker. The SVS trial period is 45 days, not 30.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
hi, new to the forum and looking for some general advice. I'm building up a home theater room mostly dedicated to movies but I love music too so it will get its fair share of that. i feel like i've been around the world and back trying to narrow down to what i think I want. Here's a little back ground:

Using a Yamaha RX-830 AVR
Budget is under $2000 for speakers (was hoping for under $1500 if I can find the right sale)
Need all new speakers
Area is in the basement ~13x20ft with 7.5 foot ceilings. However, it's an open basement design so the east wall opens up to the rest of the basement.
This is what I think i've narrowed down to. I'm leaning towards the Aperion because of the 60day trial/10yr warranty/free shipping both ways. and based on specs they seem like the might be a little better. Any thoughts or feedback would be awesome. I think one of the bigger differences is the Aperion's are 6ohm speakers so i'll get more bang for my buck on my Yamaha receiver. The center for Aperion is a Mid - tweeter/mid - Mid so i think it's capable of producing better, but i have no real idea. Only thing I know about the monitor speakers is what a local rep told me. They seem good for that price. I also looked at the ELAC speakers but I think over all the Aperion's might outperform them. Again I no real proof to back that up other than reading a crap ton of reviews.

Aperion Intimus 5C Towers - $798
Aperion Intimus 5C Center - $299
Aperion Intimus 6DT in wall for surrounds - $179
SVS SB1000 or PB1000 - $500
Total - $1776
60day return/free shipping both ways
10yr warranty

Or Monitor Bronze series has a sell on crutchfield right now.

Monitor Bronze 5 Towers - $629.98
Monitor Bronze Center - $229.99
Comparable in wall for surrounds - $179
SVS SB1000 or PB1000 - $500
Total - $1538.96
60day return
Intimus 5T are a little forward sounding. I'm struggling to find measurements for the Monitor Audio Bronze package you're considering, but they might be worth an audition. Crutchfield has a pretty generous return policy in case they fail the audition.

Consider doing bookshelfs instead of floor standers. The only sonic advantages to tower speakers are extended bass response (which won't matter if you're running subs), and possibly the added sensitivity from having more drivers. With that in mind, within your budget, my choice would be the Philharmonitors and Phil MTM Center. You won't find any better price :: performance ratio within your budget unless you AIY or DIY.

If your $2000 budget includes subwoofer as well, then one of the Hsu Research hybrid packages (the Hybrid 15 5.1 package for $1969 shipped, or the Hybrid 3 HP 5.1 package for $1783 shipped, for example) ought to be at the top of your list. Given the amount of space your subwoofer will need to pressurize, I think the Hybrid 15 package would probably be the better choice for your basement.

If you absolutely must have floorstanders for your mains, then the XTZ 95 series would be worth considering for your front stage (currently on sale for 15% off!), then just some cheap Fluance bipoles for surrounds. But for that basement, I wouldn't go any lower than a 15-inch sub, which would unfortunately put you over budget.

If you're handy with clamps, glue, and veneer or paint, a DIY project or AIY kit would offer the best value for a floor stander. For AIY, the Jeff Bagby Solstice MLTL would be a good choice for towers, and I'm sure we could find you a kit for a suitable center to complement them. Or there are several alternatives in stock on DIY Sound Group.

The advantage of 3-way horizontal centers is that they can have better off-axis response than similar 2-ways. Besides the obvious off-axis benefit, this is helpful to on-axis listening in acoustically untreated rooms where first reflections can screw with what you hear. But W(MT)W / WMTMW config isn't the only way to address the horizontal lobing problems from which horizontal MTM centers often suffer. The Phil MTM Center I linked above, for example, has the mid drivers close together with the tweeter vertically offset a bit so that some of the characteristics of vertical speakers is mimicked. And of course, Dennis Murphy's exceptional crossover design plays a significant part as well.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Of that bunch I would tend to pick Monitor Audio. They are a long established company that have always kept to reasonable audio standards and quality.
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I like to see the measurements - you know - old cliche - "Show me the money" still applicable.
But I couldn't find one for MA Bronze 5, only for 6. Given these are practically brothers, 6 has a bit deeper bass extension, but should otherwise be similar:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1487:nrc-measurements-monitor-audio-bronze-6-loudspeakers&catid=77&Itemid=153
For Aperion Intimus 5:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/aperion-intimus-5t-db-hybrid-hd-speaker-system-measurements#bUkDht2tjrczzjoZ.97

Tbh: OP should strongly consider using Ascend CMT340SE for LCR duties. I believe that besides above mentioned Phil AA speakers - nothing else could touch these for performance/dollar.

HSU's kits are also great home theater choice, but may not be as great for music like Ascends or Philharmonics speakers would. HSU makes great value subs as well.
 
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dgilling

Enthusiast
Thanks so much for the feed back. this is exactly what I need to help with this decision. I'm definitely going to read through the SVS stuff. I like the idea of all my stuff coming from one place and not having to piece together a bunch of parts. I looked at their angled on-wall book shelf speaker unfortunately, it just wouldn't look that good in my opinion on my ceiling. I can use something like that on the rear channels but not the surrounds, they will have to be in the ceiling. I'll look at these other brands too. I had no idea there were this many options when I started this venture.

as for the diy/aiy, I can build just about anything. I've done this entire basement and I have the tools. I just don't want to. I'm tired of building at this point. it's been so much work and I'm not even through drywall yet! It's not just a theater though, I'm also doing a bathroom, master bedroom, gym and lounge area.

The SVS Prime tower 5.1 package looks great. I still think I would get a sub and that would put me right at $2k. I get a lot of feedback that I don't need towers but for music don't you think it would be better and provide a fuller sound if I had towers?

again, thanks for the help
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
Though I have floor standing speakers the only time they're an advantage is when I'm listening to music that really doesn't dip below 40-45hz and that ain't much these days. In such a case, I switch my receiver to "analog bypass" mode and full range signal goes to the speakers with nothing to the sub. How often might you go to that bother? (It's a simple button push on the remote for my receiver.)

That said, I really love having them. They look great and cost the same as good stand mount speakers...with good stands.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Thanks so much for the feed back. this is exactly what I need to help with this decision. I'm definitely going to read through the SVS stuff. I like the idea of all my stuff coming from one place and not having to piece together a bunch of parts. I looked at their angled on-wall book shelf speaker unfortunately, it just wouldn't look that good in my opinion on my ceiling. I can use something like that on the rear channels but not the surrounds, they will have to be in the ceiling. I'll look at these other brands too. I had no idea there were this many options when I started this venture.

as for the diy/aiy, I can build just about anything. I've done this entire basement and I have the tools. I just don't want to. I'm tired of building at this point. it's been so much work and I'm not even through drywall yet! It's not just a theater though, I'm also doing a bathroom, master bedroom, gym and lounge area.

The SVS Prime tower 5.1 package looks great. I still think I would get a sub and that would put me right at $2k. I get a lot of feedback that I don't need towers but for music don't you think it would be better and provide a fuller sound if I had towers?

again, thanks for the help
Skip the tower speakers and get bookshelf speaker fronts. Tower speakers aren't going to be advantageous in systems that use subwoofers.
 
KenM10759

KenM10759

Audioholic Samurai
We all have different opinions on that. I stated why I am glad to have mine. Sometimes I just prefer the smoothness of 2.0 rather than 2.1, but that's me.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks so much for the feed back. this is exactly what I need to help with this decision. I'm definitely going to read through the SVS stuff. I like the idea of all my stuff coming from one place and not having to piece together a bunch of parts. I looked at their angled on-wall book shelf speaker unfortunately, it just wouldn't look that good in my opinion on my ceiling. I can use something like that on the rear channels but not the surrounds, they will have to be in the ceiling. I'll look at these other brands too. I had no idea there were this many options when I started this venture.

as for the diy/aiy, I can build just about anything. I've done this entire basement and I have the tools. I just don't want to. I'm tired of building at this point. it's been so much work and I'm not even through drywall yet! It's not just a theater though, I'm also doing a bathroom, master bedroom, gym and lounge area.

The SVS Prime tower 5.1 package looks great. I still think I would get a sub and that would put me right at $2k. I get a lot of feedback that I don't need towers but for music don't you think it would be better and provide a fuller sound if I had towers?

again, thanks for the help
SVS Primes can be sibilant. That hump at 7kHz is right where the "s" sound lands on the frequency range. I promise I don't mean to squash your hopes for every choice you get excited about.

Another plan you might consider is to build your system a little at a time. Get the best mains you can afford, and wait a little while to get a no-compromise subwoofer. Then get your dream center after that. And so on.

Your HT area is roughly 2,000 cubic feet, but the east side opens up to the rest of the basement, right? How much contiguous space will there be? It could be that the PB1000 you're planning to get doesn't have the output needed to pressurize that much space.
 
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dgilling

Enthusiast
SVS Primes can be sibilant. That hump at 7kHz is right where the "s" sound lands on the frequency range. I promise I don't mean to squash your hopes for every choice you get excited about.

Another plan you might consider is to build your system a little at a time. Get the best mains you can afford, and wait a little while to get a no-compromise subwoofer. Then get your dream center after that. And so on.

Your HT area is roughly 2,000 cubic feet, but the east side opens up to the rest of the basement, right? How much contiguous space will there be? It could be that the PB1000 you're planning to get doesn't have the output needed to pressurize that much space.
No worries, squash away. I plan to love it and I have the time. I don't have the drywall up yet so a few things I have to plan ahead on, but other than that I can continue to learn and shop.

I've attached a PDF of my basement layout to get a better idea of the layout.
the Pillar in the middle of the room is to hide a column, I should have built the room slightly different and placed the surrounds in the columns, but I wanted lighting on them and didn't really know what to do with the pillar. the pole is in the worst spot and really leaves me nothing to do with the column except cover it up. There's lots of other challenges, like my walls have to float, low ceilings, etc that made things less than ideal. The pillar is also off center from the column on the wall directly across from it which is why I'm choosing not to put speakers on it. They wouldn't be directly across from each other and they might look funny with the lights. the color circles represent lighting. The main soffit covering the HVAC hangs pretty low. it will somewhat be a divider for the rooms. I can get pictures up when I get home.
 

Attachments

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dgilling

Enthusiast
Also, I have an older sony sub that I plan to use if the room needs it for the back of the room and can upgrade that later. the room will be wired for two subs just in case I need it.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
No worries, squash away. I plan to love it and I have the time. I don't have the drywall up yet so a few things I have to plan ahead on, but other than that I can continue to learn and shop.

I've attached a PDF of my basement layout to get a better idea of the layout.
the Pillar in the middle of the room is to hide a column, I should have built the room slightly different and placed the surrounds in the columns, but I wanted lighting on them and didn't really know what to do with the pillar. the pole is in the worst spot and really leaves me nothing to do with the column except cover it up. There's lots of other challenges, like my walls have to float, low ceilings, etc that made things less than ideal. The pillar is also off center from the column on the wall directly across from it which is why I'm choosing not to put speakers on it. They wouldn't be directly across from each other and they might look funny with the lights. the color circles represent lighting. The main soffit covering the HVAC hangs pretty low. it will somewhat be a divider for the rooms. I can get pictures up when I get home.
Looks to me that the amount of space your sub needs to pressurize is squarely in the "extreme" category. I don't think that PB-1000 will do it, nor would any Sony sub with which I'm familiar. But two subs is a good idea. With such a diverse seating area, multiple subs would help you avoid nulls and nodes in some of your seats, and expand the sweet spot from a single seat. I'd contact Dr. Hsu (pronounced like "shoe") at www.hsuresearch.com and ask for recommendations. Show him this PDF. See whether he thinks a dual drive VTF-3 MK5 would be appropriate for this setup, and ask whether he can work up a package deal within your budget.
 
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dgilling

Enthusiast
Looks to me that the amount of space your sub needs to pressurize is squarely in the "extreme" category. I don't think that PB-1000 will do it, nor would any Sony sub with which I'm familiar. But two subs is a good idea. With such a diverse seating area, multiple subs would help you avoid nulls and nodes in some of your seats, and expand the sweet spot from a single seat. I'd contact Dr. Hsu (pronounced like "shoe") at www.hsuresearch.com and ask for recommendations. Show him this PDF. See whether he thinks a dual drive VTF-3 MK5 would be appropriate for this setup, and ask whether he can work up a package deal within your budget.
Can you help me understand why it's of the "extreme" category? It seems to me it will be a fairly typical open basement room design with a nice TV viewing area. Granted it's not a full on dedicated theater, but that's not what I intended. do I want the best I can get out of it... well yes. Over all a descent set of towers or bookshelf speakers, that I can adjust for optimal view/listening, should be able to get some pretty stellar sound??? right?
 
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