7.1 Speaker recomendations 9k budget what would you pick

[AcuDefTechGuy]

For as much as you have been talking up those Klipsch speakers, you had better have a pair on the way! As for the THX pm3 spec, I am not sure what all the requirements are exactly, but a frequency response of +/- 3 dB is needed. I haven't found any other standards, like off-axis response and distortion limits. The list of speakers that get pm3 certification is pretty small though. Anyway, if the JBL's measured poorly in any respect, Harman would not be using them as reference speakers.

Well, I'm still shock about the +/-1dB FR from a damn Klipsch! Have you ever seen me even talk about their $20K Palladium speakers? Not even.

+/-3dB is nothing special. Hell, my 802D2 is even +/-2.9dB.

I also "expect" the JBL to measure extremely well, as most of us do. But my "expectation" is no fact.

 

[Steve81]

Does THX certification guarantee that it's listening window response will measure +/-1dB?

I thought it just guarantees the speakers can output a certain SPL level cleaning?

THX certification is much more than just whether a speaker can play a certain SPL cleanly. I'd really suggest reading this article if you haven't already:
Feature Article

 

[cpp]

THX certification is much more than just whether a speaker can play a certain SPL cleanly. I'd really suggest reading this article if you haven't already:
Feature Article

that link pretty much tells it like it is.. There is NO measurements on what THX guarantees its the total system that comes closely to replicating the recorded audio/video in a film that meets certain standards laid out by THX and are deemed appropriate for playing back THX certified movies as the producers intended. But I just can't see how a normal person at home will ever be able to replicate the standards of a THX movie without having the TOTAL room equipped to support those standards..

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Main/Front Channel Speakers

THX Speakers have to meet very specific design goals in terms of their radiation pattern: In the horizontal, they must have a very, VERY wide listening window so that everyone across the couch hears good sound. At the same time they must have a limited, or narrow, listening window in the vertical because reflections off the floor and ceiling can smear and distort the sound in the time domain.

Again, back to THX realizing people will not likely acoustically treat their ceilings so that conventional speakers can be used, recently (as of Ultra2) these requirements have changed in terms of emphasis (less on vertical roll-off, more on off-axis linearity)...

THX Ultra2 also raised the bar for speaker performance. While output, sensitivity, and distortion requirements stayed the same, off-axis performance requirements changed dramatically. THX also changed how they measure the performance.

Smoothness of off-axis performance is now emphasized rather than attenuation as called for in Ultra. Recent research makes it clear that speakers with off-axis performance which is completely free of peaks and dips in amplitude response sound better that those with peaks and dips (even if attenuated). If a room has unacceptably strong ceiling and floor reflections, it is possible to correct that with acoustical treatments (something more and more consumers are willing to do), but poor off-axis linearity is something you can't fix after the fact.

They've also broken up the linearity requirement with Ultra2 into three bands of the audible frequency spectrum: Low, mid, and high. The dB window is quite tight in the mid-band, with greater variation allowed for the low and high. This requires that a speaker be quite accurate in the critical mid-band while still giving the designer enough latitude to keep their company's signature "voicing". Frankly, we find this last item a little disappointing, since we are somewhat opposed to the notion that a speaker should ever have any sort of unique "character". THX's answer is that they realize no speaker is absolutely 100% perfect in this respect, and their banding of the spectrum simply forces a manufacturer to concentrate the greatest effort on the band that matters most.


So yes, THX Ultra2 speakers have to be ACCURATE on-axis and SMOOTH off-axis. But it does NOT guarantee a FR of +/-1.0dB.

 

[Steve81]

So yes, THX Ultra2 speakers have to be ACCURATE on-axis and SMOOTH off-axis. But it does NOT guarantee a FR of +/-1.0dB.

Not necessarily, though we really don't know definitively what the tolerances are; THX doesn't make all of their requirements public knowledge, presumably because it would be a lot tougher to make money if they did. Regardless, the overall experience delivered by a Klipsch THX Ultra 2 setup is likely to be quite similar to an Atlantic Tech THX Ultra 2 setup, which is likely to be quite similar to a THX pm3 setup in a studio. There is a little wiggle room for variation, but it's hardly a free for all.

 

[cpp]

Main/Front Channel Speakers



So yes, THX Ultra2 speakers have to be ACCURATE on-axis and SMOOTH off-axis. But it does NOT guarantee a FR of +/-1.0dB.

So! does any speaker actually guarantee a FR of +/- 1.0db . The key word here is guarantee they might claim in some special chamber but will the speaker measure that way in a home...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So! does any speaker actually guarantee a FR of +/- 1.0db . The key word here is guarantee they might claim in some special chamber but will the speaker measure that way in a home...

I mean it does not "guarantee" that two or even one 3rd party source will measure a +/-1dB FR.

Regardless, the overall experience delivered by a Klipsch THX Ultra 2 setup is likely to be quite similar to an Atlantic Tech THX Ultra 2 setup, which is likely to be quite similar to a THX pm3 setup in a studio.

Sure one THX-Ultra2 speaker should sound "VERY SIMILAR" to another THX-Utra2 speaker. But as HTM measured, the KL525-THX-Ultra2 was +/-3.5dB and the KL650-THX-Ultra2 was +/-1dB.

I am not talking about actual in-room response or actual sound performance and preference, etc. Just 3rd party anechoic/ pseudo-anechoic FR measurements.

 

[Steve81]

Sure one THX-Ultra2 speaker should sound "VERY SIMILAR" to another THX-Utra2 speaker. But as HTM measured, the KL525-THX-Ultra2 was +/-3.5dB and the KL650-THX-Ultra2 was +/-1dB.

I'm actually betting they may have made a typo, i.e. it doesn't look like they had the KL525 bookshelf speaker in for measurement and review, but the KS525 surround speaker. That would naturally be a bit different from measuring a conventional monopole.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm actually betting they may have made a typo, i.e. it doesn't look like they had the KL525 bookshelf speaker in for measurement and review, but the KS525 surround speaker. That would naturally be a bit different from measuring a conventional monopole.

Those HTM bastards!

We'll never know because they PRINTED in black and white as "KL525-THX", not KS-525.

So it's possible those idiots never even measured the KL525-THX, even though they printed as such.

That's why it's great to have 2 different sources.

 

[Steve81]

So it's possible those idiots never even measured the KL525-THX, even though they printed as such.

Like I said, probably just a typo. The image on the first page shows the KS525 in the surround slot and they talk about the KS525 a little bit (the KL525 is mentioned, but just as being part of the lineup), the "At A Glance/Ratings" page mentions the KS525 surround but not the KL525 bookshelf, and of course I'm not sure why you would take a 3 face average measurement of a monopole

 

[cpp]

Those HTM bastards!

We'll never know because they PRINTED in black and white as "KL525-THX", not KS-525.

So it's possible those idiots never even measured the KL525-THX, even though they printed as such.

That's why it's great to have 2 different sources.

Now we can't trust 3rd party measurements, hurry Gene and start measuring speakers.

 

[Wynbnt]

I like Bowers & Wilkens but they could go thru budget in a hurry.