4K Upgrade has turned costly

Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Oh I will say that so far I've had zero HDMI issue other than the ARC not working but like I said that could be a cable issue. I'm extremely happy with this receiver and feel confident I made the right purchase. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
There is no LFE crossover. There's a LPF of LFE and the normal setting is 120 as that's the normal limit of the LFE channel (i.e. the .1 content). Crossovers sound reasonable otherwise.

edited, for some reason your last few posts just showed up after I started composing
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Oh, and it's fine to raise crossovers after Audyssey but lowering leaves an unfiltered gap....

And good luck with the speakers...
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Thanks. SVS customer service is open today from 12-4pm EST so I'm going to give them a call. I may be in the market for new speakers depending on what they say.. so if anyone knows anyone selling a couple SVS-SC-01's I'd be interested in chatting with them lol.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Well SVS customer service is still as awesome as I remember. Just talked to a guy there who is able to get me an S-series driver for only $75, complete with instructions and pictures. He said given my symptoms that ought to do the trick. Lot cheaper than buying new speakers!
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
what is this graph trying to explain? :confused:
It's based on the human eye's perception of resolution at varying distances to the screen. It's basically indicating that the further you are away from a screen the less important the number of pixels it contains. I've always used the example of that one Salvador Dali painting of Abraham Lincoln to explain this. If you're not familiar with it you can look if up. Up close to the painting all you see are a bunch of different colored squares but the further back you stand you begin to see a portrait of Abraham Lincoln.

So in his graph, it's basically saying if you sit a certain distance from your setup, upgrading to 4k won't make much of a difference in terms of what you can actually see.
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
UHD = expanded P3 color space + High Dynamic Range (10 bit gradients) + higher bit-rates + 4K.

Some UHD disks include better audio mixes and Atmos. Although, I have only a 5.1 system Star Trek Into Darkness has a better mix which I noticed and later discovered that this title included a new Atmos sound track.

BD's are great but UHD has the opportunity to be better in ways not addressed by eye charts.

- Rich
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Very true. Wasn't considering the HDR aspect of upgrading, though keep in mind all HDR TV's are 4k, but not all 4K TV's have HDR. :) As to the audio, fair point, but the chart wasn't concerned with Atmos.

Either way we're talking subjective human perception here and that chart isn't really designed to be used to compare specs. Just a rough indicator of how the human eye perceives resolution at different distances. I think the whole chart is superseded by the fact that this is the way the industry is headed regardless and there's a lot of demand for it right now it seems.

I too run a 5.1 system but I wanted an Atmos, DTS:X capable AVR because eventually I may upgrade and install height channel speakers.. to me I think that would be more worthy of expending the time and cost than adding two rear channels for a 7.1 setup. And I'm literally out of real estate to do that in my current living room anyway.

Cheers. :)
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Well, as promised I'm posting my initial review of the new Marantz SR6011. This may echo some other reviews elsewhere in the forum, it may offer some new perspectives and to be fair I've only had it hooked up for a day and a half so I'm sure I will experience additional aspects of it as time goes on.

Anyway, here's my list of pros and cons so far...

Pros:
  • Full, rich sound - nice and warm, powerful and crisp; drives my speakers cleanly and powerfully
  • Music listening in 2.1 stereo sounds exponentially better than it ever did on my old Pioneer
  • Superb 4K HDR pass through, zero hiccups experienced (thus far)
  • Excellent scaling of 1080p content to 4K (far superior to the TV's up-scaling capabilities)
  • Multi-zone control and assignable inputs/outputs is great (currently running a basic 5.1 HT setup with a second zone established on the patio)
  • Ability to independently vary both the volume of Zone 2 and its input (can select a different source to play in Zone 2 than what is playing on the main system)
  • Easy integration into my Harmony remote
  • Superb connectivity via Marantz mobile app (can adjust every single setup parameter, inputs and outputs and zone 2 controls right from my phone)
  • On screen display of volume bar (very high WAF on this one). The notable exception here is that this feature is absent when utilizing the streaming apps built in to the TV as I only have an optical cable connection fed back to the AVR for audio - still working on getting full ARC connectivity going and if I do, I'll retire the optical cable connection).
  • Intuitive and sensible rear connection panel
  • 11.2 channel pre-amps built in (currently unused, but this is huge in the event I ever win the lottery, build a huge dedicated HT room and decide to independently power each channel for a full Atmos system :cool: ). Either way, given the 9 powered output channels and the 11 pre-amp channels, this thing comes loaded with lots of expandability options.
  • Easy and intuitive on-screen setup menu
  • Multiple listening position evaluation during the Audyssey auto-calibration (up to 8 different listening positions are evaluated - I only had to use four, unless I account for my dogs' normal listening positions on the floor lol)
  • Ability to adjust dialogue level itself. Sometimes a huge plus for poorly mixed 5.1 audio.
  • Sleek, modern design - fits well in my entertainment console
Cons (there aren't many and most of them are minor):
  • Audyssey doesn't necessarily provide the best EQ and crossover settings for my system. I've had to go back in and manually adjust a few parameters after running the calibration to achieve a better sound. Seems that Audyssey does have some limitations in this regard.
  • Not a fan of the tiny circular display window on the front. This is mitigated by on-screen displays for volume and setup controls, so this is a very minor point. I liked being able to glance down at the AVR in the past and see what signal is coming in and what speakers are active without having to bring up an on-screen display. This will likely grow on me over time.
  • Lack of better bass management control (i.e., standing wave control) at least none that I have been able to see yet. If it does provide any EQ correction for the sub itself I haven't seen it yet or figured out how to access that. This was a feature on my old Pioneer that I loved - I have a very awkward room with vaulted ceilings.. standing waves in my space are a definite problem. As a result, watching some scenes with a lot of bass/LFE I've noticed a slight bit muddier and/or boomier low end, whereas in the past that kind of stuff would be very tight and punchy in my main listening position.
  • She runs quite a bit hotter than my previous AVR. I felt this in the store as well and made a note to ensure a lot of space is left open in my rack above the unit to allow for proper cooling and heat dissipation. It's got about a good 8 inches above it for this, so I don't foresee it being a huge issue.
  • Few second delay in bluetooth controls of the music on my phone and the AVR responding. Again, very very minor issue here.
  • Bluetooth range is not bad, but it's not great... I walked out into my backyard with music playing from my phone and it lost the connection. This may be an issue if I host a party and am doing my usual grilling and backyard stuff. But my old Pioneer didn't even have this option to begin with so it's still a plus overall.
So that's what I've got so far.. again, probably have a lot more to say after I've had enough time to get to know her better, but I can safely say that overall it is a fine fine AVR and I consider my money well spent and I'm much less upset about going $400 over my initial budget. :)

Oh and I'll wrap this thread up by making a nod to the title I wrote when posting. All together, my conversion to a fully equipped 4K system has set me back a total of about $3500. That even includes the price of the replacement driver for that one aforementioned speaker issue. So I guess I'll give myself another 8-9 years or so before 8K becomes the next thing and go through the whole process again.. :D
 
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rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Very nice summary. I enjoyed the contrast with your previous Pioneer AVR, especially knowing you were reluctant to part with your Pioneer for its satisfying sound.

  • Lack of better bass management control (i.e., standing wave control) at least none that I have been able to see yet. If it does provide any EQ correction for the sub itself I haven't seen it yet or figured out how to access that. This was a feature on my old Pioneer that I loved - I have a very awkward room with vaulted ceilings.. standing waves in my space are a definite problem. As a result, watching some scenes with a lot of bass/LFE I've noticed a slight bit muddier and/or boomier low end, whereas in the past that kind of stuff would be very tight and punchy in my main listening position.
The Marantz SR7xxx line has upgraded bass management with SubEQ HT, providing more biquads of correction and the ability to correct two subs independently. With your current AVR if you'd prefer greater control of your bass management, consider investing in a miniDSP and a measurement mic. Should you ever decide in the future to upgrade to dual subwoofers to even out the response at your seating area, a miniDSP will be even more useful then.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
The Marantz SR7xxx line has upgraded bass management with SubEQ HT, providing more biquads of correction and the ability to correct two subs independently. With your current AVR if you'd prefer greater control of your bass management, consider investing in a miniDSP and a measurement mic. Should you ever decide in the future to upgrade to dual subwoofers to even out the response at your seating area, a miniDSP will be even more useful then.
Hmmm, well that's unfortunate. I guess that level of sub management is no longer offered as a standard in mid-priced AVR's and is a feature only available for the highest end stuff. That's how they get ya...

I'm not too familiar with miniDSP's, but I gather this would offer some EQ'ing capabilities directly on the sub's pre-amp signal line? Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on this?
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Hmmm, well that's unfortunate. I guess that level of sub management is no longer offered as a standard in mid-priced AVR's and is a feature only available for the highest end stuff. That's how they get ya...

I'm not too familiar with miniDSP's, but I gather this would offer some EQ'ing capabilities directly on the sub's pre-amp signal line? Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on this?
Ya, it's a little black box about the size of a bar of soap. It sits between the LFE output of your AVR and the inputs of your sub(s). You basically use a calibrated measurement mic attached to a PC to perform sweeps using a piece of freeware called Room EQ Wizard; then calculate what filters are needed to flatten that response. Import those corrections into the miniDSP, and voila! Flat response. If you need to tame standing waves, you can add manual filters (-6dB at 60Hz, Q of 0.8, or whatever is appropriate. Fiddle with it till it sounds better.) AustinJerry wrote an excellent tutorial for REW which will explain with screenshots in further detail.
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
Ya, it's a little black box about the size of a bar of soap. It sits between the LFE output of your AVR and the inputs of your sub(s). You basically use a calibrated measurement mic attached to a PC to perform sweeps using a piece of freeware called Room EQ Wizard; then calculate what filters are needed to flatten that response. Import those corrections into the miniDSP, and voila! Flat response. If you need to tame standing waves, you can add manual filters (-6dB at 60Hz, Q of 0.8, or whatever is appropriate. Fiddle with it till it sounds better.) AustinJerry wrote an excellent tutorial for REW which will explain with screenshots in further detail.
Excellent tip, thank you! I will definitely look into that if I decide that yeah I need to tame that big ol' sub. :)
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
So the link you posted seems to reference the Dirac Live 88A module which is about $1000 on the DSP website. Maybe a bit over the top for what I need? It also looks like a full rack-mount sized unit not the smaller one you describe. Do you have a particular model that you'd recommend to suit my needs?
 
RichB

RichB

Audioholic Field Marshall
So the link you posted seems to reference the Dirac Live 88A module which is about $1000 on the DSP website. Maybe a bit over the top for what I need? It also looks like a full rack-mount sized unit not the smaller one you describe. Do you have a particular model that you'd recommend to suit my needs?
You cannot use a miniDSP 88A because you would need to have amps after each output.

For sub only equalization, your can use the MiniDSP 2x4 for $125. They have an optional mic for use with REW. I have seen specs where Dirac processing can take 20 to 40 milliseconds. Simple PEQ will take more like 4 milliseconds. Gene has a video where he used one of their PEQ DSP's to balance his subs.


- Rich
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
You cannot use a miniDSP 88A because you would need to have amps after each output.

For sub only equalization, your can use the MiniDSP 2x4 for $125. They have an optional mic for use with REW. I have seen specs where Dirac processing can take 20 to 40 milliseconds. Simple PEQ will take more like 4 milliseconds. Gene has a video where he used one of their PEQ DSP's to balance his subs.


- Rich
Awesome. That sounds like a winner right there. Thanks Rich!
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
So the link you posted seems to reference the Dirac Live 88A module which is about $1000 on the DSP website. Maybe a bit over the top for what I need? It also looks like a full rack-mount sized unit not the smaller one you describe. Do you have a particular model that you'd recommend to suit my needs?
The reference to Dirac Live 88A is in AustinJerry's vanity wall of a signature. The guide I was referring to appears immediately below "Link to PDF:" and is labeled "Getting Started with REW: A Step-by-Step Guide". And actually, it appears since the last time I paid attention, he linked directly to his Dropbox repository: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78476446/REW 101 HTS Current Version.pdf

Just wanted to make sure to give credit where credit's due. AustinJerry performs a worthwhile service, and deserves recognition for his efforts. :)
 
Halon451

Halon451

Audioholic Samurai
The reference to Dirac Live 88A is in AustinJerry's vanity wall of a signature. The guide I was referring to appears immediately below "Link to PDF:" and is labeled "Getting Started with REW: A Step-by-Step Guide". And actually, it appears since the last time I paid attention, he linked directly to his Dropbox repository: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78476446/REW 101 HTS Current Version.pdf

Just wanted to make sure to give credit where credit's due. AustinJerry performs a worthwhile service, and deserves recognition for his efforts. :)
Ahh yes I see now. Yeah that's a very comprehensive guide and credit should be appropriately given. I'll be printing this out for future tweaking. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
One thing you might want to do before buying a minidsp etc is to use all 8 mic positions and don't literally put them in your various seats, except for the first, do that in your primary seat, then try a small circle around your seat, maybe 3-4 feet in diameter. The Pioneers had a separate standing wave adjustment but Audyssey doesn't allow separate adjustment. I had a Pioneer and while MCACC was okay, I find XT32 quite a bit better, particularly for subs.
 

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