5 Reasons Dolby Atmos May Be DOA

[witchdoctor]

My front 3 speakers are all Paradigm Active 40's but I use a projector not a TV so they all sit on the same stands and I have measured the distance to the primary listening are so they are all within about an inch. The side axis channels are setup pretty much like the diagram but toed in toward the listening are.

I looked at the link to manual for a while last night. I was getting some ideas. So you set your room up with x3 matched surround each side wall and x2 on back wall total x8 that is how many I have in my THX cinema x8 JBL 8330 around the room at same equal height. The room is proper THX Dolby pro reference surrounded.

Ideally you spread the matched LCR or LR equal distance apart and keep them, in straight line in front of the room at same height level. When you start putting mismatched centre above and below the TV captain Kirk, dialog pan in STAR TREK V, or Luke Skywalker lightsaber in Return of the Jedi, won't match when forces Vader, out on the catwalk on the catwalk Vader is sexy on the catwalk, the lightsaber goes from stage left to stage right with half pan between the centre.

I have my center speaker at the same height and distance as the L-R. I use a projector not a TV. The Mapleshade Stands are lower than most and allows me to have my screen above my speakers without blocking them.

 

[witchdoctor]

With my setup I get both. Very good soundstage for stereo and very good envelopment for DAV-A/SACD and movies.

Paradigm makes some very good speakers...I've often stated that Canadian brands have a sonic signature similar to Harman brands...that would be the influence of Floyd Toole and Sean Olive at NRCC and later at Harman.

But that said, I've seen setups that defied all logic. In a HT shop, they had Paradigm towers in the front corners (about 18~24" max of space) between the sides of the screen (105"; 235:1) and side walls. The result was a very narrow soundstage.
By contrast, my JBLs on an 8ft spread (1 ft to the sides of a 65"), and 58" to the side walls produced a much wider soundstage.

So even the so called HT pros most of the time still get it wrong. Which many times is a result of video first and audio second mentality.

I never even thought of that Harman/Paradigm link! I just bought the JBL 230's for a nearfield setup in my home office. You can see my review here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/jbl-studio-230-bookshelf-speaker-review.93334/#post-1071436

 

[witchdoctor]

Here is an article where Tom Holman discusses why he thinks width channels are important:
http://www.audioholics.com/audio-technologies/audyssey-dsx-10.2

Bob Carver must feel the same way,he added width channels 5+ years before Audyssey did.

 

[andyblackcat]

Tom Holman, had his days with THX in 80's 90's for cinema then George Lucas, $^£^&**&k it all up.

I'd sooner buy a cheap AVR on eBay PLIIx or what ever and mess around with it for my own diy surround extra rather than spending £900 or thouands on same AVR that looks like all the rest just for a micro-processing chip inside it that hardly weighs much.

 

[andyblackcat]

Besides I have worked at cinema 26 years ago and I have seen more OVERHEAD SURROUND than most have had hot dinners. UCI 10 screen tower park had OVERHEAD SURROUND in all 10 screens

(1 to 4 was small screen)
(5 and 6 larger screens)
(7 to 10 smaller screens)

All screens had EV speakers for stage LCR and Overhead Surrounds mounted to the drop down suspended ceiling above.

Victoria V 35mm projectors in all screens with cake platters with manual lens turn around for W/S and SCOPE

Dolby CP55 A-type and SRA5 Spectral Recoding for SR soundtracks. Basic amp set up and booth monitor for each CP55.

And I heard Overhead Surround 37 years ago with opitcal Dolby Stereo than most here would care for, Gamount/odoen screen 1 and 2 downtown Feb 1978 STAR WARS in two screens 1 and 2 for months and months and later in the year Close Encounters March 1978 in screen 2 with mothership calling pre-Cyberton from Overhead.
Moonraker Dolby Stereo in screen 2, June 1979 and Drax, was calling for gods in space "cyberton, cybertron". Drax, got shot with a dart by Bond, and sucked into outer space...

I have heard it all before. Only discrete 37 years later and its more like 2 1/2d sound rather than 3d sound as where is the Below surround channel for underneath the seating? I'd be wasting my listening time with £900 or few grand atmos avr. Maybe wait 3 years and see if Dolby release a atmos mkII for cinema and home?

 

[andyblackcat]

I think the Dolby atmos calibration microphone will be a sellout.

Plug the USB into the mic and plug into avr atmos and room is sorted in 1 min. It even has free cleaning brush.

 

[RichB]

^^^

So is the pick for you ears

- Rich

 

[witchdoctor]

Besides I have worked at cinema 26 years ago and I have seen more OVERHEAD SURROUND than most have had hot dinners. UCI 10 screen tower park had OVERHEAD SURROUND in all 10 screens

(1 to 4 was small screen)
(5 and 6 larger screens)
(7 to 10 smaller screens)

All screens had EV speakers for stage LCR and Overhead Surrounds mounted to the drop down suspended ceiling above.

Victoria V 35mm projectors in all screens with cake platters with manual lens turn around for W/S and SCOPE

Dolby CP55 A-type and SRA5 Spectral Recoding for SR soundtracks. Basic amp set up and booth monitor for each CP55.

And I heard Overhead Surround 37 years ago with opitcal Dolby Stereo than most here would care for, Gamount/odoen screen 1 and 2 downtown Feb 1978 STAR WARS in two screens 1 and 2 for months and months and later in the year Close Encounters March 1978 in screen 2 with mothership calling pre-Cyberton from Overhead.
Moonraker Dolby Stereo in screen 2, June 1979 and Drax, was calling for gods in space "cyberton, cybertron". Drax, got shot with a dart by Bond, and sucked into outer space...

I have heard it all before. Only discrete 37 years later and its more like 2 1/2d sound rather than 3d sound as where is the Below surround channel for underneath the seating? I'd be wasting my listening time with £900 or few grand atmos avr. Maybe wait 3 years and see if Dolby release a atmos mkII for cinema and home?

Here, this is for your under seat surround http://www.parts-express.com/adx-maximus-tactile-bass-shaker-4-ohms--300-935

 

[gene]

Just a little one year update on Dolby Atmos:

• There are only a handful of manufacturers making "Atmos enabled" speakers: Triad, Pioneer, Kef, Atlantic Tech, Onkyo and Definitive Technology.
• There are about a handful of Atmos releases on Blu-ray.
• Some blu-ray players experience audio dropouts when playing Atmos discs on TrueHD / DTS HD only systems. I experienced this problem recently with MockingJay Part 1.
  
• Andrew Jones and Chris Walker are no longer with Pioneer.
• The Atmos push is moving to soundbars, laptops and tablets just like we jokingly predicted in our first Atmos YouTube video.

 

[shadyJ]

There is no reason why Atmos will not work with soundbars, laptops, tablets, etc just as well as anywhere else. People need to understand that Atmos is primarily a software technology rather than a hardware technology. While the benefits of Atmos on these devices are debatable, if processing is not an issue, there is no real downside of Atmos, especially seeing how widely compatible it can be.

 

[andyblackcat]

Here, this is for your under seat surround http://www.parts-express.com/adx-maximus-tactile-bass-shaker-4-ohms--300-935

Nah already have some Aura and dayton doing that for the shimmering vibrations.

 

[andyblackcat]

Just a little one year update on Dolby Atmos:

• There are only a handful of manufacturers making "Atmos enabled" speakers: Triad, Pioneer, Kef, Atlantic Tech, Onkyo and Definitive Technology.
• There are about a handful of Atmos releases on Blu-ray.
• Some blu-ray players experience audio dropouts when playing Atmos discs on TrueHD / DTS HD only systems. I experienced this problem recently with MockingJay Part 1.
  
• Andrew Jones and Chris Walker are no longer with Pioneer.
• The Atmos push is moving to soundbars, laptops and tablets just like we jokingly predicted in our first Atmos YouTube video.

I get - no Dolby TrueHD drop outs when using the Sony BDP-S550 own Dolby TrueHD decoder 8ch. Its only when passing though HDMI to Onyko TX-SR875 that the issue happens.

Maybe they should make some bluray players with 12ch RCA or fit a few D-25 on the back as that will take up less space over RCA outputs and supply a few free leads cables D-25 to RCA but the other snag is most new AVR don't even support 12ch or more input its only 8ch so there lies the problem.

Fishing around for suitable players vs AVR will be a pain in he a$£ for time wasting and money.

Someone needs to do tests to see what plays handle well on all current new AVR with Atmos to say what player AVR's get along well with each other with a handshake.

 

[gene]

There is no reason why Atmos will not work with soundbars, laptops, tablets, etc just as well as anywhere else. People need to understand that Atmos is primarily a software technology rather than a hardware technology. While the benefits of Atmos on these devices are debatable, if processing is not an issue, there is no real downside of Atmos, especially seeing how widely compatible it can be.

There is nothing debatable about the "Benefit" of putting Atmos in a tablet, PC or phone just like it's not debatable about having DTS HD or dolby TrueHD in them. IT is NOTHING more than a marketing buzzword and in my opinion it devalues the technology and the reputation of the brand in doing so.

 

[shadyJ]

I disagree because Atmos is very scalable and configurable. For example, PCs have been using object oriented soundtracks or many years now- in computer games. IF object oriented mixes like Atmos were more prevalent, you would not need a multitude of different mixes for the same program material. It could handle a 2 channel system as well as a 32 channel system and all from the same mix. It would make alternate language mixes that much easier to do. You don't have to redo entire swaths of the mix to put in Spanish or French, as speech becomes another object to simply swap out, so the soundtrack doesn't get degraded for different languages as often happens now.

I agree that the 'more speakers' angle is a gimmicky way to sell Atmos, but that is easier for the public to understand than trying to explain the more practical benefits of object oriented sound tracks.

 

[andyblackcat]

Yeah, Gene, its like they want us all plugged into their products 24/7/365 they are slowly trying to assimilate us all into mindless, Borgs. Next they'll have us all wearing those clunky virtual reality headset around the streets.

 

[andyblackcat]

One thing being puzzling me is why only 4 overheads even with 7.1?

Shouldn't it be

LCR and divide part of the mix from left right or one half from left and right directed and fixed to the ceiling.

Side wall surround left right one half directed and fixed to the ceiling.

Rear back surround left right one half directed and fixed to the ceiling.

So it should be 6 overheads with 7.1 and 4 overheads with 5.1. Maybe Dolby labs, can't count?

 

[gene]

I disagree because Atmos is very scalable and configurable. For example, PCs have been using object oriented soundtracks or many years now- in computer games. IF object oriented mixes like Atmos were more prevalent, you would not need a multitude of different mixes for the same program material. It could handle a 2 channel system as well as a 32 channel system and all from the same mix. It would make alternate language mixes that much easier to do. You don't have to redo entire swaths of the mix to put in Spanish or French, as speech becomes another object to simply swap out, so the soundtrack doesn't get degraded for different languages as often happens now.

I agree that the 'more speakers' angle is a gimmicky way to sell Atmos, but that is easier for the public to understand than trying to explain the more practical benefits of object oriented sound tracks.

So how will a normal Tablet or PC be any different from an Atmos Tablet or PC in this case? How could they benefit from an object based soundtrack when most of these devices are either mono or stereo.

You completely lost me since every Blu-ray disc in existence has a 2CH PCM stereo track. Netflix streams in 2CH and so does Youtube and EVERY other streaming service someone will ever use on a tablet, smartphone or PC. NOBODY buying these devices with "Atmos" has a clue what that is for, nor will they ever benefit from having it.

Oh yea but our cell phones and tablets are gonna sound just like an Atmos theater with a huge array of speakers
http://www.cnet.com/news/dolby-to-put-atmos-surround-sound-on-tablets-smartphones/

 

[shadyJ]

Since Atmos is primarily software, any Tablet or PC could, in theory, already be an Atmos Tablet or PC with a software update. In two channel mode, there wouldn't be that many benefits, but there would be some like making alternate languages easier to implement. All you would have to do is swap a dialogue sound object instead of doing an whole other mix.

I would argue that Atmos is still useful for cellphones and Tablets, etc, because, like I said earlier, if it was standardized (we are past the point where object oriented sound mixes should have been standard), then you would only need one mix on any disc or for any streaming service. Also, you could simply plug in a multichannel sound interface to any tablet or PC via HDMI or USB or whatever and connect that to your pre-amp, so you could have your tablet or even cellphone act as an Atmos source for a huge array of speakers if you wanted. I agree that wouldn't be a common use for Atmos, but look how many DJs and electronic musicians use their iPads for track mixing or synthesizers. An electronic music concert in Atmos would be pretty damn cool.

 

[andyblackcat]

"Moses threw down the Atmos tablets and smashed them at the foot of the mountain"

Moses, wasn't happy when he found out Exodus Gods and Kings, got dtsHDMA 7.1 instead of Dolby TrueHD 7.1 Atmos.

 

[gene]

Since Atmos is primarily software, any Tablet or PC could, in theory, already be an Atmos Tablet or PC with a software update. In two channel mode, there wouldn't be that many benefits, but there would be some like making alternate languages easier to implement. All you would have to do is swap a dialogue sound object instead of doing an whole other mix.

I would argue that Atmos is still useful for cellphones and Tablets, etc, because, like I said earlier, if it was standardized (we are past the point where object oriented sound mixes should have been standard), then you would only need one mix on any disc or for any streaming service. Also, you could simply plug in a multichannel sound interface to any tablet or PC via HDMI or USB or whatever and connect that to your pre-amp, so you could have your tablet or even cellphone act as an Atmos source for a huge array of speakers if you wanted. I agree that wouldn't be a common use for Atmos, but look how many DJs and electronic musicians use their iPads for track mixing or synthesizers. An electronic music concert in Atmos would be pretty damn cool.

You are talking about the benefit of soundtrack production not an actual end user benefit for those buying these devices. I have plenty of blu-rays that already have multilingual soundtracks I can access just fine on my NON Atmos PC. NOBODY will EVER use a PC as an Atmos source to a Home theater. I think your dreaming there. None of these devices are intended to do Atmos decoding to anything more than an internal operation. Very few people even integrate a home theater into their PC. There was a craze about 10 years ago to do media PC's for high res audio. It never happened. The interfaces were too clumsy and the operation less than ideal hence why everyone now simply streams from their blu-ray, smartTV or a HDD connected via USB. THis is ALL 2CH BTW.

I guess time will tell but right now Atmos isn't even a pimple on the proverbial mobile/PC maps ass for the market it is trying to go after.

PS. We have an article coming out about this tomorrow. Dolby is partnering with a company called Jaunt to create a virtualized immersive headphone experience with mobile. This has potential but it's NOT the same thing as what is being done now by adding the Atmos logo to a tablet or smartphone.