A Weekend with the Linkwitz Orion

AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My brother Tommy and I have a mutual friend name Tim. The last time I saw him was at his house in Dallas, Texas. At that time Tim had a NHT SuperZero (5 identical) + SW2P subwoofer system (5.1) and a Harmon Kardon AVR-247. The funny thing was I had the same exact setup at the time. At dinner Tim said he was thinking of changing speakers. He said he was considering $10K Martin Logan speakers.

However, it has been a few years since I’ve seen Tim. Fast forward to this weekend. Tim came over to visit my brother, and I asked him if he ended up with the Martin Logan speakers.

Tim smiled and said, “Not quite, I ended up with the Linkwitz Lab Orion dipole speakers.”

I said, “I would love to check out your speakers.” So we all agreed to come to Tim’s house.

Tim’s living room is pretty much typical; open space that measures about 18’ x 20’ x 10’ furnished with leather sofas, carpet, and curtains. The speakers were placed about 3’ from the side walls and 3’ from the front wall. He also upgraded his HK to the AVR-3600 & HK BD player. The Orion speakers were powered by the ATI AT6012 amp + the Linkwitz ASP/crossover.

I wasn’t planning on auditioning speakers, so I didn’t bring my usual CDs, but I had my compiled CD in my car. Tim also had some classical and instrumental music CDs.

They say great minds think alike. I say great speakers sound alike!

The Orion sounded so much like the Revel Salon 2!

The first song I listened to was The Eagles “Hotel California”. I just had to listen to that bass guitar amid all that drum and everything else. Just like the Salon 2, the Orion reproduced the bass guitar with so much clarity and authority; I did not have to strain and focus completely on it. It sounded like it was playing right in the room. It was distinct with great resolution.

But what really surprised me was the bass output! Man, the bass was tight and low! It was powerful and deep. It was real bass. Just like the Salon 2, the bass was more like real-life tight bass. I was immensely impressed.

They say speakers are about compromises. The Orion may not have the same magnitude of bass compared to the RBH T3/P or T2/P or the Def Tech BP7000 for the ultimate home movie explosion experience, but the Orion had great tight deep powerful bass that shook the walls. The Orion speakers have absolute pristine resolution in the bass, midrange, and tweeters.

The other songs were “Superman”, “Time After Time”, “Don’t Dream It’s Over”, “Island In The Sun” from the Smallville soundtrack, “Six Feet Under” from the Deadzone soundtrack, “One Headlight” by the Wallflowers, and “Closing Time” by Semisonic.

I listened for clarity and resolution of vocals and instruments, deep tight bass, and accurate imaging. The Orion delivered this consistently. Whether it was female or male vocals, the Orion reproduced it with extreme life-like clarity. Whether it was bass guitars or kick drums or pianos or violins, the Orion reproduced it with life-like resolution and accuracy.

For percussion instruments, Tim had a Zar Bang “Persian and Middle Eastern Percussion” CD. The 2nd track “Rumba de Cajon” was a treat. The Orion reproduced the hand drums with awesome impact and tightness. It was utterly amazing. This is not my genre of music, but those hand percussion drums sounded so incredible. I have never heard drums so tight and powerful!

I also listened to Vivaldi’s Four Seasons, Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, Mozart’s Piano Concerto #20, and a Pachelbel Canon Baroque Favorite CD. The Orion reproduced these classical masterpieces with absolute clarity. The dynamics were tremendous. From the soft notes to the rousing orchestra climaxes, the Orion towers were absolutely convincing.

If you ask, I couldn’t tell you which speakers are better – the Orion or the Salon 2. Great speakers do sound alike. And both the Orion and the Salon 2 are great speakers IMO. They are both world-class speakers that use the best drivers and crossovers.

I guess there are pros and cons to each speaker. The Salon 2 speakers are more readily available, but they also cost about $10K more (maybe less on the street). The Salon 2 speakers are also more highly praised by more “experts” like Stereophile, Home Theater Magazine, Sound & Vision, and The Absolute Sound. The Salon 2 speakers have more prestige. But the Salon 2 towers are not unique and are like any other speakers in one regard – they are passive monopole box speakers that can be driven by one power amplifier per speaker.

The Orion speakers are more customizable; you get to pick your own wood, color stain, and finish. They are certainly more unique in that they are dipole active speakers and are quad-amped so they require 8 amps for a pair of speakers. The Orion’s active crossover is an outboard device, unlike the passive speakers which house the crossovers internally.

At this point, I am leaning towards buying the Orion. The sound quality is unsurpassed, and the uniqueness and customizability is a refreshing delight.

I saw a fine looking red color Orion picture on the Linkwitz website a few months ago. I had some fun with Photoshop and made a mirror image of one speaker. Then I colored the grills red. I’ve been using this Photoshop- Orion as part of my signature picture for a few months now.

After hearing the Salon 2, I was going to remove the Orion from my signature picture and put the Salon 2 back into my signature. But after hearing the Orion speakers, I can safely leave my signature picture exactly the way it is now – with the red Orion. I don’t know how the Orion will look upon completion with the red color stain though. I just know I like the color red.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
The Orions are best crossed with a monopole sub at 40hz. If you were listening with the Linkwitz Thor that's one option, or you could make a pair of TC Sounds LMS-Rs :D
 
Matt34

Matt34

Moderator
Was there a noticeable difference in the way they delivered the sound via the dipole/open baffle design compared to the traditional enclosure Revels?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
At this point, I am leaning towards buying the Orion. The sound quality is unsurpassed, and the uniqueness and customizability is a refreshing delight.
Yes! Get them! I'm looking forward to seeing your pics and reading of your full review. ;)

I've been very intrigued by this design since I read Peter Aczel's review of them a couple of years ago. I would seriously consider going to battle with my wife for a pair, if I had room for them. I guess it's a good thing I don't...
 
psbfan9

psbfan9

Audioholic Samurai
AcuOrionguy

Hm, when I think of dipole/bipole, I typically think of surround/theater speakers.
The bipolar speakers I ordered have the Linkwitz-Riley crossover system. I've noticed that some of the 'lower end' or maybe I should say less expensive DefTech speakers have this crossover as well.

What do you think about the less expensive Deftech bipole speakers? Do you think the trickle down theory applies to them? I've been looking at the Definitive Technology BP10B, but wondered how they sound with music.

Great review thanks.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The Orions are best crossed with a monopole sub at 40hz. If you were listening with the Linkwitz Thor that's one option, or you could make a pair of TC Sounds LMS-Rs :D
I can see the use of a subwoofer for movies, but not for music. The Orions can deliver wall-rattling deep tight bass (I placed my hands on the walls just to make sure:D). Tim said he could have increased the Orion ASP/crossover's woofer output to +2.5dB, but he feels that the bass output is perfect the way it is. I have to agree with him. Wall-rattling bass is good enough for music to me. Earthquake bass would be good enough for movies.:D

Was there a noticeable difference in the way they delivered the sound via the dipole/open baffle design compared to the traditional enclosure Revels?
After reading the Audio Critic's review and follow-ups of the Orions, I also wondered about this. I think Peter Aczel said that the Orions can image a life-like 3D soundstage like no other monopole speakers. But I don't think Peter Aczel has ever listened to the Salon 2 either.:D

I heard vocals on center, and instruments to my far right, far left, and in between. Everything sounded crystal clear and detailed. I got the same impression on the Salon 2.

I closed my eyes and tried to see what Peter Aczel was talking about. But in the end, if the Orions did reproduce a better life-like 3D soundstage than the Salon 2, I feel that it was only a slight improvement. Thus, I don't think the difference is significant. Perhaps a better seasoned pair of ears like Peter Aczel or Gene may be able to better differentiate.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Hm, when I think of dipole/bipole, I typically think of surround/theater speakers.
The bipolar speakers I ordered have the Linkwitz-Riley crossover system. I've noticed that some of the 'lower end' or maybe I should say less expensive DefTech speakers have this crossover as well.

What do you think about the less expensive Deftech bipole speakers? Do you think the trickle down theory applies to them? I've been looking at the Definitive Technology BP10B, but wondered how they sound with music.

Great review thanks.
I think Def Tech was very smart to incorporate the Linkwitz crossover on their speakers.

I've owned the BP10B as well. I thought they sounded great for music as well. Of course, this is just my opinion. As with all dipole/bipole speakers, you will need about 18" - 36" of space from the front and side walls to get the best sound from your speakers.

The late Julian Hirsch raved about the BP10 speakers in his days with Stereo Review. Of course, that is just his opinion and lab measurements.

The Audio Critic was very impressed with the Definitive SM450s in their review, so I wondered why they never reviewed any of the Definitive bipole speakers since Peter Aczel seems to love dipole/bipole speakers so much.:D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I've been very intrigued by this design since I read Peter Aczel's review of them a couple of years ago. I would seriously consider going to battle with my wife for a pair, if I had room for them. I guess it's a good thing I don't...
I have also been extremely interested in the Orions ever since I first read the Per Aczel's review. I've been keeping up on his follow-ups as well.

Yeah, now I have to figure a way to sneak these Orions into my room without my wife noticing.:eek::D

Tim has the mahogany wood, which is kind of brownish-red?

I would like mine to be a really red, though.:D

You don't think my wife will notice a pair of bright red speakers, do you?:eek:

Excellent write up - enjoyed it!
Thanks, I kind of feel sorry for some professional reviewers and how they have to come up with new words to describe the sounds of all these speakers.:D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
oh yea, apparently sl is coming out with orion 4.0 soon
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
oh yea, apparently sl is coming out with orion 4.0 soon
From what I've heard, the v4.0 will have all SEAS drivers (tweeters, midrange, and woofers) mainly due to decreased availability of the Peerless woofer drivers.

The current v3.2 has the 2 Peerless woofers firing front (right at you) and back, whereas the v4.0 has the 2 SEAS woofers firing up & down?

What do you guys think about this?

I kind of prefer the woofers firing right at me.:D
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Field Marshall
What do you think about the less expensive Deftech bipole speakers? Do you think the trickle down theory applies to them? I've been looking at the Definitive Technology BP10B, but wondered how they sound with music.
I think for two channel, the less expensive ones may actually be better for music. Take the 7006 and 7004 bipolars for example. Those have bipolar arrays of one midrange and one tweeter per side. They image more like a small two way monitor, just superb for two channel and good for recreational background listening. The larger models have the d'appolito array, with it's peculiar lobing characteristics; great for HT, seated on the couch in the sweet zone listening.

(That's what I'm using to justify my enjoyment of my less expensive DT's as I type this. I could be way off with my analysis. The reason I have the less expensive model has more to do with the-one-who-must-be-obeyed commenting on the 7000's, 'those are so big...how about those smaller ones?':rolleyes:)

ADTG, get the Orions.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
the-one-who-must-be-obeyed:rolleyes:)

ADTG, get the Orions.
LOL.:D

Yeah, I am in the process of ordering the Orions right now. I think v3.2 w/ Chery wood & red stain color w/ high-gloss finish sounds good to me.
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
lol. sure you don't want to audition a Gedlee Summa and Salk Soundscape first? ;P
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
So after you get the Orions, would you reasonably have the opportunity to get them in the same room at the same time as the Revels and make an AB comparison?
I can't remember how you came to hear the Revels.

For many of us, speakers like this fall into the "ultimate" category and it would be great to read a comparison of the two in the same setting.:)
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
So after you get the Orions, would you reasonably have the opportunity to get them in the same room at the same time as the Revels and make an AB comparison?
I can't remember how you came to hear the Revels.

For many of us, speakers like this fall into the "ultimate" category and it would be great to read a comparison of the two in the same setting.:)
One of my brother's friends own the Revel Salon 2.

As crazy as it sounds I may end up with both the Salon 2 and the Orion. I will get the Orion now, and I will probably get the Revel in a couple of years.:D
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
One of my brother's friends own the Revel Salon 2.

As crazy as it sounds I may end up with both the Salon 2 and the Orion. I will get the Orion now, and I will probably get the Revel in a couple of years.:D
So, just how far is Krypton from Georgia?:)
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
You don't think my wife will notice a pair of bright red speakers, do you?:eek:
I am 101% positive that she won't notice a thing out of the ordinary. She will just wonder where that beautiful sound is coming from...:D
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
From what I've heard, the v4.0 will have all SEAS drivers (tweeters, midrange, and woofers) mainly due to decreased availability of the Peerless woofer drivers.

The current v3.2 has the 2 Peerless woofers firing front (right iat you) and back, whereas the v4.0 has the 2 SEAS woofers firing up & down?

What do you guys think about this?

I kind of prefer the woofers firing right at me.:D
well I want to know what SL thinks! he surely has some reasoning for the upfiring woofer!
 
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