$300-$600 to upgrade my computer speakers...help please!

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Trace79

Enthusiast
I found this website and love everything I'm learning so far. I've browsed through some similar threads using the search but would like to get some advice on my specific situation here. Thank you in advance :).

Help me take advantage of black friday :).

Here's what I'm working with: I recently had my Logitech Z-5500's crap out on me and luckily I was still in warranty by only two weeks for a full refund lol. The replacement Z906's sound like **** from the reviews and aren't worth it when I can get a full refund which I am doing right now. I loved those Z-5500's but have nothing to compare them with except these little $24 5W temp replacements that bring pain to my ears. I'm sure many on this site would call the Z-5500 speakers crap in sound and I am not one to disagree since I'm no expert. After searching for similar replacements there was nothing in the 5.1 department as far as pre-built systems. I listen to music almost always, sometimes watch movies, and play games seldom to never. Hence, I am looking for a solid 2.0 or 2.1 system, with potential to upgrade to 5.1 later...maybe. I'm mostly about music of literally all kinds; jazz, trip-hop, acoustic, and hard hitting electronic and hip-hop at times. I would like my music to be loud -as loud if not louder than the Z-5500, but also clean and crisp if possible. I am fully willing to sacrifice volume for clarity as long as I can tell a difference from the Z-5500 that I am accustomed to.

My desktop is running on a Foxconn Bloodrage motherboard with a Sonar Realtek 889 soundcard.

I have limited space to work with. My room is small with close proximity to the speakers. The monitors will have to be around 6"W x 8"D...preferably smaller but that is the max dimensions do to their resting locations. Oh, and magnetically shielded since one of them might be sitting next to one of my 24" LCD's.

Should I get powered monitors and a sub? Passive monitors with an amp and a sub or no sub? An A/V receiver is out of the question since there is no room for it.

Like I said my budget is around $300-$600 while always preferring to cut cost, but if there is a huge difference in sound and the money is worth it, I'm willing to spend a little extra. My goal here is to get equal or better volume, better sound, and possibly better bass than my old Z-5500 on or around this budget.

Thanks again for the help.
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
If I were you, I would go for some studio monitors with good bass extension. This thread here recently discussing someone who was after the same thing, I think it would benefit you to read through it.
 
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Kyuuketsuki

Enthusiast
Probably a lot cheaper though since its black friday and from the US you don't get the inflation that I get from Australia.

Australian inflation wasn't as bad as I had thought when i started looking, only about 20% more on top of what it would cost in the states.


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Usually find them under Home Theatre -> Speakers or Audio Components/Pro Audio stuff

might find something on black friday special from one of the usual bargain hunting sites
 
T

Trace79

Enthusiast
@ ShadyJ

Yes, I saw this thread am re-reading it again. One thing I am curious about is the output jacks of my soundcard/motherboard have only one output for both L/R front, one for both L/R rear and a center/subwoofer output. How would I properly convert this into a DAC with specific L and R inputs? Sorry for the noob questions but I'm reading as I go and all this happened so soon that I'm rushing to try and make the best decision when black friday comes. Also, was taking notion of Aussie prices in that thread that I might be able to avoid.

@ Kyuuketsuki

nice post of link, i'll be sure to check them out.

Sorry I can't post any links of my own yet...haven't reached the 5 post limit lol :).
 
T

Trace79

Enthusiast
Okay so I think I may be able to narrow things down a bit. In my OP I listed the dimensions of what I can handle as far as resting space for the speakers. There are two 24" LCD's side by side just to give you a visual of why smaller would be better. After a few reads, it seams that without a subwoofer, I'll need at least an 8" mid to get adequate bass than something 5" or smaller. However, I really like those Pioneer S-DJ05 at almost $500 a pair, I just don't think I'd be happy with the lack of bass.

So I either go with a 2.1 system with monitors that fit the description of my OP or I due away with my second LCD screen since it's on it's third leg anyway, and instead of replacing it, invest in the sound and go for larger 2.0 that can make up the bass of a lacking sub.

Can anyone give a comparison of what I might expect going from the Z-5500 to a 2.0 system of decent quality? Will better sound out of a 5" mid make up for that 10" sub when it comes to heavier music?
 
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K

Kyuuketsuki

Enthusiast
8" is actually referring to the size of the driver, the circular portion of the speaker.
You'll need to google the model and add something like measurements or size to try pull out the exact dimensions.

That said ShadyJ recommended 8"ers as they give out adequate bass at listening distance, since your using it on your computer anyways like me it shouldn't be a problem.

I personally rarely turn the speakers over 95dB and bass on smaller drivers are only flawed if you have them loud enough to hear the discrepancy.
To my understanding, the larger the driver the more bass it can output without losing any clarity.

Z-5500's are usually described as heavy in bass and treble but lacking overall clarity, so more of a boomy electric sound while studio monitors are usually built to provide true to the source sound.

There were some cheap 10" KRK's that I listed and he told me that I'd never need the kind of volume it'd output for something at home but would maintain clear at really high levels.

Only thing about using the jacks from your computer is that it introduces interference from other components in your computer creating some distortion/hums/buzzing noises from what I've read. Even without having my computer on, if I plug leave my X-540's plugged in i getting a buzzing sound and a low hum at different angles and can't sleep unless I pull the plug from the wall/computer(and yeh I turned them off at the switch, doesn't work)

If you like more bass, I read putting Studio monitors against the wall tends to increase it beyond what would be a balanced audio signal and depending on what you hook it up with/which speaker you buy you may be able to change the output of the bass.
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
First, you said you have an LCD display; they don't mind magnetic fields so you don't need shielded speakers.

From your listening habits, I would say that powered monitors would do well for you. I would tend to stay away from "computer speakers" since you are well within the price range of real small powered monitors - which usually sound better - especially for serious music. For close up listening, GOOD powered monitors, even smallish ones, will even make enough bass that you won't really need a sub to get pretty good sound. There are dozens of small powered monitors in your price range. (I will suggest you check out our little Airmotiv 4's at Emotiva Professional, LLC - for $349 the pair.)

If your sound card puts out good audio quality, then you're set. If that's not quite satisfying then, considering your space restrictions, you could add a small "portable" USB DAC. You can spend whatever you want for one of those, but even the cheaper ones are often a huge step up from an internal sound card. FiiO makes a cute one for about $50.

I found this website and love everything I'm learning so far. I've browsed through some similar threads using the search but would like to get some advice on my specific situation here. Thank you in advance :).

Help me take advantage of black friday :).

Here's what I'm working with: I recently had my Logitech Z-5500's crap out on me and luckily I was still in warranty by only two weeks for a full refund lol. The replacement Z906's sound like **** from the reviews and aren't worth it when I can get a full refund which I am doing right now. I loved those Z-5500's but have nothing to compare them with except these little $24 5W temp replacements that bring pain to my ears. I'm sure many on this site would call the Z-5500 speakers crap in sound and I am not one to disagree since I'm no expert. After searching for similar replacements there was nothing in the 5.1 department as far as pre-built systems. I listen to music almost always, sometimes watch movies, and play games seldom to never. Hence, I am looking for a solid 2.0 or 2.1 system, with potential to upgrade to 5.1 later...maybe. I'm mostly about music of literally all kinds; jazz, trip-hop, acoustic, and hard hitting electronic and hip-hop at times. I would like my music to be loud -as loud if not louder than the Z-5500, but also clean and crisp if possible. I am fully willing to sacrifice volume for clarity as long as I can tell a difference from the Z-5500 that I am accustomed to.

My desktop is running on a Foxconn Bloodrage motherboard with a Sonar Realtek 889 soundcard.

I have limited space to work with. My room is small with close proximity to the speakers. The monitors will have to be around 6"W x 8"D...preferably smaller but that is the max dimensions do to their resting locations. Oh, and magnetically shielded since one of them might be sitting next to one of my 24" LCD's.

Should I get powered monitors and a sub? Passive monitors with an amp and a sub or no sub? An A/V receiver is out of the question since there is no room for it.

Like I said my budget is around $300-$600 while always preferring to cut cost, but if there is a huge difference in sound and the money is worth it, I'm willing to spend a little extra. My goal here is to get equal or better volume, better sound, and possibly better bass than my old Z-5500 on or around this budget.

Thanks again for the help.
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
OK, your sound card already HAS a DAC in it (that's what a sound card IS); those output jacks on your sound card are analog - and they are 3.5 mm stereo connectors (like a headphone connector). They are giving you a separate analog output for each speaker (assuming you have powered speakers). You can get simple wires to connect each of your current analog outputs directly to a single pair of small powered speakers (3.5mm stereo to 3.5mm stereo), just get enough speakers for all the channels. Some computer speakers come in sets, in which case they'll have the appropriate inputs for all those wires (or some sort of adapter).

To connect to an external DAC you need DIGITAL outputs. Some sound cards have digital outputs, but they would be labeled "digital out" or "S/PDIF" or maybe "Toslink".

If you add an external DAC, the most common type is connected via USB (it replaces your internal sound card entirely and the computer sees it as "a USB sound card"). External DACs/sound cards can be either the audiophile variety, which are usually only stereo, or of the surround sound variety.
(If you buy one, though, you'll end up with the same analog outputs you have now - just, hopefully, of better quality.)

@ ShadyJ

Yes, I saw this thread am re-reading it again. One thing I am curious about is the output jacks of my soundcard/motherboard have only one output for both L/R front, one for both L/R rear and a center/subwoofer output. How would I properly convert this into a DAC with specific L and R inputs? Sorry for the noob questions but I'm reading as I go and all this happened so soon that I'm rushing to try and make the best decision when black friday comes. Also, was taking notion of Aussie prices in that thread that I might be able to avoid.

@ Kyuuketsuki

nice post of link, i'll be sure to check them out.

Sorry I can't post any links of my own yet...haven't reached the 5 post limit lol :).
 
KeithL

KeithL

Audioholics Approved Vendor
To add/clarify a bit. All else being equal, the larger the driver, the more bass it can make. However, a small driver that can move a lot will make as much bass as a larger driver with less range of motion, and small speakers often have electronic equalization (so they can go plenty low, but just not very loudly). Larger drivers also require a larger cabinet; in a too-small cabinet, a smaller driver will actually make more bass than a larger one, because the larger driver is too cramped.

If we're talking about a computer speaker that you're going to listen to from close up, anything from about 4" on up, if it's of good quality, can make plenty of bass to sound great at moderate listening levels.

It is true that connecting things to a computer tends to invite hum and other similar noise issues, but not always.

As for bass and surfaces, the general rule is that, if you start with a speaker hanging in the center of a room, sitting it against one surface (the floor) doubles the low bass; putting it against two surfaces (on the floor against the wall) doubles that again, and three surfaces (in a corner) doubles it again - for a total of 8x as much low bass in a corner as hanging on a string. Also remember that most speakers are INTENDED to be placed in a certain type of location, in which case increasing the bass will just exaggerate it, in which case they'll sound thunderous and not at all good (and some speakers have a switch to adjust for this - usually called "boundary compensation").

8" is actually referring to the size of the driver, the circular portion of the speaker.
You'll need to google the model and add something like measurements or size to try pull out the exact dimensions.

That said ShadyJ recommended 8"ers as they give out adequate bass at listening distance, since your using it on your computer anyways like me it shouldn't be a problem.

I personally rarely turn the speakers over 95dB and bass on smaller drivers are only flawed if you have them loud enough to hear the discrepancy.
To my understanding, the larger the driver the more bass it can output without losing any clarity.

Z-5500's are usually described as heavy in bass and treble but lacking overall clarity, so more of a boomy electric sound while studio monitors are usually built to provide true to the source sound.

There were some cheap 10" KRK's that I listed and he told me that I'd never need the kind of volume it'd output for something at home but would maintain clear at really high levels.

Only thing about using the jacks from your computer is that it introduces interference from other components in your computer creating some distortion/hums/buzzing noises from what I've read. Even without having my computer on, if I plug leave my X-540's plugged in i getting a buzzing sound and a low hum at different angles and can't sleep unless I pull the plug from the wall/computer(and yeh I turned them off at the switch, doesn't work)

If you like more bass, I read putting Studio monitors against the wall tends to increase it beyond what would be a balanced audio signal and depending on what you hook it up with/which speaker you buy you may be able to change the output of the bass.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Hi Keith, those airmotivs do look interesting, although I definitely would not trust a 4" woofer to produce any serious bass, even though I can see the plots you guys have up. Forgive my skepticism, I am only speaking from what I have heard from smaller drivers, and I certainly haven't heard everything. It should be mentioned that while a small driver can match the bass output of a larger driver, it has to work a lot harder to do so, and higher excursion can often mean higher distortion. Everything else being equal, there will be a certain point in output that a smaller driver will be coughing up a lung trying to match a larger driver that is just loafing along in bass frequencies. Of course, I have no idea where that point is on the airmotiv speakers, and I am sure you guys are using good drivers. Nonetheless, the design is intriguing, it reminds me of Adam speakers but half as expensive, and I think if they can come close to Adam's renowned sound quality at those prices then you guys have some real winners in that line of monitors.
 
B

bikemig

Audioholic Chief
Given the OP's space limitations, powered monitors make more sense than passive speakers. Smaller monitors don't go down as deep but I find they work better in a nearfield set up than do larger speakers. The airmotiv 4s are a very good suggestion. You can always add a sub if you think that the airmotivs don't go low enough.

Alternatively (and this is over the OP's budget), you could the NHT powered monitors, sub, and preamp combo:
PC Hifi System | Complete 2.1 Desktop Speaker System | SuperPower System | High End Desktop Speaker System

Or you could get this 2.1 swan system from the audio insider which fits well within your budget: Swan M50W active desktop loudspeaker system
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
I have limited space to work with. My room is small with close proximity to the speakers. The monitors will have to be around 6"W x 8"D...preferably smaller but that is the max dimensions do to their resting locations.
If you are going to have them pushed flush against a wall or in a bookshelf, you want the back to not have any vents. Here are a couple that do not have rear vents, NHT Super Power (Height: 9” Width: 5.5” Depth: 6.75”), Audioengine A5+ (10.75" x 7" x 7.75").

To keep desktop clutter to a minimum, get self powered speakers. If there is no volume knob on them, use the computer software for volume control (caveat emptor: in some situations you will loose dynamic range. This is only an issue if you are doing sound processing or record mastering work).
 
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T

Trace79

Enthusiast
Lots of really great replies and suggestions, thank you to all. I can't properly respond right now since I'm on a quick lunch break but here's a few an update and a few questions...

I have an S/PDIF RCA outlet on the back of my motherboard. I'm guessing this would be the preferred method of connection for optimal sound quality vs the analog outputs? Also, if I go with a pair of powered monitors, do I just hook up the output from my computer to one of those speakers and then there is a connection cable that comes with the speakers to drive the other speaker? Or do I have to find some way to split the output to two sources like getting a DAC?

I think I am going to get some powered monitors - I really like those Emotiva5's or the audioengine5+...I'm looking for at least 75W for when I want it loud. Plus, I'm sure I will want to get a third party sub later on so how will I go about connecting all of those together so I have separate volume control outside my desktop...I'm guessing a DAC or something with a out for a sub? I haven't noticed any in the links I've been reading in the forums so far.

I'll try to give appropriate thanks after work when I have more time.
 
T

Trace79

Enthusiast
Sorry, got confused the name on the Airmotiv5's...not "Emotiva5's" :) And that NHT 2.1 is very tempting! The Superpowers themselves look great at each one delivering 90W. The driver is only 4.5" though so a sub would be ideal and I'm sure that Super8 would do just fine. At $750 it is above budget but I might be able to swing it if it's really worth it. It looks like there are several options for 2.0 in $400 range alone that are producing close to 100w. The audioengine5+ I just realized is only 50-75W per speaker so the NHT's look a lot more appealing. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the airmotive5's are 100W each speaker...or are they like the audioengine5's with the amps in only one speaker powering both?
 
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shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Lots of really great replies and suggestions, thank you to all. I can't properly respond right now since I'm on a quick lunch break but here's a few an update and a few questions...

I have an S/PDIF RCA outlet on the back of my motherboard. I'm guessing this would be the preferred method of connection for optimal sound quality vs the analog outputs? Also, if I go with a pair of powered monitors, do I just hook up the output from my computer to one of those speakers and then there is a connection cable that comes with the speakers to drive the other speaker? Or do I have to find some way to split the output to two sources like getting a DAC?

Plus, I'm sure I will want to get a third party sub later on so how will I go about connecting all of those together so I have separate volume control outside my desktop...I'm guessing a DAC or something with a out for a sub? I haven't noticed any in the links I've been reading in the forums so far
I would get a nice DAC and skip the SPDIF. Here is a nice audio interface which would be good for two channel listeing, it's E-mu so I think the software drivers will be good, and it has a simple, uncluttered layout as opposed to many other pro-audio interfaces with a nice volume control on the front panel. Install that to your computer and get some balanced 1/4" TRS cables and hook them up to your monitors. If you need to save space, I think the Emotiva monitors would be great, but if you have the room, I would swing for these Mackie Monitors. They will have very real bass and those beasts will make your friends envious. When you get a sub, what you want to do is get one that has left and right RCA inputs like in this picture, and get a stereo 1/8" male to RCA pair male cable like this one. Plug the 1/8" end to the 1/8" jack (obviously) on the back panel of the E-mu box and the RCA plugs to the sub.
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Sorry, got confused the name on the Airmotiv5's...not "Emotiva5's" :) And that NHT 2.1 is very tempting! The Superpowers themselves look great at each one delivering 90W. The driver is only 4.5" though so a sub would be ideal and I'm sure that Super8 would do just fine. At $750 it is above budget but I might be able to swing it if it's really worth it. It looks like there are several options for 2.0 in $400 range alone that are producing close to 100w. The audioengine5+ I just realized is only 50-75W per speaker so the NHT's look a lot more appealing. I can't tell for sure but it looks like the airmotive5's are 100W each speaker...or are they like the audioengine5's with the amps in only one speaker powering both?
Don't pay much attention to the watts. The speaker drivers will have far more to do with how loud the speaker gets than the amplifier. Smaller, high excursion drivers need a lot more power than larger drivers to produce the same amount of bass, and the bass they produce can often be of lesser quality since they have to be pushed so hard to achieve it. I think that NHT deal isn't the best bang for the buck for performance, although its simplicity is nice. The NHT subwoofer is pretty sorry looking, it specs worse than this $100 thing from Monoprice, yet NHT is charging $300 for it. I would definitely skip that. The NHT speakers are sealed, so they wont have any real bass output to speak of on their own. Even if they were vented like the Emotivas it would be iffy that they would have substantial bass output. In my opinion that NHT system isn't a very good value on paper, although I haven't heard them in person and they may very well sound magical (I doubt it).
 
agarwalro

agarwalro

Audioholic Ninja
I have an S/PDIF RCA outlet on the back of my motherboard. I'm guessing this would be the preferred method of connection for optimal sound quality vs the analog outputs?
Using the S/PDIF (aka. digital) out will offload the digital to analog conversion from the onboard sound card. Theoretically, this will produce a better signal prior to amplification (mostly due to less interference in conversion circuits, but, some folks claim that different DACs (down to chip design and a manufacturer's implementation of the chip can make a palpable difference in sound quality). Realistically, the benefit of this additional step (for your specific case) is questionable and you have added one more point of failure to the chain.

Also, if I go with a pair of powered monitors, do I just hook up the output from my computer to one of those speakers and then there is a connection cable that comes with the speakers to drive the other speaker? Or do I have to find some way to split the output to two sources like getting a DAC?
You'll have to look at the connection instructions. A DAC is not used for splitting L-R from computer to different speakers.

I'm looking for at least 75W for when I want it loud.
The Watt rating is no indication of how loud you can expect a speaker to play.

Plus, I'm sure I will want to get a third party sub later on so how will I go about connecting all of those together so I have separate volume control outside my desktop...I'm guessing a DAC or something with a out for a sub? I haven't noticed any in the links I've been reading in the forums so far.
Look for powered speakers with a volume knob and a line out. Then you can just hook the subwoofer to the line out and not need to fiddle with a DAC or external electronics.

One alternative is to get a USB external sound card with volume control. Then have two Y splits (one each on L and R) sending signal to powered monitors and a sub. This physical knob affects the system level sound on the computer. (This is how I have things.)

A completely different approach will be to get an DAC+Amp like Nuforce Icon-2 the with any non powered speakers. Now you send digital signal to from the onboard Sonar S/PDIF to the amp. This gives a physical volume knob and allows addition of a sub.

Yet another approach will be to get something like the Audioengine N22 or Emotiva mini amp with any non powered speakers. Here you send analog from the computer to the amp. This gives a physical volume knob and allows addition of a sub.

All options have their pros and cons. You need to figure out what are your priorities.
 
T

Trace79

Enthusiast
@ShadyJ and Agarwalro,
Thank you both for answering my questions and giving me some different examples on how to go about things. One thing you both mentioned is that I can't accurately measure how loud a speaker can be based off the watts. Is there another indicator I can go off of?

Based on the examples given I have a decent understanding of what to look for as a total system, based on how each speaker is configured and wired. The Mackie's footprint are just too big unfortunately so will have to go somewhat smaller. I think I'll settle on a 5"-6" driver for the speakers and pick up a sub in the future.

I'll keep looking online and post what I find for tips on what to get. Again, any favorites as far as loud and crisp monitors are welcome, I'm open to suggestions. I'll probably make my decision on popularity with the pros and compatibility to future endeavors...as well as availability of sales prices on black friday :).
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
There isn't much of a way to tell how loud they get unless you knew certain facts about the drivers. I can tell you that 4" woofer speakers or smaller will have a hard time staying clean at loud levels, especially if you run them full range. Type of drivers can indicate the dynamic range as well. For example the ribbon tweeters like the Emotiva monitors don't have a great reputation for big output levels, however you will not be sitting far from them so that probably won't be a concern for you. Ribbon tweeters do have a reputation for being very detailed. On the other hand, Compression Drivers like you see in horn-loaded tweeters of Klipsch speakers are known for staying clean at extreme volume levels. You won't find those kind of tweeters in studio monitors though.
 
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